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ST-II, worst t10 heavy. Change my mind.

worst t10 heavy

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snowlywhite #21 Posted 02 February 2020 - 12:53 PM

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dude, ignore the forum troll...

 

regarding the tank - http://forum.worldof...5#entry17286015

 

see the next post too. It's exactly as I imagined after I've watched enough games with it. Aka trash. The whole idea was a joke for anyone who actually plays st1.

 

@tajj - it's not an e100 or a 60tp. You have 2.5s "charging" without a real aiming reticle. I mean, reticle will change color if you hit an obstacle with one gun, but that's it. With way worse reload. And with many situations when you can't fire both guns anyway(you see the front wheel peeking from rubble, but you can hit it only with your left gun or stuff like that).

 

might become slightly playable if you could swap guns manually. This way at least you'd be able to play right hand side corners rather consistently. Kinda like tort, where you can play left hand corners because you hide the tumor.

 

I mean, a tank that can play "right hand" corners probably isn't anyone's dream. But at least there'll be situations when you can pretend you're a heavy. Because sure as heck you have heavy tank mobility :P



ChristOfTheAbyss #22 Posted 02 February 2020 - 01:03 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 02 February 2020 - 12:53 PM, said:

dude, ignore the forum troll...

 

regarding the tank - http://forum.worldof...5#entry17286015

 

see the next post too. It's exactly as I imagined after I've watched enough games with it. Aka trash. The whole idea was a joke for anyone who actually plays st1.

 

@tajj - it's not an e100 or a 60tp. You have 2.5s "charging" without a real aiming reticle. I mean, reticle will change color if you hit an obstacle with one gun, but that's it. With way worse reload. And with many situations when you can't fire both guns anyway(you see the front wheel peeking from rubble, but you can hit it only with your left gun or stuff like that).

 

might become slightly playable if you could swap guns manually. This way at least you'd be able to play right hand side corners rather consistently. Kinda like tort, where you can play left hand corners because you hide the tumor.

 

I mean, a tank that can play "right hand" corners probably isn't anyone's dream. But at least there'll be situations when you can pretend you're a heavy. Because sure as heck you have heavy tank mobility :P

 

That post actually were quite spot on. To add to it is the weak prem pen with heat.

 

If it had the mobility of the t9, it would be a lot better. Being slow super heavy tank with t9 armour, or actually worse when taking account the mantle weakspot, wont make the gameplay easy. Rarely super heavies are the support tanks, but this one is just that.



snowlywhite #23 Posted 02 February 2020 - 01:34 PM

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it's slower than st1?! Actually I suppose it should be given it should have lower pwt/w due to the additional gun... Anyway, from a certain point on doesn't really matter; if you get to 30/h or 35/h, you're still slow as f for t10 :P

 

anyway, it's hard to play a tank that's basically autoaim for t10 prem when not hull down. Plus I'm pretty sure that autoaim many times falls right on that driver hatch(guess the weakspot was kept on the t10 too?).

 

armor layout from '14 with proper weakspots and such. In '20 one tier higher. What could possible go wrong =))))

 

at least it seems to have good gun handling. That's something, given st1 gun handling.



Nishi_Kinuyo #24 Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:05 PM

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May I remember people that the Type 5 Heavy still exists?

Pretty sure that the ST-II is better.



ChristOfTheAbyss #25 Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:48 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 02 February 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:

it's slower than st1?! Actually I suppose it should be given it should have lower pwt/w due to the additional gun... Anyway, from a certain point on doesn't really matter; if you get to 30/h or 35/h, you're still slow as f for t10 :P

 

anyway, it's hard to play a tank that's basically autoaim for t10 prem when not hull down. Plus I'm pretty sure that autoaim many times falls right on that driver hatch(guess the weakspot was kept on the t10 too?).

 

armor layout from '14 with proper weakspots and such. In '20 one tier higher. What could possible go wrong =))))

 

at least it seems to have good gun handling. That's something, given st1 gun handling.

 

Naw I meant the t9 double barrel. Dont know about the St-I compared to the ST-II.

 

Gun handling is indeed great, but the accuracy feels extremely derpy.

13:54 Added after 6 minute

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 02 February 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

May I remember people that the Type 5 Heavy still exists?

Pretty sure that the ST-II is better.

 

It still has that stupid armour that carries the player. Looking at last 4 week performance, type 5 wins more than T57, AMX 54, IS4, 113. E-100 and E5. And I would definetely prefer all of those over ST-II, even E5. Atleast it has the mobility to make plays.



Solstad1069 #26 Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:30 PM

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I think its a good thing that the tier 10 tank not always have to be the best in that line.
Like the stupid french car tech line. Tier 6 is 100% trash, but step by step they become better the higher you go until you reach tier 10, the best tank in line.

ChristOfTheAbyss #27 Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:42 PM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 02 February 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

I think its a good thing that the tier 10 tank not always have to be the best in that line.
Like the stupid french car tech line. Tier 6 is 100% trash, but step by step they become better the higher you go until you reach tier 10, the best tank in line.


Plenty of lines where t9 is better than t10 fe., tier for tier. But there's difference not being the best on the line and being so trash there's no point to play it.



Kicky92 #28 Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:50 PM

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The ST-II is pretty good imo. Bought it on day one, played 8 games at 63% WR. (also played a lot of CT)

It is not as good as the tier 9 for sure, but it is not the worst tier 10 by a long shot. (looks at type 5 heavy)

 

 



snowlywhite #29 Posted 02 February 2020 - 04:22 PM

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the tank is pointless; that's the problem. If you want big alpha hull down tank there's exactly 0 reason to pick it.

 

you go with 60tp(which anyway is not a meta tank) and you have: way better armor profile + don't have to put up with the whole double shot "aim for 2.5s" bs.



24doom24 #30 Posted 02 February 2020 - 11:09 PM

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It looks pretty average. Nothing to write home about. I'd personally say it's better than the IS-7 though. 

Oldtanker68 #31 Posted 03 February 2020 - 09:01 AM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 02 February 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

the tank is pointless; that's the problem. If you want big alpha hull down tank there's exactly 0 reason to pick it.

 

you go with 60tp(which anyway is not a meta tank) and you have: way better armor profile + don't have to put up with the whole double shot "aim for 2.5s" bs.


Its faster, has decent armor and the ability to take lighter armored vehicles out of the game with doubble shots.

Single shots come in handy when you need a faster reload, just hold a shot in Chamber.

Decent gunhandling as well and a good alpha.

 

60 tp is slow lumbering and a huge arty target with crap gunhandling. Its not even Close.

 

In the right hands its a really good tank.

And another big gun on the Battlefield we didnt need.


Edited by Oldtanker68, 03 February 2020 - 09:07 AM.


ChristOfTheAbyss #32 Posted 03 February 2020 - 03:52 PM

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View PostOldtanker68, on 03 February 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:


Its faster, has decent armor and the ability to take lighter armored vehicles out of the game with doubble shots.

Single shots come in handy when you need a faster reload, just hold a shot in Chamber.

Decent gunhandling as well and a good alpha.

 

60 tp is slow lumbering and a huge arty target with crap gunhandling. Its not even Close.

 

In the right hands its a really good tank.

And another big gun on the Battlefield we didnt need.

 

The mobility aint that much worse on 60tp. Better p/w helps it to some extent. And I feel 60tp takes arty shots far better. The crew dies a lot on ST-II, same with the t9 double barrel.

 

In the right hands every tank can be played well, sometimes. The fact how often, is how good it actually is. Either its higher skill tank to play well than EBR 105 and I'm not good enough for it, or its just that bad.



splash_time #33 Posted 03 February 2020 - 04:52 PM

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anyone see IS 2 II like this? i see it like this...

shot_016.jpg 



ChristOfTheAbyss #34 Posted 03 February 2020 - 06:08 PM

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In continuation to this "In the right hands its a really good tank.". Was watching Dakis stream and he agreed that the T10 is trash and the t9 and 8 are fine. So one of the best players, especially heavy player, the game has thinks its trash. There's not many left for those "right hands".

Dava_117 #35 Posted 03 February 2020 - 06:20 PM

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View Postsplash_time, on 03 February 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

anyone see IS 2 II like this? i see it like this...

shot_016.jpg 

 

I see it like that far more than I should! :D



snowlywhite #36 Posted 03 February 2020 - 07:52 PM

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View PostOldtanker68, on 03 February 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:


Its faster, has decent armor and the ability to take lighter armored vehicles out of the game with doubble shots.

Single shots come in handy when you need a faster reload, just hold a shot in Chamber.

Decent gunhandling as well and a good alpha.

 

60 tp is slow lumbering and a huge arty target with crap gunhandling. Its not even Close.

 

In the right hands its a really good tank.

And another big gun on the Battlefield we didnt need.

 

that's a nice theory. Probably that's what wg thought too. Problem is reality.

 

1. it's not faster. Again, in t10, if you go 40 instead of 35 and have crap turret/tank traverse, you're imobile. Being... 5km faster while having 40% worse gun traverse is nowhere near the same. It's 10 times worse.

The traverse is gun very bad; for a heavy. It has worse gun traverse than st1. And st1 sure has bad traverse.

 

2. if you're in a fast paper tank and you sit there in the open till this thing turns it's turret and waits to trigger the salvo you definitely deserve to get blapped. That's why I never agreed with *hitbarn nerfs. If you sit there in a paper tank because you have autoloader syndrome... you should get punished. And if you don't stand still, this thing won't punish you in 90% of the cases.

 

3. you have the alpha only in some very specific situations - side, full lower plate, paper tank. You can't have the alpha when you actually have to hit a weakspot simply because 1 of the shells will go wherever.



Galan7891 #37 Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:39 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 03 February 2020 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

that's a nice theory. Probably that's what wg thought too. Problem is reality.

 

1. it's not faster. Again, in t10, if you go 40 instead of 35 and have crap turret/tank traverse, you're imobile. Being... 5km faster while having 40% worse gun traverse is nowhere near the same. It's 10 times worse.

The traverse is gun very bad; for a heavy. It has worse gun traverse than st1. And st1 sure has bad traverse.

 

2. if you're in a fast paper tank and you sit there in the open till this thing turns it's turret and waits to trigger the salvo you definitely deserve to get blapped. That's why I never agreed with *hitbarn nerfs. If you sit there in a paper tank because you have autoloader syndrome... you should get punished. And if you don't stand still, this thing won't punish you in 90% of the cases.

 

3. you have the alpha only in some very specific situations - side, full lower plate, paper tank. You can't have the alpha when you actually have to hit a weakspot simply because 1 of the shells will go wherever.


But you have the option to choose between Alpha and ...DPM(or whatever else you want to call it,since 2300 isnt that impressive)in the same tank.That flexibility shouldnt be free.



ChristOfTheAbyss #38 Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:44 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 03 February 2020 - 08:39 PM, said:


But you have the option to choose between Alpha and ...DPM(or whatever else you want to call it,since 2300 isnt that impressive)in the same tank.That flexibility shouldnt be free.

 

Well you pretty much said it, choosing dpm shouldnt be free, but you should GET dpm. Thats t8 level dpm. That's not flexible. 



FatigueGalaxy #39 Posted 03 February 2020 - 09:23 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 02 February 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

the tank is pointless; that's the problem. If you want big alpha hull down tank there's exactly 0 reason to pick it.

 

you go with 60tp(which anyway is not a meta tank) and you have: way better armor profile + don't have to put up with the whole double shot "aim for 2.5s" bs.


The point is, it's not a big alpha hull down tank - it behaves like your normal, 440 alpha heavy but with extremely good gun handling (almost twice as good as 60TP btw.). You have mediocre armour and mobility on top of it.

And this "average" tank, with really nice gun, has the ability to do 880 damage when it needs to. Sure, this ability comes at a cost but there is a reason why tier 10 TDs were amazing when they had 850 alpha and now they are just shadows of their former glory...

 



Pandabird #40 Posted 03 February 2020 - 09:26 PM

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It has a decent skill cap and is flexible for multiple roles and works on pretty much any map (it takes time learning to to preaim and predict and move perfectly for a surprise aimed double shot from behind a corner *and* making sure you have proper cover for 15 seconds afterwards). This makes it far better than i.e a Maus that could never turn around  from opposite part of map and make it back to own base and decap 2 capping tanks in a very short time span.

 

STII is not UP. It's not even bad. It's *balanced*. The outcry comes from it being Soviet, and soviet tanks have to be broken hurr durr mentality.


Edited by Pandabird, 03 February 2020 - 09:35 PM.






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