Jump to content


The big WV (Wheeled Vehicles) discussion thread

wheeled vehicle WV wheelies wheelchairs

  • Please log in to reply
3271 replies to this topic

Gardar7 #1 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:21 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 25466 battles
  • 2,533
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011

I would like to make a new thread for wheelies the same way we have for arties - hopefully this will decrease the amount of new threads about WV daily and help players to find answers for their questions about this type of vehicles.

So let's start:

 

Hi all!

 

Since wheelies is always a hot topic please use this thread to discuss your WV related thoughts/concerns/suggestions.



Persekettu #2 Posted 07 January 2020 - 12:01 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 25943 battles
  • 8,070
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
Looking at the front page, the threads about WVs have certainly made all other threads redundant.

Homer_J #3 Posted 07 January 2020 - 12:53 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 33999 battles
  • 38,750
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View Postjack_timber, on 07 January 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

When you look at this forum I would swear that I was reading the Nintendo forum for Mario karts....

Yes make it one pinned thread and be done with it!

 

 

I just counted up and there are five WV related threads on the first page of General discussion out of 45 non pinned threads.

 

I don't think that's a deluge.
11:57 Added after 3 minute

And moderator hat on.  Can we discuss the need for a pinned thread without getting hot and bothered.

 

Everyone has their own views and it would actually be nice to find out what they are and then it can be passed to the CMs again.


Edited by Homer_J, 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM.
Typo


Ratriq #4 Posted 07 January 2020 - 01:05 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6894 battles
  • 759
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    07-07-2013

View PostLethalWalou, on 07 January 2020 - 10:58 AM, said:

If you seriously think it's a joke, then you don't understand at all how they work.

Yes, I hit a an armored car with a big cannon when they are going in lightspeed only to have the shot hit the wheels which makes it so the dmg gets absorbed. Sure this happens for all other tanks but guess what? They at least then get tracked and become a target, the WV can just keep on driving like nothing happened.

It's even harder when the majority of their side is taken up by the wheels which makes it even harder to not hit the wheels.

It's funny since their wheels are absolutely absorbing penetrating shots and you're actually saying that that's just a myth, then, what does happen when I hit them clean only to hear the sound of a damaged module in return and a car driving which hasn't lost a single HP.

Edit: Cause of a certain forumite who got annoyed by me not editing this comment rather than reading my second comment further down on this same page, I'll paste in what I said in the second comment after getting corrected about the whole wheel thing.
"Okay, I stand corrected.
I will still stand by what I just said though. Even if you hit the wheels-"

 


Edited by Ratriq, 08 January 2020 - 05:18 AM.


Homer_J #5 Posted 07 January 2020 - 01:13 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 33999 battles
  • 38,750
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostRatriq, on 07 January 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yes, I hit a an armored car with a big cannon when they are going in lightspeed only to have the shot hit the wheels which makes it so the dmg gets absorbed.

 

No. That does not happen.

 

You hit the wheels and miss the hull completely, your shot goes into the ground.



LethalWalou #6 Posted 07 January 2020 - 01:38 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 36247 battles
  • 3,744
  • Member since:
    09-17-2012

View PostRatriq, on 07 January 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yes, I hit a an armored car with a big cannon when they are going in lightspeed only to have the shot hit the wheels which makes it so the dmg gets absorbed. Sure this happens for all other tanks but guess what? They at least then get tracked and become a target, the WV can just keep on driving like nothing happened.

It's even harder when the majority of their side is taken up by the wheels which makes it even harder to not hit the wheels.

It's funny since their wheels are absolutely absorbing penetrating shots and you're actually saying that that's just a myth, then, what does happen when I hit them clean only to hear the sound of a damaged module in return and a car driving which hasn't lost a single HP.

 

Yup as predicted, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

 

If you hit a wheel and only get a critical hit, your shots trajectory has not collided with the tanks hitbox where damage is taken. You have merely hit the the external module which is the wheel and it acts the same as if you hit the track wheels and the shot went under the tank, through the track wheels.

 

Here is a picture of EBR 105 demonstrating where you have to hit in order for your shot to connect with the damage hit box of the EBR:

 

Anywhere else you hit on the hull, your shot won't connect with the hit box, the exception being for the front where the front plate is at an angle that will autobounce calibers up to 120mm. Before you get all excited, I think I have a total of 500 blocked damage in 300 or so games. And regarding HEAT ammo, I tested it back in spring that even a 75mm pen HEAT will damage through the wheels and the side skirts, even at an angle. So there is not enough distance between the wheels and armor hit box to lower the shells penetration to not pen. 


Edited by LethalWalou, 07 January 2020 - 01:45 PM.


Ratriq #7 Posted 07 January 2020 - 05:20 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6894 battles
  • 759
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    07-07-2013

View PostLethalWalou, on 07 January 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

 

Yup as predicted, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

 

If you hit a wheel and only get a critical hit, your shots trajectory has not collided with the tanks hitbox where damage is taken. You have merely hit the the external module which is the wheel and it acts the same as if you hit the track wheels and the shot went under the tank, through the track wheels.

 

Here is a picture of EBR 105 demonstrating where you have to hit in order for your shot to connect with the damage hit box of the EBR:

 

Anywhere else you hit on the hull, your shot won't connect with the hit box, the exception being for the front where the front plate is at an angle that will autobounce calibers up to 120mm. Before you get all excited, I think I have a total of 500 blocked damage in 300 or so games. And regarding HEAT ammo, I tested it back in spring that even a 75mm pen HEAT will damage through the wheels and the side skirts, even at an angle. So there is not enough distance between the wheels and armor hit box to lower the shells penetration to not pen. 

Okay, I stand corrected.
I will still stand by what I just said though. Even if you hit the wheels but underneath the "hitbox" it should still count as dmg since how big the wheels are and by the fact that you can neither track these things or barely hit them, especially if you are a KV-2 player like me. (for the record, sometimes my KV-2 is loaded with AP)

If they are not going to get tracked and by the speed they are travelling in there should be some kind of downside, but there isn't when it comes to that, sure "worse pen blablabla" but that's it, these are mostly scouts anyway, they are supposed to do a good job on "scouting", they aren't supposed to be killer vehicles, only support vehicles.

Talking about the speed of the vehicles, you can't argue with this, even how much people say "learn to hit, etc" they are literally so fast they are one of the sole reasons the current wot matches are faster than ever since they spot almost half of the enemy team before you've even gotten into your position.

Even quickybaby have criticized this, the person who himself have defended a lot of WG bs like the defender.


Edited by Ratriq, 07 January 2020 - 05:21 PM.


killer999death #8 Posted 07 January 2020 - 05:28 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 27513 battles
  • 751
  • [JHS] JHS
  • Member since:
    06-25-2011
IMO wheeled vehicles should have less firepower and accuracy on the move. Playing any tank with no armor (PTA, Leo, AMX, Sp-panzer and many more other lights and mediums) is a complete pain now and I dare to say pushed out of use. A wheelie can [edited]you up with HE pen so hard it's silly. 500 damage while at best you can return 300-400 if you hit the tier 1 size hit box.



I'd give them shitty pom-pom guns really. 

mrtvimarijan #9 Posted 07 January 2020 - 05:34 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 43860 battles
  • 942
  • [NOPAS] NOPAS
  • Member since:
    03-19-2011
Cars do not improve the gameplay in any way. And they actually make the game more predictable and consequently boring because usually, they can spot out the entirety of enemy team in the first 30 sec - so either you know all enemy positions or the teams don't spread out that much which makes gameplay more static. 
But at this stage, it doesn't even matter anymore because tier X is so boring to play and it gets even much worse in Advances and CW.

killer999death #10 Posted 07 January 2020 - 05:38 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 27513 battles
  • 751
  • [JHS] JHS
  • Member since:
    06-25-2011

View Postmrtvimarijan, on 07 January 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

Cars do not improve the gameplay in any way. And they actually make the game more predictable and consequently boring because usually, they can spot out the entirety of enemy team in the first 30 sec - so either you know all enemy positions or the teams don't spread out that much which makes gameplay more static. 
But at this stage, it doesn't even matter anymore because tier X is so boring to play and it gets even much worse in Advances and CW.



Know what's the best? Small maps. Enks getting spotted 5 seconds after match starts because wheelies are already bumper carting around the map 80kmh. Good luck being slow or a paper tank.


Also......Germans had wheeled vehicles like the Puma so we might be getting even more retard wheelies in the future. Grim times are ahead.



GodTank2 #11 Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:12 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11568 battles
  • 1,003
  • [RDDT] RDDT
  • Member since:
    12-14-2012

View Postkiller999death, on 07 January 2020 - 05:38 PM, said:



Know what's the best? Small maps. Enks getting spotted 5 seconds after match starts because wheelies are already bumper carting around the map 80kmh. Good luck being slow or a paper tank.


Also......Germans had wheeled vehicles like the Puma so we might be getting even more retard wheelies in the future. Grim times are ahead.

 

Ok , ebr spotted you in 5 seconds on Ensk then what? It cant do damage to you and it also cant spot no more because everyone is spotting for themselves. It also cant move around due to the lack of open area so in order to turn your wheels you need to go back and forth. 



voodoospirit #12 Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:16 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 31463 battles
  • 3,262
  • Member since:
    12-22-2012

u know that other regulars lights were already spotting maps in the first 30sec? i mean that's the case for the past 7 years?? or so? they go tad slower but they spot better..all in all, it s the same but the main difference, they dont have to be too close to the enmy to spot and get retaliation....it's safer.

wheelies are not spotters ( but the EBR105 and eventually the EBR90), they are blind, they are mainly flankers-firesupport and short/med reco vehicules......mainly firesupport....u want to spot with them? not their job, they are too blind for it and u didnt understood their main purpose... spotters...really.....

 

enks was already a fast spotting map with the old ru251, the lttb, even the old t50², even meds can spot in 7 sec the other side.... enks field is problematicc for 8 wheel wheelies, u have 80% to lose control, city is a no go too. regular light will be 200x more efficient (any regular lights will spot better and safer + pivot+ pen)

the odl RU251 speed was 80kmh (?) with the usual light view range ( 445m+) and german HE pen, never had people running everywhere crying about that.it was a painful active spotter..AT..... tier8... 

 

wheels: well with the rng, the shell can destroy only the wheel (eventually the wheel from the otherside), lucky for me if i drive them, unlucky for me if shot at them, RNG, same when i shot at t100lt/432 and boucing off the turret.. or when tracks absorbs my shots...i deal with it..

wheels destroyed: u might keep the speed (u had at the moment u got shot) but u can t accelerate or turn ( the more wheels are destroyed, the stronger are the effect)

 

aimbot: have yet to see one, it s an (extented)  autolock, if u get hit by a wheelie, u are still or moving very slowly, same autolock than the other tanks with just a wider area of locking , hitting targets mechanic are the same. in my meds, i autolock as fast as in my wheelies, almost as fast with my regular lights (more bumpy)

 

ammo: low pen (190ish) bouncing oftenbut the ammo reserve +small circle = well, let s give it a shot, HE are way slower +less pen than the german ones. dont recall, seems the gold ones are slow too.

 

no pivot: massive drawbacks in cities/narrow pathes, small bushes, precision moves. u feel that at tier6 (and now tier2?) already, always a pleasure to engage them in a city, they have a low chance to survive.

 

do i hit the wheelies on a regular basis ? yes... with fast med/light apcr at mid range or under, 400+m is too challenging, i wait them for a driving error to shoot them, sooner than later, their hard driving control will fail them, especialy on some surfaces, i know they will lose control because i know their weakness, i play them too. so far, the only tanks where i have trouble to shoot them are the ones which dont have fast ammo, i d say slow turret traverse but  i still manage to hit them with my t28prot.

 

do my wheels eat damages, yes but a lot of time...no...i bounce more often with my t100lt but peeps might complain this tank is too low (and too fast?) and should be easier to hit too....

 

my lttb is alwways happy to chase a premium wheelie and engage it. i usually engage in CC wheelies with my other lights too ( well but with those useless brits)


Edited by voodoospirit, 07 January 2020 - 06:47 PM.


JontysCorner #13 Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:38 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 12799 battles
  • 230
  • Member since:
    04-08-2016

View PostLethalWalou, on 07 January 2020 - 11:54 AM, said:

 

-The aim assistance don't make you hit more accurate.

 

 

Maybe not, but the significantly superior gun stats do.

- 100m/s higher shell velocity of any other t10 LT.

- half a second better aim time than any other t10 LT

- better accuracy than all but one (Rhm Pw.)

- 100% (or more) better moving/turret traverse/tank traverse dispersion values than all but one (T-100)

- 25% (or more) better post firing dispersion than any other (and only for Rhm Pw, its over 50% better than all the others)

- even 25% better accuracy of a damaged gun than anything else

- 20% higher turret traverse than the next best, all others are 34% or more lower even than that. 

 

Combine all that together and you have a tank that is so much better than everything else firing on the move than it really is broken. To say otherwise is simply ignoring the facts of the numbers. An EBR with 80% crew will likely be better than any other LT with 100% crew.



LethalWalou #14 Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:53 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 36247 battles
  • 3,744
  • Member since:
    09-17-2012

View PostRustybum, on 07 January 2020 - 05:38 PM, said:

 

Maybe not, but the significantly superior gun stats do.

 

 

Did I say those don't? The complaining is about people claiming that the autoaim is an aimbot and that it hits and pens every or most of the shots. It's not and it doesn't

 

And even with those gun stats, you still have to do the work with a lot worse pen than other tier 10 LTs, APCR with 190mm pen.


Edited by LethalWalou, 07 January 2020 - 06:54 PM.


GodTank2 #15 Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:57 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11568 battles
  • 1,003
  • [RDDT] RDDT
  • Member since:
    12-14-2012

View PostRustybum, on 07 January 2020 - 06:38 PM, said:

 

Maybe not, but the significantly superior gun stats do.

- 100m/s higher shell velocity of any other t10 LT.

- half a second better aim time than any other t10 LT

- better accuracy than all but one (Rhm Pw.)

- 100% (or more) better moving/turret traverse/tank traverse dispersion values than all but one (T-100)

- 25% (or more) better post firing dispersion than any other (and only for Rhm Pw, its over 50% better than all the others)

- even 25% better accuracy of a damaged gun than anything else

- 20% higher turret traverse than the next best, all others are 34% or more lower even than that. 

 

Combine all that together and you have a tank that is so much better than everything else firing on the move than it really is broken. To say otherwise is simply ignoring the facts of the numbers. An EBR with 80% crew will likely be better than any other LT with 100% crew.

Go and play EBR with 80% crew and see how good it is.



JontysCorner #16 Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:58 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 12799 battles
  • 230
  • Member since:
    04-08-2016

View PostLethalWalou, on 07 January 2020 - 06:53 PM, said:

 

Did I say those don't? The complaining is about people claiming that the autoaim is an aimbot and that it hits and pens every or most of the shots. And you still have to do the work with a lot worse pen than other tier 10 LTs, APCR with 190mm pen.

 

The main focus of all of this is WV's vs regular LT (and some meds), so no, they dont have any of this work to do against a maximum hull armour of 90 (some lucky bounces will come from T-100 and WZ-132-1 turrets but not that many)



WindSplitter1 #17 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:32 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 21879 battles
  • 4,232
  • [WINDY] WINDY
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View Postxx984, on 07 January 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

i mean, what is there to discuss? they are fine, and to be quite honest anyone who seriously thinks they make regular lights redundant is a bad player

 

They aren't fine.

 

The Tier VI has worse VR than the V while gaining only on reverse speed and minor benefits that are completely overshadowed by other vehicles in the same Tier.



Spurtung #18 Posted 08 January 2020 - 02:11 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 82933 battles
  • 8,499
  • [USSRX] USSRX
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013

View PostRatriq, on 07 January 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

View PostLethalWalou, on 07 January 2020 - 10:58 AM, said:

If you seriously think it's a joke, then you don't understand at all how they work.

Yes, I hit a an armored car with a big cannon when they are going in lightspeed only to have the shot hit the wheels which makes it so the dmg gets absorbed. 1 Sure this happens for all other tanks but guess what? They at least then get tracked and become a target, the WV can just keep on driving like nothing happened. 2

It's even harder when the majority of their side is taken up by the wheels 3 which makes it even harder to not hit the wheels.

It's funny since their wheels are absolutely absorbing penetrating shots 4 and you're actually saying that that's just a myth, then, what does happen when I hit them clean only to hear the sound of a damaged module in return and a car driving which hasn't lost a single HP 5.

 

Alright...I'm going to number this, because there's just too much misinformation on this post alone.

 

1 It's not absorbed, it passes through, as there's no hitbox behind it.

 

 

2 Clearly, you've never driven one.

I didn't need to check your account to make that statement, but just to be fully sure, I did check: 4 battles in the AM Gendron are not significant, but if they were, your 0% survival rate with 2 wins while averaging laughable results should have compelled you to be a bit more cautious while delivering your sentence.

 

Wheels get damaged, and there's a significant loss of speed and maneuverability. It doesn't come to a full halt, true, but the loss of momentum and temporary hindrance can, and often will, result in a prompt destruction.

 

 

3 I'm sorry you can't aim properly, but there's plenty to hit besides the wheels.

 

 

4 Wheels are being penetrated and damaged in the process, while the tank isn't. Do you need another drawing?

Or do I need to show you Obj. 907's front wheel that can be tracked while the tank gets no damage? Or its lower plate hiding a v-shaped hull? Or many other tanks with spaced armor that gets penetrated while the tank itself gets no damage? Do you really need to see all the examples of similar processes?

 

As an exercise, try shooting all but front and back wheels of any tank and not the hitbox behind it. See what happens? Suddenly your point can be used against you: "WV are the only ones getting a speed loss when wheels get shot while all other tanks take no damage nor get tracked! So unfair!!1!!111!!"

 

 

5 You really want to know what happens? Press play and watch the following minute, it will explode your ignorant mind.


Edited by Spurtung, 08 January 2020 - 02:19 AM.


Spurtung #19 Posted 08 January 2020 - 02:55 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 82933 battles
  • 8,499
  • [USSRX] USSRX
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013

View PostKarasu_Hidesuke, on 07 January 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

Anything really, to give us slower tankers in slower tanks a fighting chance. One option would be to limit the wheelies' DPM.

 

DPM...WOW!

 

You know you have a really shitty argument when the best you can come up with is that.

Did you bother comparing DPM of tanks, by the way? I did. Well, for all tier 10s, at least, as that's the most spoonfeeding you're getting from me.

Ready for the results?

Here we go:

The only tier 10 vehicles with worst base DPM than EBR 105's whooping 1950 are arties and Manticore. Period.

 

Bonus stage: when there's multiple tanks with a base value for DPM of over 3k, the most you can squeeze out of the EBR 105 is 2517 (and that's with a fully trained crew using food, improved rammer, improved vents and rammer directive).

[the improved optics, along with those previous settings, gets the VR up to 460m, from the base 350m, by the way]

 

So, kindly, STFU.


Edited by Spurtung, 08 January 2020 - 02:57 AM.


Ratriq #20 Posted 08 January 2020 - 03:24 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6894 battles
  • 759
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    07-07-2013

View PostSpurtung, on 08 January 2020 - 01:11 AM, said:

 

Alright...I'm going to number this, because there's just too much misinformation on this post alone.

 

1 It's not absorbed, it passes through, as there's no hitbox behind it.

 

2 Clearly, you've never driven one.

I didn't need to check your account to make that statement, but just to be fully sure, I did check: 4 battles in the AM Gendron are not significant, but if they were, your 0% survival rate with 2 wins while averaging laughable results should have compelled you to be a bit more cautious while delivering your sentence.

 

Wheels get damaged, and there's a significant loss of speed and maneuverability. It doesn't come to a full halt, true, but the loss of momentum and temporary hindrance can, and often will, result in a prompt destruction.

 

3 I'm sorry you can't aim properly, but there's plenty to hit besides the wheels.

 

4 Wheels are being penetrated and damaged in the process, while the tank isn't. Do you need another drawing?

Or do I need to show you Obj. 907's front wheel that can be tracked while the tank gets no damage? Or its lower plate hiding a v-shaped hull? Or many other tanks with spaced armor that gets penetrated while the tank itself gets no damage? Do you really need to see all the examples of similar processes?

 

As an exercise, try shooting all but front and back wheels of any tank and not the hitbox behind it. See what happens? Suddenly your point can be used against you: "WV are the only ones getting a speed loss when wheels get shot while all other tanks take no damage nor get tracked! So unfair!!1!!111!!"

 

5 You really want to know what happens? Press play and watch the following minute, it will explode your ignorant mind.

Hey, good on you for writing all of this trying to prove me wrong when you are practically ignoring what I said 4 hours later where I clearly admit I was wrong, but Nah, of course, that's very ignorant of me, clearly admitting something like that... :facepalm:

About you comparing my skills with driving a t2 wheeled vehicle, really that's what you're gonna go with? Do you actually think I play seriously and gonna play a lot with a t2 tank?... Cmon you've got better arguments than that.
You also really wanna go with the "If you can't hit a go-kart with the KV-2 you're bad at aiming" Really? The KV-2? The tank who has the worst accuracy in-game, one of the worst aiming times, one of the worst turret traverses, one of the worst shell velocities and lastly got a reload of about 20 seconds, really? Do I have to say more about that? Am I really the ignorant here?

Also about the "wheelies almost always getting killed when they get hit in the wheel", I don't know about you but I've seen and hit wheelies plenty of times where they get hit in the wheel and retreat to safety since they were just quickly going up on a hill, times where a normal light tank would've easily been killed. I've seen them escaping more times than them getting killed for a broken wheel.
It's already hard to hit them for the majority of the player base, we also have to worry about a go-kart going up and down in a ridiculously speed with the fact that we not only have to hit them but we have to hit their floating hitbox since tracking them is not an option now. 

While I necessarily don't have a problem with wheelies perse, besides the fact that when hit, you have to also hit them also correctly since if only the wheel gets hit, they can keep on driving to safety undamaged.
My biggest criticism with them is that they are, arguably, an unnecessary feature of a vehicle. They are one of the sole reasons that have made the current wot matches end a lot quicker since all of the tanks get spotted a lot faster, thus dying a lot faster which is quite annoying when your playing slow tanks.

Even QB himself have complained about this, you know, the guy who has defended plenty of WG's bs like the defender.


Edited by Ratriq, 08 January 2020 - 03:25 AM.






Also tagged with wheeled vehicle, WV, wheelies, wheelchairs

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users