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New mission for Muppets


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kk40270 #1 Posted 08 February 2020 - 10:59 AM

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Lately iam playing with my tier 8 tanks and i have noticed that most of players in high tiers are totally useless. Games ends 3-15, 15-4 in four minutes and players barely can press "w" button. Also there is so many dumb players with reward / premiun tanks who can barely can make one shot per game, so the gameplay is totally s**t in there. I think this is going worse in every year. More and more bad players and no idea that they dont know nothing abaut gameplay.

 

Here is my proposal for u WG:

 

Create a new mission ( u can call is "i dont want to be a muppet anymore"). Hire some good players / streamers who plays every map with every tank class. Then make tutorial for every map so players can watch how to play certain map with certain tank. U must also add questions / problems where players must ask during the game. So they must watch that tutorial.

 

For example before game starts and u are in heavy tank.

1st question: Where u go in this map a: left side, b: behind the bush, c.right side?

When the game starts and u see list of enemy tanks and there is 3 arty / no arty.

2nd question: Do u still go to same place what u answer in first question? a,b,c options

Game starts and u have played 2 min and u achieve the heavy corner: 

3rd question should i move a bit forward or what. a,b,c.

And after every question that streamer should tell u why u must choose that option and why not choose others.

 

Make that with every tank class. Games should be normal games, not anything superunicum stuff. Just normal games with wins and loss.

And rewards should be like every other mission ( muppets dont go for tutorial if they dont get anything form it ). One tutorial watched and lets say 5 correct answer out of 10. Then u get 100k silver and some free stuff.

When u have watched every map tutorial for hevay tank and answer also 5 correct, u get a premium heavy tank. And maby a medal ( pro heavy tanker or something ). Heavy tutorial = prem heavy tank. Light tank tutorial = prem light tank. Like that.

 

U can also add advices, that shows how to play certain tank. Where are that tank weakspots, or how u should play with it. Then questions and then if enough right answers, some free stuff.

 

Ps. I would watch those tutorials also. I know a lot but there is more is what i dont know.

 

 

 



NekoPuffer_PPP #2 Posted 08 February 2020 - 11:11 AM

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It's time to implement skill-based MM.

 

Too many inexperienced players have been shoved into high tiers lately, with recruitment bonuses, blueprints, and xp boosters. Playing in tier 10 is like playing in tier 1.

 

If skill-based doesn't work, then at least make the MM sort players together into teams with players who have the most similar amount of battles played.



Strappster #3 Posted 08 February 2020 - 11:12 AM

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View Postkk40270, on 08 February 2020 - 09:59 AM, said:

... i have noticed that most of players in high tiers are totally useless.

 

It's nice to know I can still make an impression. :great:

 

As for your idea, I agree that better tutorials would be a good thing but I disagree on the nature of them. Any time you start telling people, "this tank goes here, that tank goes there" you remove flexibility and spontaneity from the game. Do you want every battle to run the same way? I can't think of many things more boring and more likely to drive players away.

 

Sure, a number of the maps are set up so there are only one or two sensible places to take your tank (El Halluf's brawling corner, for example) but that's a fault with the map design. Paris is another good example of a poorly designed map - lights go to bushes to spot, TDs go behind them, heavies go to the bridge. Every battle is near enough identical and it often comes down to which team gets the better RNG to force an advantage.

 

View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 08 February 2020 - 10:11 AM, said:

It's time to implement skill-based MM.

 

Only if you want player progression to stagnate.



TheDrownedApe #4 Posted 08 February 2020 - 11:20 AM

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It would be impossible to make well. You know as well as I do that one different tank out of the 30 could change your intentions at the start of the game. Then the loss of one tank quickly or other tanks going other directions changes the dynamic. 

 

Players need to learn team and map appreciation during a game, not at the start. But a lot just focus on that one En in front of them or that one spot they like going to immaterial of whether their tanks works best or they have support there. 


Edited by TheDrownedApe, 08 February 2020 - 11:20 AM.


unhappy_bunny #5 Posted 08 February 2020 - 11:26 AM

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How many tutorials are going to be needed? 

Considering there are 5 classes, 10 tiers per class, 10 nations, loads of maps, 3 modes (plus frontlines) and differences between vehicles within the classes (IS compared to O-I for example), and 2 spawn points per map, the combination of all those variables would keep a group of 30 Streamers and "good" players busy for years.

And what happens if those players disagree on where to go on certain maps? 

 

I must admit I would be interested to watch a battle or two between two teams lead by a Streamer, with analysis by each after the battles, explaining why they sent certain tanks to certain positions, and what went right or wrong. That could be both informative and entertaining.



mazinur76s #6 Posted 08 February 2020 - 11:31 AM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 08 February 2020 - 10:11 AM, said:

It's time to implement skill-based MM.

 

Too many inexperienced players have been shoved into high tiers lately, with recruitment bonuses, blueprints, and xp boosters. Playing in tier 10 is like playing in tier 1.

 

If skill-based doesn't work, then at least make the MM sort players together into teams with players who have the most similar amount of battles played.

 

It is rather time to stop to propose same solution every time, without argument. I think you should make argument. How it work with not so many players in game, what is limit for "same skill" in match, what about different tank class? Also consider consequence, will players not only play "strongest" tank to get advantage instead of getting better?

 

Would be nice if it worked. If-if-if. :)



Knuddelwolf #7 Posted 08 February 2020 - 11:47 AM

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View Postkk40270, on 08 February 2020 - 10:59 AM, said:

Lately iam playing with my tier 8 tanks and i have noticed that most of players in high tiers are totally useless. Games ends 3-15, 15-4 in four minutes and players barely can press "w" button. Also there is so many dumb players with reward / premiun tanks who can barely can make one shot per game, so the gameplay is totally s**t in there. I think this is going worse in every year. More and more bad players and no idea that they dont know nothing abaut gameplay.

 

Here is my proposal for u WG:

 

Create a new mission ( u can call is "i dont want to be a muppet anymore"). Hire some good players / streamers who plays every map with every tank class. Then make tutorial for every map so players can watch how to play certain map with certain tank. U must also add questions / problems where players must ask during the game. So they must watch that tutorial.

 

For example before game starts and u are in heavy tank.

1st question: Where u go in this map a: left side, b: behind the bush, c.right side?

When the game starts and u see list of enemy tanks and there is 3 arty / no arty.

2nd question: Do u still go to same place what u answer in first question? a,b,c options

Game starts and u have played 2 min and u achieve the heavy corner: 

3rd question should i move a bit forward or what. a,b,c.

And after every question that streamer should tell u why u must choose that option and why not choose others.

 

Make that with every tank class. Games should be normal games, not anything superunicum stuff. Just normal games with wins and loss.

And rewards should be like every other mission ( muppets dont go for tutorial if they dont get anything form it ). One tutorial watched and lets say 5 correct answer out of 10. Then u get 100k silver and some free stuff.

When u have watched every map tutorial for hevay tank and answer also 5 correct, u get a premium heavy tank. And maby a medal ( pro heavy tanker or something ). Heavy tutorial = prem heavy tank. Light tank tutorial = prem light tank. Like that.

 

U can also add advices, that shows how to play certain tank. Where are that tank weakspots, or how u should play with it. Then questions and then if enough right answers, some free stuff.

 

Ps. I would watch those tutorials also. I know a lot but there is more is what i dont know.

 

 

 

 

Would cost money and effort, ergo, WG won't do it.



4nt #8 Posted 08 February 2020 - 12:20 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 08 February 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

It's nice to know I can still make an impression. :great:

 

As for your idea, I agree that better tutorials would be a good thing but I disagree on the nature of them. Any time you start telling people, "this tank goes here, that tank goes there" you remove flexibility and spontaneity from the game. Do you want every battle to run the same way? I can't think of many things more boring and more likely to drive players away.

 

Sure, a number of the maps are set up so there are only one or two sensible places to take your tank (El Halluf's brawling corner, for example) but that's a fault with the map design. Paris is another good example of a poorly designed map - lights go to bushes to spot, TDs go behind them, heavies go to the bridge. Every battle is near enough identical and it often comes down to which team gets the better RNG to force an advantage.

 

 

Only if you want player progression to stagnate.

Agreed. To teach newbs HT/MT etc. spots on map in sense of you go there, you create just a bunch of noobs without any sense of map and team composition awareness. And that is the second most common type of teammate one gets in high tiers. It's not a few games a day on t8 to X where someone parks t28/t95/bobject into rear echelon bush and when adviced to use his armour to the benefit of team goes, 'stfu noob, imma td'... Or amx 50 series goes ham on heavy corner and dies. Just because 'it's a heavy's place, why don't you support?'

 

Thing is, no amount of teaching will help these people, because they have no will to learn. Their attitude is already set, they feel that they are entitled to be undetectable dpm monsters or unbreable slabs of armor rolling forward like their fave streamers. When their tactics invariably lead to defeat, they rage and lash, since their perfect YouTube/twitch- learned tactics didn't succeed, and it is always 'team's were tomatoes' or 'gold ammo' or 'wheelchairs' or whatnot.



clixor #9 Posted 08 February 2020 - 12:25 PM

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It's a nice idea, but unfortunately won't work. Someone not committed to the game won't watch tutorials. The underlying issue is simply lack of experience, now with XP being so easy to make, and with blueprints hardly even required players only have to play a handfull of battles. That's not enough to really learn anything specific about a tank(line). So what you are seeing is players are playing a certain class the same. So if you have a tank with decent speed and excellent turret armor like the kravagn you'd think you go to a ridge with meds instead of going to a heavy spot.

 

WOT is very much a game of trial and error. You just have to figure out with battles what works for yourself. 



gitgud_cannot #10 Posted 08 February 2020 - 12:26 PM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 08 February 2020 - 12:11 PM, said:

It's time to implement skill-based MM.

 

Too many inexperienced players have been shoved into high tiers lately, with recruitment bonuses, blueprints, and xp boosters. Playing in tier 10 is like playing in tier 1.

 

If skill-based doesn't work, then at least make the MM sort players together into teams with players who have the most similar amount of battles played.

To be honest, at this point i would not mind a skill based MM, because its just way too frustrating, finding yourself within tomato soup for 5-10 battles in a row, while opposing team has way above avg stats, obviously those games end up in steamrolls.

You might say gitgud and carry them, well if it was CS:GO i could do that, but not in this game, where a bunch of muppents can rush you without consequences.

p.s. not going to claim that i was the best player ever in CS:GO, but i was decent - floating in between of MGE and DMG(for those who knows the ranking system of CS)


Edited by gitgud_cannot, 08 February 2020 - 12:30 PM.


krismorgan #11 Posted 08 February 2020 - 04:52 PM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 08 February 2020 - 10:11 AM, said:

It's time to implement skill-based MM.

 

Too many inexperienced players have been shoved into high tiers lately, with recruitment bonuses, blueprints, and xp boosters. Playing in tier 10 is like playing in tier 1.

 

If skill-based doesn't work, then at least make the MM sort players together into teams with players who have the most similar amount of battles played.


Back in the old days i would have argued against this but now its one giant clusterf**k,its needed now!



shikaka9 #12 Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:04 PM

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this game dont need tutorials  , its very simple and easy to play

 

your team lost in 3 minutes? thats means your team didnt pay to win as much as enemy team

 

Simple :rolleyes:



Yaccay #13 Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:22 PM

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View Postshikaka9, on 08 February 2020 - 05:04 PM, said:

this game dont need tutorials  , its very simple and easy to play

 

your team lost in 3 minutes? thats means your team didnt pay to win as much as enemy team

 

Simple :rolleyes:


Well, it does not only question of determination.

Skills also matter.



Spurtung #14 Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:39 PM

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View Postkk40270, on 08 February 2020 - 09:59 AM, said:

Hire some good players / streamers who plays every map with every tank class. Then make tutorial for every map so players can watch how to play certain map with certain tank.

 

Your idea is a stillborn.

That is the worst advice anyone can get in this game, period.



NekoPuffer_PPP #15 Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:49 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 08 February 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

Only if you want player progression to stagnate.

 

You gotta be kidding me, I just said - boosters, blueprints, improved premium time... It's never been easier to progress to tier 10 in this game. Progression should slow down anyway. I'm not sure how facing similarly-skilled opponents alongside similarly-skilled allies could have a negative effect... Battles might actually last longer than 5 minutes. That's a good thing.

 

View Postmazinur76s, on 08 February 2020 - 11:31 AM, said:

It is rather time to stop to propose same solution every time, without argument. I think you should make argument. How it work with not so many players in game, what is limit for "same skill" in match, what about different tank class? Also consider consequence, will players not only play "strongest" tank to get advantage instead of getting better?

 

The argument is this: Progression is too easy, too many boosters/bonuses. Learning the ins and outs of this game takes longer with new mechanics (WV and 2-barrel tanks as example). Result; too many inexperienced players in the "end-game" environment i.e. Tier 10. Conclusion; severely unbalanced teams, 3-minute battles, steamrolls (15-0 wins/losses) across the entire tier range. Normal battles are rare.

 

Few players online: Broaden skill/battlecount range, try not to increase queue time too much. If two low-skill (or high-skill) players are in queue, send them to opposing teams.

Tank class: Try to find similarly-skilled/experienced(battlecount) players, distribute most similar ones to opposing teams, without extending queue time too much.

 

If finding similar players takes too long (more than 15 seconds for example) fill in empty places on teams randomly so players don't wait longer than normal.

 

The concept is straight-forward, you just need an algorithm to do it.


Edited by NekoPuffer_PPP, 08 February 2020 - 05:50 PM.


Strappster #16 Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:58 PM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 08 February 2020 - 04:49 PM, said:

You gotta be kidding me, I just said - boosters, blueprints, improved premium time... It's never been easier to progress to tier 10 in this game. Progression should slow down anyway. I'm not sure how facing similarly-skilled opponents alongside similarly-skilled allies could have a negative effect... Battles might actually last longer than 5 minutes. That's a good thing.

 

I'm referring to player skill progression, not getting up the tech trees faster. I agree that it's too easy for potatoes to get into higher tiers but then they always could simply by buying a tier 8 premium tank. There'll be another ranked season along in a while, I'd prefer if that mode was set up so that you couldn't farm top rank through playing hundreds of battles but had to demonstrate your skills against your peers to get promoted.



Bulldog_Drummond #17 Posted 08 February 2020 - 06:09 PM

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If you stick to low tiers then all is fine

Strange and bad play is normal and commonplace there

If someone plays competently then they will have exceeded your expectations

If they don't play competently then you won't burst a blood vessel through annoyance about how they lost it for your expensive Tier X tank



killer999death #18 Posted 08 February 2020 - 06:35 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 08 February 2020 - 11:26 AM, said:

How many tutorials are going to be needed? 

 


The ingame one is pretty basic with super dumbed down situations so that one does nothing, holding F1 and reading the quick guide does just as much. 


Sadly WoT is a game where if you want to understand things, mechanics, certain tanks and so on you need hours upon hours of youtube guides, explanations, tips and so on. New players do not have that much dedication to a game they just started playing.

Does not help there are veterans sealclubbing low tiers and players with Pz II J's and so on. There should be new player protection of sorts where sub 1000 battles don't play with people who have 30k+ but that's a dream situation.



tajj7 #19 Posted 08 February 2020 - 06:42 PM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 08 February 2020 - 10:11 AM, said:

It's time to implement skill-based MM.

 

It's not and it will never be, its not a solution anyway, its an inherently unfair system and it the game has already spent too long making the game easier for people who don't learn, SBMM would just make it worse.

 

The game needs its steep learning curve back and its harder progression system back, we need heavies with weakspots, maps where you can flank, TD positions that aren't in base and are harder to use, arty that takes more brain power to use etc. etc. 

 

Remove the dumbing down of the game and the easy mode progression and you'll force players to learn or leave the game. 

 

SBMM is just further dumbing down of the game, its basically saying these players are terrible so lets make sure they either only ever face other terrible players or there is always some poor good players who get lumbered with them and GG you reward terrible players with a 50% WR. 



NekoPuffer_PPP #20 Posted 08 February 2020 - 07:17 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 08 February 2020 - 06:42 PM, said:

It's not and it will never be, its not a solution anyway, its an inherently unfair system and it the game has already spent too long making the game easier for people who don't learn, SBMM would just make it worse.

 

The game needs its steep learning curve back and its harder progression system back, we need heavies with weakspots, maps where you can flank, TD positions that aren't in base and are harder to use, arty that takes more brain power to use etc. etc. 

 

Remove the dumbing down of the game and the easy mode progression and you'll force players to learn or leave the game. 

 

SBMM is just further dumbing down of the game, its basically saying these players are terrible so lets make sure they either only ever face other terrible players or there is always some poor good players who get lumbered with them and GG you reward terrible players with a 50% WR. 

 

You sound like you don't understand how a ranking system works.

 

Each player would progress to a certain level(no dedicated ranks, just a "league" or "range" they belong in, matched in battle based on their in-game rating or battle count, together with similar players) and then improve to a higher one over time, I mean over time as in, as they become more experienced, better at the game.

 

You'd be facing similarly skilled/experienced players - there'll be some you're better than, and some your worse than, but you'll all have a fair-ish chance against eachother. You'll see 5-minute battles less often - they'll be longer because teams would be more or less equally matched.

 

A steep learning curve doesn't do anything good. This is why you see people suicide at the start of the battle, because of things like -2 MM, or giving up halfway through the battle after half their team is dead and the enemy still has all 15 tanks. This is why people camp behind arty until the battle progresses, because they're either scared to fight (don't wanna get killed early) or in pure spite.

 

I agree heavies need weakspots, plenty already have them, except most of the premium ones...no going back from that mess. Removing premium ammo would be a viable option, if it weren't for the prems. Maps with less open space, more safe-to-traverse areas, and no bottleneck paths like the south road on Fjords... I welcome changes. Big changes.






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