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Tournament times

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unlimlv #1 Posted 07 January 2020 - 08:00 PM

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Why the game times are so bad? if u want to compete in both lets say 1v1 and 2v2 at the same time , then u cant, cuz the games start at the same time for both tournaments ..5 min difference would give u at least chance to rush one game 

CLRG #2 Posted 10 January 2020 - 10:46 AM

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Hello unlimlv,


Thank you for your question. It is legitimate that you ask it. 


There are currently 28 tournaments per week. 


Frequent surveys to the players show that people have a clear preference for the tournaments being run in the evening (after 19:00, but before 22:00). When we run tournaments outside of this time frame, statistical data shows that the participation drops significantly. Nevertheless, we also give the option to play at 17:00 every day and also at 15:00 on the weekends.


With tournaments at 15:00, 17:00, 19:00, 20:00 and 21:00 there is plenty of options for you to participate in several tournaments per day without encountering a problem. The only time conflict you may have is if you wish to play at at 19, 20 and 21 and end up in a position to win all 3. This concerns a very small minority of players. 


With all this in mind, the tournament schedule is also not designed to allow each player to complete in every single competition. Rather, it is meant to give people as much freedom of choice when deciding which formats they like the best. This is also in the interest of the players. It means that even if there were a couple of teams so good that they could win everything, they would not technically be able to grab all the prizes. This opens the door to more variety in the competitions. 


I hope I have cleared out your mind on this, and more importantly I hope you win your next tournament games! ;) 


TijgernootTank #3 Posted 11 January 2020 - 06:54 PM

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Dear CLRG ,

In this new year , maybe u had some time to think about the tournament formats and maybe think back the way tournaments ran in several formats before the introduction of tournaments 2.0  .

Do you have numbers in actvity of players over the years ?

Are tournaments in any way importand to wot , or is this a thing thats become mandatory to run along the game , but no one really cares about it .

I see only at times the addition of some tank prizes or now the tournament missions , these are cosmetic extra's that dont take away the

general feeling amongst players that the formats are not good , and for regular players not in any way rewarding .

The return of decent group stage awards are needed , if giving tiny amounts of gold is not the policy anymore , throw in some other rewards like bonds or credit boosters etc .

The rewards need be spread around the group so players that have a bad start in tournament still have something to play for .

This to prevent teams from just quitting the tourney as no longer chance for desired prize .

This said , my opinion is that there is no good excuse for dropping out the tourney for such reason , and this is unfair for all other players and antisocial behavioure .

To further counter this there should be a penalty system for players similar to global map .

For any tourney format that has more then one player , RESERVE PLAYERS SHOULD BE ALLOWED .

You really need think about fully reinstating the option of reserve players .

Another option could be that players can collect points by playing tournaments for some nice rewards .

If you would reward already all the places in the group stage except last place , this could help prevent teams drop out .

In this system of collecting points , u could implement a feature like penalty points for not playing out the tournament .

Maybe a reward system that is somewhat similar like tankrewards -- or Clanwars -- some tournament shop where u can spend your points collected by playing tournaments .

I would like to see a tournament channel in game when active in a tournament , some more info in game and maybe always some mod present .

Why are the tournaments run like this for years and most regular players really dont care - so much more is possible if wot is willing to give some more priority to tournaments .

Like CW , some more use of other tiers is also needed , but this is not the biggest problem at this time .

CLRG #4 Posted 13 January 2020 - 05:15 PM

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Hello TijgernootTank,


Thanks for your feedback. First of all, please be assured that I have been reading your posts carefully, not just this one but the others as well in other threads. I thought It would be important to answer at least this one here, because I wouldn't want you to feel like you are being ignored. On the contrary. To be very blunt, you are one of the most negative voices on the tournament forum, and I care a great deal about what you have to say. 


There is a lot to talk about here, so first, let's clear out all your quick questions. Yes, I have all the tournament stats regarding the participation over the years, the rewards distributed etc. I was also around at the time of the tournaments 2.0, all the discussions around it, and I am well aware of all the formats we have used over the years. So I understand all of your points in detail. 

Also yes, the tournament scene matters to WoT. If it didn't, it would have been discarded. However, you do have a point. You have been around for a long time, and you have observed that other game modes receive more love.

Love in this case is more rewards, more development features, more manpower behind it. Why is that? Well, the tournament audience is only a fraction of the overall audience. So obviously, there are other popular game modes that legitimately concentrate more of the efforts. 


But let's talk about the core of the problem. The rewards, and the format. You already understand that I cannot increase the rewards. If I could, then would the format still be a problem? I would reward the group stage places, it would potentially fix everything. But I can't increase the reward pool. Right now, a Tier X tournament in 2v2 is 13600 gold distributed. This is a fixed amount to the top 16 teams, it doesn't change. If I'd reward the group stage, the gold would go to a fluctuating amount of players depending on the number of registrations. I'm not a mathematician, so bear with me for a minute as I run a rough example. :) Say, I have 1000 players, I would need to reward 500 (top 2 out of 4). It makes no sense to give them only 10 gold (I bet you would hate me if I did :) ! ). I would have to at least give them 50 gold, maybe 25 for the second place. That's already 50x250, and 25x250, so 18750 gold. Already more than the 13600 gold I currently am able to give to the winners. Imagine if I'd allow reserve players, I would have to take gold from the prize pool to reward them, too. 


Why can I not just increase the rewards? Well, it's a matter of gold balance and obviously ultimately a matter of revenue for the game. I don't need to remind you that WoT is a free to play game - it can only exist if the players purchase gold. So the amount of gold we give "for free" has to be controlled. And it is being controlled with statistical data and analysis. It is not enough to increase the rewards because "CLRG wants to make the players happy". That definitely counts, for sure, but it's simply not enough. I know your main talking point is always 2.0. But before 2.0, the rewards were unfortunately not sustainable for WoT. It may be unpleasant to hear (it was for me) but the 2.0 rework put the tournament scene in a state of balance. 


As you pointed out, there are alternatives to gold. You are correct, and I actually want to implement some of them. There are a number of issues with that too though. Mainly, implementing other types of rewards is most likely not going to be "on top of the gold". It's going to be "instead of the gold". And I'm not so sure you will want that. A lot of the players wouldn't be happy if the gold turned into personal reserves and boosters, and I'm not sure bonds would work either. Again - the value of the bonds will probably mean some gold removed. Naturally, I would prefer the bonds to be what you called "cosmetic extra". To give you some juicy information, I would like to offer premium days as a reward in the coming weeks, and if that works, bonds are on the list soon after that, too. 


Now you mentioned the premium tanks and the missions. For you they are just cosmetic extras. But on my side, I simply call them extras. Because these are actual rewards that are "on top of the gold". They represent "a cost" that is fairly substantial. And even though to you they look unattractive, the data shows that participation to the tournaments has actually been extremely high whenever I ran those operations. Even the missions are shaping out to be a big success in terms of turnout. The rewards aren't amazing at all, but they give the tournaments another purpose, bring in some new recruits, and overall make the competitions appealing. For me it's all very positive, and I am truly satisfied that I was able to offer those events, especially the advent calendar tournaments that lasted for several weeks. It gave the players so many opportunities to get those nice tanks.


I am glad that you suggested "collecting points" as a means to followup on performance over time, because it means we share the same vision and expectations about the tournaments. This is something I have wanted to explore for a long time, how great it would be to be able to track the participation and performance of the teams over time, and reward them accordingly. Needless to say, this is a topic that has been on the table for a while, but it falls under the current "needs a new feature" factor. This is one of the things that may happen at some point, but not in the immediate future.


That's it for the negative side. The improvements in terms of features are indeed slow to arrive. But one thing I want to bring your attention to is how the tournaments have also improved since 2.0. Just two years ago, we were able to run 9 tournaments per week. None of them on the weekend. Now, thanks to new development features, we are able to run nearly 30, including 10 every weekend. We are also offering a variety of Tiers and team sizes so you can play pretty much whenever you want. Even one year ago, in January 2019, we weren't even running a half of what we run now. The schedule has actually changed nearly every month as well, and keeps improving too. 

So for the negative that you point out, there is also in my opinion a lot of positive, that you are not taking into account. 


I'm not sure if you will be sensitive to all of the above or dismiss it as flim-flam malarkey, but nevertheless, that's what it is. It's difficult to give the players full honesty and at the same time expect that the answers please them, you know. ;)  


This is a longer answer than I initially intended, and yet there is so much more to say. But the bottom-line for now is that yes, I do think about the tournament formats quite a bit. I just work within a tight frame. But I definitely want to bring about new things, and I am fully open to suggestions in that regard - if you have ideas for formats that would be fun, bring a lot of people without altering the reward balance, I would be delighted to shamelessly steal your ideas make them happen. 





Edited by CLRG, 13 January 2020 - 05:26 PM.

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