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Kingdom of Romania - Tech Tree Suggestion


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doriansky1 #21 Posted 07 January 2020 - 08:44 PM

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Bring them all, the game needs new content. I'm quite sure at some point we are going to have romanian, hungarian, iugoslavian ,etc. tanks in the game.

Amusing to see the comments about the tanks not being produced when most of them actually existed. Check chinese TD line before writing on the forum.



Catalin9732 #22 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:39 PM

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View PostChristOfTheAbyss, on 06 January 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

Copies of russian tanks, no thank you.

 

View Postthe_nebuchadnezzar, on 06 January 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

Most romanian players are free riders so I don't see WG investing much resources into a line that won't return too much cash. 

Plus, most of the tanks are just russian copies so whould bring nothing new to the game.

PS: Before you say anything, I'm romanian...

Where are the Russian copies?

There are some T-34s there, the T34-85RT34E-120T34E-150, but if you look in the explained sections none of those tanks were like their Russian counterparts, they had different turrets and guns. Making them basically a completly different tank. I would have avoided using them if Romania had a general line of battle tanks, but their focus and original designs were in Tank Destroyers while for battle tanks they mostly used T-3 N, R-4 and T-4 H.

 

ThR35/T-26 for example is neither an R35 nor a T-26 and Vanatorul de Care R-35 even more so despite being an R35 with a T-26 gun if you don't take into account the mantlet, transmission, wheels and other secondary modifications. It has the superior armor of R35 and the superior gun of T-26 while having low recoil, the way I see it, is superior to both R35 and T-26An improvisation by taking different parts from already existing tanks still leads to a new tank that doesn't exist in other nations.

 

 

But I really don't see how you come to the conclusion that most of these tanks are Russian copies. I explained how 3 of them that have T-34 in name are not, but most, really?

 

I considered adding the T-34s as heavy due to the turret modifications, but okay, I made them medium.

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 06 January 2020 - 07:52 PM, said:

The Kingdom of Romania formally ceased to exist in 1947, and arguably in reality in 1940. so if you want anything in it above Tier I/II the line will need a new name.

I would have expected to see more German/Czech tanks in the line, given that Romania was an Axis minor ally for most of WW2

Fair point, how about only Romania than? That would include both Kingdom of Romania and Communist Romania.
 

View Postwolfsrain, on 06 January 2020 - 03:00 PM, said:

The first half is decent. But labeling the late T34 models as heavies... Just, no.... They were medium tanks and even those projects were naming them as such. 

 

From tier 8, most of the proposals are outside the timeframe that WoT is using. Again... i am against a romanian tech tree, or spanish, hungarian and so on, as you can't fill a tech tree with paper tanks or clones (though, WoT did it for the italians, czechs and polish, doesn't mean that we need more clones and fantasy tanks). I can accept an unified european tech tree, though. 

As I said originally, except for the ones with an *, those are original designs, I refrained from using clones as I could have simply listed the T-38 or unmodified panzers taken from Germany, but there is no point having the same tank in 2 tech trees.

 

I don't think the Maresal and TACAM series are paper tanks, these are what I consider "the stars of the tech tree", and not just me, the Romanian army during World War II thought the same, as said in the original post, the Romaian tanks are glass cannons, with a focus on speed and high damage but low armor. This is not the case for Maresal whose geometry allowed most of the bullets to ricochet while having a 122mm gun, but it stands true for most of the tech tree.

 

I changed the T-34s to mediums. I considered them heavies due to the turret that is more powerful than that of a normal T-34. The late versions of the Russian T-34 had a 76mm cannon which I lower than any of the Romanian conversions, but I guess it's up to the devs to decide.

 

"there are not enough Romanian tanks for a tech tree... why do something that is crapjust for the sake of it.." let's see:

 

My proposal had:

1 Tier 1 tank (could have also included Romanian FT, a modified version of the Renault FT but I found R-1 more fitting).

3 Tier 2 tanks + 2 premiums.

3 Tier 3 tanks + 1 premium.

4 Tier 4 tanks + 1 premium.

3 Tier 5 tanks + 1 preimum.

2 Tier 6 tanks.

2 Tier 7 tanks.

4 Tier 8 tanks + 2 premiums.

3 Tier 9 tanks + 2 premiums.

5 Tier 10 tanks + 1 premium.

 

I don't know man, seems quite a lot to me.

 

Not to mention that after Romania switched sides in 1944 and the communists took over they confiscated many tanks as well as many tank designs, most of which remain lost to history. But given that Wargaming is a Russian company maybe they have access to the archives.


Edited by Catalin9732, 07 January 2020 - 11:04 PM.


gitgud_cannot #23 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:41 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 06 January 2020 - 11:36 PM, said:

Zimbabwe?

Surely sir means Rhodesia?

:hiding:

yup :)



Bulldog_Drummond #24 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:55 PM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 07 January 2020 - 09:39 PM, said:

Fair point, how about only Romania than? That would include both Kingdom of Romania and Communist Romania.

 

I always think of the place as Rumania, but then I am so old that I talk of Ceylon, Burma, Peking and Bombay.



MeNoobTank #25 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:01 PM

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I think that is just a mis pronunciation of foreigners because we spell it Romania with O that sound like the O in "more" not like an U like in "Russia".

Catalin9732 #26 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:22 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 07 January 2020 - 09:55 PM, said:

I always think of the place as Rumania, but then I am so old that I talk of Ceylon, Burma, Peking and Bombay.

lol, you must be over 150 years old then. The word "Romanian (Român)" comes from "Romanus" which meant "Citizen of Rome". We used to be called "Vlachs" by foreign nations which meant "foreigner" in old Germanic and was usually used to describe the Romans. And the country was also called Wallachia, go figure, but we called it "Țara Romaneasca" which meant "the Romanian land". Tara = Latin Terra = Land. In the modern era other nations started to refer to us as "Romanians" as well but they used "Romanian" and "Rumanian" interchangeably, until the Little Union in 1859 formed Romania with "o" and the version with "u" faded.



Bulldog_Drummond #27 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:27 PM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 07 January 2020 - 10:22 PM, said:

lol, you must be over 150 years old then. The word "Romanian (Român)" comes from "Romanus" which meant "Citizen of Rome". We used to be called "Vlachs" by foreign nations which meant "foreigner" in old Germanic and was usually used to describe the Romans. And the country was also called Wallachia, go figure, but we called it "Țara Romaneasca" which meant "the Romanian land". Tara = Latin Terra = Land. In the modern era other nations started to refer to us as "Romanians" as well but they used "Romanian" and "Rumanian" interchangeably, until the Little Union in 1859 formed Romania with "o" and the version with "u" faded.

 

While all this is true, most people in the West used Rumania until fairly recently.



Nishi_Kinuyo #28 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:43 PM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 07 January 2020 - 11:22 PM, said:

lol, you must be over 150 years old then. The word "Romanian (Român)" comes from "Romanus" which meant "Citizen of Rome". We used to be called "Vlachs" by foreign nations which meant "foreigner" in old Germanic and was usually used to describe the Romans. And the country was also called Wallachia, go figure, but we called it "Țara Romaneasca" which meant "the Romanian land". Tara = Latin Terra = Land. In the modern era other nations started to refer to us as "Romanians" as well but they used "Romanian" and "Rumanian" interchangeably, until the Little Union in 1859 formed Romania with "o" and the version with "u" faded.

There was also the sultanate of Rum whose name is also based on that of Rome...



Bulldog_Drummond #29 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:49 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 07 January 2020 - 10:43 PM, said:

There was also the sultanate of Rum whose name is also based on that of Rome...

 

Indeed

The Sultan Rum Baba gave his name to the famous dessert



Erwin_Von_Braun #30 Posted 08 January 2020 - 07:21 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 07 January 2020 - 10:43 PM, said:

There was also the sultanate of Rum whose name is also based on that of Rome...

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 07 January 2020 - 10:49 PM, said:

 

Indeed

The Sultan Rum Baba gave his name to the famous dessert

I do believe you are both incorrect.

This, gentlemen, is the true Sultanate of Rum:


 


 

If either of you are rum drinkers and haven't tried this chaps wares, I can heartily recommend them.

:)



Johann_von_Goethe #31 Posted 08 January 2020 - 09:57 PM

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Compliments, a lot of work you did there.

I like this setup, although not Rumanian, bring it on :)

 



Catalin9732 #32 Posted 09 January 2020 - 12:21 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 07 January 2020 - 10:27 PM, said:

While all this is true, most people in the West used Rumania until fairly recently.

How fairly recently? You're the first I head to use the "Rumania" version and considering that everyone can have a map, I kind of doubt it, maybe that is the case in isolated villages.



VarzA #33 Posted 09 January 2020 - 02:10 PM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 06 January 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

 

I would personally love to see a Romanian tech tree (as folosi tot free xp-ul), but some of those won't work in WoT.

 

Particularly high tier light tanks with small caliber daka's, artillery that is on a truck chassis, though i would love to play the TR-85 at t10 (balanced accordingly).

However this won't happen, because it would take from the uniqueness of russian tanks, and WG has been pandering a lot to this particular nation .... historically speaking they will add new playstyle and niches to the russian tech tree, but they won't challenge an existing russian line and the TR-85 would be the only viable t10 medium tank, which would compete with the obj 140, t-62a and this will not be allowed to happen.

 

If we ever get a general european tech tree, we will get some of those tanks, but otherwise i doubt it.

 

View PostCatalin9732, on 09 January 2020 - 01:21 PM, said:

How fairly recently? You're the first I head to use the "Rumania" version and considering that everyone can have a map, I kind of doubt it, maybe that is the case in isolated villages.


It's basically the old writing that was used in the west, i think it dates back to the 19th century but in some countries/languages it has stuck around.

13:13 Added after 2 minute

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 08 January 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

 

I do believe you are both incorrect.

This, gentlemen, is the true Sultanate of Rum:


 


 

If either of you are rum drinkers and haven't tried this chaps wares, I can heartily recommend them.

:)


Nice trolling, i'm not ashamed to say i know who that 'chap' is and his history.


Edited by VarzA, 09 January 2020 - 02:11 PM.


Erwin_Von_Braun #34 Posted 09 January 2020 - 06:40 PM

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View PostVarzA, on 09 January 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

 

I would personally love to see a Romanian tech tree (as folosi tot free xp-ul), but some of those won't work in WoT.

 

Particularly high tier light tanks with small caliber daka's, artillery that is on a truck chassis, though i would love to play the TR-85 at t10 (balanced accordingly).

However this won't happen, because it would take from the uniqueness of russian tanks, and WG has been pandering a lot to this particular nation .... historically speaking they will add new playstyle and niches to the russian tech tree, but they won't challenge an existing russian line and the TR-85 would be the only viable t10 medium tank, which would compete with the obj 140, t-62a and this will not be allowed to happen.

 

If we ever get a general european tech tree, we will get some of those tanks, but otherwise i doubt it.

 


It's basically the old writing that was used in the west, i think it dates back to the 19th century but in some countries/languages it has stuck around.

13:13 Added after 2 minute


Nice trolling, i'm not ashamed to say i know who that 'chap' is and his history.

No attempt at trolling here :unsure:



Bulldog_Drummond #35 Posted 09 January 2020 - 07:50 PM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 09 January 2020 - 11:21 AM, said:

How fairly recently? You're the first I head to use the "Rumania" version and considering that everyone can have a map, I kind of doubt it, maybe that is the case in isolated villages.

 

According to Wiki, Rumania was standard usage in English until at least the 1970s.  Certainly all my board wargames used Rumania.  Here it is in the classic game, "Diplomacy":

 

Diplomacy map



Catalin9732 #36 Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:11 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 09 January 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

I would personally love to see a Romanian tech tree (as folosi tot free xp-ul), but some of those won't work in WoT.

 

Particularly high tier light tanks with small caliber daka's, artillery that is on a truck chassis, though i would love to play the TR-85 at t10 (balanced accordingly).

However this won't happen, because it would take from the uniqueness of russian tanks, and WG has been pandering a lot to this particular nation .... historically speaking they will add new playstyle and niches to the russian tech tree, but they won't challenge an existing russian line and the TR-85 would be the only viable t10 medium tank, which would compete with the obj 140, t-62a and this will not be allowed to happen.

Wargaming is a Russian company so having a certain amount of Russian bias is understandable, but I don't think they will go as far as not adding another tank just because it will compete with or have a similar playstyle as its Russian counterpart.

According to the wiki, TR-85 has:

Armor turret: 320 + 20 mm add-on composite armour (580mm of RHAe)
hull: 200 mm composite armour
Main
armament
100 mm gun A-308
41 rounds
Secondary
armament
7.62 mm coaxial PKT machine gun
4500-5000 rounds
12.7 mm DShK AA machine gun
750 rounds
Engine Model 8VS-A2T2M, 8-cyl., turbo charged direct injection diesel
860 hp (640 kW) at 2300 rpm
Power/weight 17.2 hp/tonne
Transmission THM-5800 hydromechanic (4 fwd, 2 rev gears)
Suspension Torsion bar with eight telescopic hydro-gas shock absorbers
Operational
range
400 km (250 mi)
Speed 60 km/h (37 mph)

 

While Object 140 has:

Armor 55–240 mm
Main
armament
100 mm U-8TS tank gun
Engine Model TD-12
580 hp
Power/weight 16.1 hp/ton
Speed 55 km/h

Not much data apparently because it was a prototype. But the data that is shows different specifications.

 

While the T-62 has:

Armor Cast turret[1][2]
214 (242 after 1972) mm turret front[3][1][2]
153 mm turret sides[3][1][2]
97 mm turret rear[3][1][2]
40 mm turret roof[3][1][2]
Hull
102 mm at 60° hull front[3][1][2]
79 mm hull upper sides[3][1][2]
15 mm hull lower sides[3][1][2]
46 mm at 0° hull rear[3][1][2]
20 mm hull bottom[3][1][2]
31 mm hull roof[3][1][2]
Main
armament
115 mm U-5TS (2A20) smoothbore gun (40 rounds)[3]
Secondary
armament
7.62 mm PKT coaxial general-purpose machine gun (2500 rounds)
12.7 mm DShK 1938/46 antiaircraft heavy machine gun (optional until T-62 Obr.1972)[4]
Engine V-55 12-cylinder 4-stroke one-chamber 38.88 liter water-cooled diesel
581 hp (433 kW) at 2,000 rpm
Power/weight 14.5 hp/tonne (10.8 kW/tonne)
Suspension torsion bar
Ground clearance 425 mm (16.7 in)[4]
Fuel capacity 960 l[4]
1360 l with two 200-liter extra fuel tanks[4]
Operational
range
450 km (280 mi) on road (650 km (400 mi) with two 200 l (53 US gal; 44 imp gal) extra fuel tanks)
320 km (200 mi) cross-country (450 km (280 mi) with two 200-liter extra fuel tanks)[5]
Speed 50 km/h (31 mph) (road)
40 km/h (25 mph) (cross country)

Again, looks like a completly different tank.

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 09 January 2020 - 06:50 PM, said:

According to Wiki, Rumania was standard usage in English until at least the 1970s.  Certainly all my board wargames used Rumania.  Here it is in the classic game, "Diplomacy":

 

Diplomacy map

This is what I found on the wiki:

 

The earliest preserved document written in the Romanian language is a 1521 letter that notifies the mayor of Brașov about an imminent attack by the Turks. This document, known as Neacșu's Letter, is also notable for having the first occurrence of "Romanian" in a Romanian text, Wallachia being called here the Romanian Land, Țeara Rumânească (Țeara < Latin Terra = land). As in the case of the ethnonym "român/rumân", Romanian documents use both forms, Țara Românească and Țara Rumânească, for the country name.

The name "Romania" (România) was first brought to Paris by young Romanian intellectuals in the 1840s, where it was spelled "Roumanie" in order to differentiate Romanians (fr.: Roumains) from Romans (fr.: Romains). The French spelling version (Roumanie) spread then over many countries, such as Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany. In English, the name of the country was originally borrowed from French "Roumania" ("Roumanie, then evolved into "Rumania", but was eventually replaced after World War II by the name used officially: "Romania". With a few exceptions such as English and Hungarian ("Románia, in most languages, the "u" form is still used (German and Swedish: Rumänien; Serbian: Rumunija, Polish: Rumunia, etc). In Portuguese, to distinguish them from the Romans, the Romanians are called romenos and their country Roménia. The e reflects the distinct quality of the Romanian â, even though it's not very similar.

 

It says "Romania" was standard usage in English since World War II.



Bulldog_Drummond #37 Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:14 AM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 10 January 2020 - 12:11 AM, said:

 

 

It says "Romania" was standard usage in English since World War II.

 

Look more closely, old boy



Catalin9732 #38 Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:15 AM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 10 January 2020 - 12:14 AM, said:

Look more closely, old boy

Be more specific, young boy



Bulldog_Drummond #39 Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:17 AM

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View PostCatalin9732, on 10 January 2020 - 12:15 AM, said:

Be more specific, young boy

 

By all means, Sir

Read Wikipaedia more carefully.

You will always find it a good rule in life to verify your references



Catalin9732 #40 Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:27 AM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 10 January 2020 - 12:17 AM, said:

By all means, Sir

Read Wikipaedia more carefully.

You will always find it a good rule in life to verify your references

By all means, Sir
If you have something to say just say it.
This is not what being specific means, do you have or do you not have something to point out that wikipedia paragraph is wrong? If you do, point out where and how, if you don't, you probably know how useful a blank statement is.






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