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LethalWalou #21 Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:30 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 January 2020 - 08:10 PM, said:

They are better then light tanks at everything except sitting still in a bush. 

 

Most important.

 

They are more survivable (by quite alot).

They are way more maneuverable.

 

 

Or are other LTs just undepowered? Nothing changes the fact though that EBR 105 being used in CW doesn't mean it's OP for randoms. All it is is just the best choice for a role in CW.



GodTank2 #22 Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:34 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 January 2020 - 09:10 PM, said:

They are better then light tanks at everything except sitting still in a bush. 

 

Most important.

 

They are more survivable (by quite alot).

They are way more maneuverable.

 

Bad view range

Bad DPM

Bad Pen

Wheels meaning if you hit a building in order to turn you need to go back and forth.

No armor

 

How are they better than everything?

Have you ever played the the wheeled tanks?



RaxipIx #23 Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:34 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 23 January 2020 - 08:59 PM, said:

 

It's good for that in randoms too but it's not OP. It working in CW relies on the team play aspect of the CW battles. Randoms don't have that so the effect EBR has in CW battles does not translate with 1-to-1 ratio to randoms.

Did you ever see me calling them op? In fact even in the video it's called stupid, i will take a guess he means broken, or he would have called it OP, not stupid.

 

Tanks like FV and Deathstar are broken in my eyes, and they are most certainly not OP, ebr completely breaks some maps in my humble opinion, and the only true counter to it is another EBR. If RNG decides one team gets a tracked light, on an open map, and the other an ebr. Ebr team has a huge advantage considering both of them are at similar skill level.

 

But that's just me.



ZlatanArKung #24 Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:38 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 23 January 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

Bad view range

Bad DPM

Bad Pen

Wheels meaning if you hit a building in order to turn you need to go back and forth.

No armor

 

How are they better than everything?

Have you ever played the the wheeled tanks?

Bad viewrange - irrelevant, it is good enough.

Bad dpm - they are never in a dpm fight. So not a big setback.

Bad pen - shoot HE and you don't really care.

 

If you hit a building, you are bad at driving. 

 

No armour,  yet they absorb more damage then any other light tank due to size and wheels and speed (which makes shots miss).

 

They are faster, they survive way more stupidity then a light tank, they are easier to hit enemy tanks with, they are untrackable, they are pretty much impossible to turn over,



tank276 #25 Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:47 PM

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I will just give my 2 cents again.

Vheeled Wehicles are hard to play against , but not invincible.

You see some crazy EBR games online , but so you can of people with Progettoes or 277s.

Have only played a bit of the tier 6 and it is underwhelming.

You need 4 skill crews at least to make a difference.

Will eventually get the t10 via bluprints and free xp.



LethalWalou #26 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:02 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 08:34 PM, said:

Did you ever see me calling them op? In fact even in the video it's called stupid, i will take a guess he means broken, or he would have called it OP, not stupid.

 

Tanks like FV and Deathstar are broken in my eyes, and they are most certainly not OP, ebr completely breaks some maps in my humble opinion, and the only true counter to it is another EBR. If RNG decides one team gets a tracked light, on an open map, and the other an ebr. Ebr team has a huge advantage considering both of them are at similar skill level.

 

But that's just me.

 

Then they are broken in your opinion, fine. But once again, they are picked for CW for a specific reason and that fact doesn't make them broken or OP in randoms.



RaxipIx #27 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:11 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 23 January 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

Then they are broken in your opinion, fine. But once again, they are picked for CW for a specific reason and that fact doesn't make them broken or OP in randoms.

They are picked in CW because they are the most flexible, fastest, and pretty much best at spotting, and the gun is not terrible.   Not to  mention they are incredibly hard to get rid of even in CW where people are coordinated and know how to lead and shoot and where to shoot. And also  can't be tracked.

 

If that does not translate in randoms to a bare minimum very good tank i don't know what is, and the discussion is pointless from here on because it seems we  have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 



LethalWalou #28 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:14 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 09:11 PM, said:

They are picked in CW because they are the most flexible, fastest, and pretty much best at spotting, and the gun is not terrible.   Not to  mention they are incredibly hard to get rid of even in CW where people are coordinated and know how to lead and shoot and where to shoot. And also  can't be tracked.

 

If that does not translate in randoms to a bare minimum very good tank i don't know what is, and the discussion is pointless from here on because it seems we  have to agree to disagree.

 

No it doesn't translate to the randoms, simply because CW is a whole different environment.

 

And you can choose to agree to disagree but you are in the wrong here. They are better than some other LTs but they are not ''very good'' since they are not overperforming in randoms.



RaxipIx #29 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:21 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 23 January 2020 - 10:14 PM, said:

 

No it doesn't translate to the randoms, simply because CW is a whole different environment.

 

And you can choose to agree to disagree but you are in the wrong here. They are better than some other LTs but they are not ''very good'' since they are not overperforming in randoms.

CW is the MOST competitive environment, if it can perform there, you can be sure it can perform in randoms as  well.

 

 

If you can name me  a single meta tank(as in picked very frequently in cw) that can't perform in randoms i will send you 1000 gold.


Edited by RaxipIx, 23 January 2020 - 10:23 PM.


Warzey #30 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:29 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 January 2020 - 08:38 PM, said:

Bad viewrange - irrelevant, it is good enough.

Bad dpm - they are never in a dpm fight. So not a big setback.

Bad pen - shoot HE and you don't really care.

 

That's not true at all.

You can really feel the lack of view range, especially on ebr 105. If you don't max out your view range with vents, optics, recon, situational awareness and food you'll get easily out spotted by other lights and maxed out ebrs, of course you'll also have to take more risks when spotting. 

They're never in a dpm fight because they'll lose that fight every time because they lack DPM. Fortunately you have mobility do avoid these fights. It's a major inconvenience when you have to play around it all the time, it's also annoying when you have team mate in trouble and you spend eternity between shells. 

Ye sure, just use HE, miss half of them because you're moving all the time and do 20-40 damage with other half. Don't get me wrong, HE is very satisfying when it works, but that's not very often. APCR is only good for side shots and front of the paper tank, I mean APCR is not strong enough to reliably penetrate front of a T100, it's just that crap. HEAT on the other hand can deal with front of your average medium and medium/heavy hybrids, but it's useless against super heavies and if you get side shots it can get absorbed by tracks and other pieces of spaced armor. Take that E100 from the video, if he had his [edited]up against the mountain the only piece of armor EBR could penetrate with HEAT is turret side. So yea, all around wonderful gun. 


Edited by Warzey, 23 January 2020 - 10:43 PM.


GodTank2 #31 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:31 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 10:21 PM, said:

CW is the MOST competitive environment, if it can perform there, you can be sure it can perform in randoms as  well.

 

How many times do people need to tell you? EBR isnt used for its combat potential in CW. If CW field commanders could remove 1 tank slot and have a reconnaissance plane instead to spot they would use that. EBR is only used for early spots which help with positioning and advancements.

 

 

View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 January 2020 - 09:38 PM, said:

Bad viewrange - irrelevant, it is good enough.

Bad dpm - they are never in a dpm fight. So not a big setback.

Bad pen - shoot HE and you don't really care.

 

If you hit a building, you are bad at driving. 

 

No armour,  yet they absorb more damage then any other light tank due to size and wheels and speed (which makes shots miss).

 

They are faster, they survive way more stupidity then a light tank, they are easier to hit enemy tanks with, they are untrackable, they are pretty much impossible to turn over,

 

You said they are better at everything compared to other lights which is not true so what are you trying to point out?

 

350 View range is good enough for tier 10?

DPM matters in every tank, how else will you fight other lights?

HE if it deosnt pen will do 100-150 dmg. 150 DMG X 6 ( Shots per minute ) = 900 DPM. So again you do care. Pen is so bad you cant even pen a T-100 LT which is a light tank.

 

"Bad at driving" If they are fast enough for you to not be able to hit them with a tier 10 gun then they are not easy to drive. Even the smallest gap in the ground is gonna act as if your wheels are driving on ice.

 

"No armor yet they absorb more damage then any other light tank" Are there any stats of this or are you pulling it out of your behind? Wheels dont absorb dmg and it has been proven multiple times. If you shoot at the tanks hull even if it has 10 wheels infront its still gonna pen.

 


Edited by GodTank2, 23 January 2020 - 10:33 PM.


RaxipIx #32 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:42 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 23 January 2020 - 10:31 PM, said:

 

How many times do people need to tell you? EBR isnt used for its combat potential in CW. If CW field commanders could remove 1 tank slot and have a reconnaissance plane instead to spot they would use that. EBR is only used for early spots which help with positioning and advancements.

 

 

How many times do i need to tell you, other LT's are not used for it's combat  potential either. Yet it substituted the t-100(best lt before) in CW. Was the freaking t-100 picked for it's combat potential before? It was picked because early spotting and countering other tanks from getting in good position leads to wins.

 

Anyway, so i guess you would rate the EBR how? Mediocre at best? Useless? in randoms. Please enlighten me.

 

 



LethalWalou #33 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:51 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 09:42 PM, said:

Anyway, so i guess you would rate the EBR how?

 

Balanced



RaxipIx #34 Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:55 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 23 January 2020 - 10:51 PM, said:

 

Balanced

Just as arty, because  if we look at it from a global wr perspective, they don't over perform either.



LethalWalou #35 Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:03 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 09:55 PM, said:

Just as arty, because  if we look at it from a global wr perspective, they don't over perform either.

 

I haven't looked up arty winrate curves but what ever way they perform compared to the reference curve, they can be deemed performing in that way be it OP, balanced or UP. You can have your personal opinion about how they are for the game, but it doesn't change what the statistics says about them.



RaxipIx #36 Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:06 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 23 January 2020 - 11:03 PM, said:

 

I haven't looked up arty winrate curves but what ever way they perform compared to the reference curve, they can be deemed performing in that way be it OP, balanced or UP. You can have your personal opinion about how they are for the game, but it doesn't change what the statistics says about them.

True, hence i called them broken.



LethalWalou #37 Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:14 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 10:06 PM, said:

True, hence i called them broken.

 

Yes and I pointed out it being just your opinion and that it being picked in CW over other LTs is nothing to even mention about. Now we are entering a circle here.


Edited by LethalWalou, 23 January 2020 - 11:14 PM.


RaxipIx #38 Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:49 PM

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Ofc. That's why the meta tanks  in cw are centurion ax, 121 b, fv215b, bat clicker, rhn panzer wagen. Ty for enlightening me that for cw people don't pick the best of the best.      

Spurtung #39 Posted 24 January 2020 - 03:58 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 January 2020 - 08:10 PM, said:

They are better then light tanks at everything except sitting still in a bush. 

 

Most important.

 

They are more survivable (by quite alot).

They are way more maneuverable.

 

I'm sorry to burst that bubble but your total 175 battles with Light Tanks (62 in tier 1s and 113 in the tier 3 premium Toldi) make me very skeptical about any point of view you might have of the subject.

 
 
 

View PostRaxipIx, on 23 January 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

CW is the MOST competitive environment, if it can perform there, you can be sure it can perform in randoms as  well.

 

 

If you can name me  a single meta tank(as in picked very frequently in cw) that can't perform in randoms i will send you 1000 gold.

 

Watch the video in the OP.

You will notice the enemy EBR 105 not performing.

 

Take your time sending that gold.

 
 
 

View PostGodTank2, on 23 January 2020 - 09:31 PM, said:

View PostZlatanArKung, on 23 January 2020 - 09:38 PM, said:

Bad viewrange - irrelevant, it is good enough.

Bad dpm - they are never in a dpm fight. So not a big setback.

Bad pen - shoot HE and you don't really care.

 

If you hit a building, you are bad at driving. 

 

No armour,  yet they absorb more damage then any other light tank due to size and wheels and speed (which makes shots miss).

 

They are faster, they survive way more stupidity then a light tank, they are easier to hit enemy tanks with, they are untrackable, they are pretty much impossible to turn over,

 

You said they are better at everything compared to other lights which is not true so what are you trying to point out?

 

350 View range is good enough for tier 10?

DPM matters in every tank, how else will you fight other lights?

HE if it deosnt pen will do 100-150 dmg. 150 DMG X 6 ( Shots per minute ) = 900 DPM. So again you do care. Pen is so bad you cant even pen a T-100 LT which is a light tank.

 

"Bad at driving" If they are fast enough for you to not be able to hit them with a tier 10 gun then they are not easy to drive. Even the smallest gap in the ground is gonna act as if your wheels are driving on ice.

 

"No armor yet they absorb more damage then any other light tank" Are there any stats of this or are you pulling it out of your behind? Wheels dont absorb dmg and it has been proven multiple times. If you shoot at the tanks hull even if it has 10 wheels infront its still gonna pen.

 

 

I also love the logic behind "if you hit buildings, you are bad at driving, but if I miss shots on you that's also your fault because you're too fast".


Edited by Spurtung, 24 January 2020 - 04:10 AM.


NipplesTheClown #40 Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:13 AM

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most of them are fine. It's just the tier X that's crazy OP




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