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Ammo changes - the truth behind it


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NUKLEAR_SLUG #21 Posted 13 February 2020 - 06:37 PM

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View Postmutsami, on 13 February 2020 - 04:43 PM, said:

JAJAJAJ sure you mean the rest of the enemy tanks that are progeto tier 8 or lorraine unicums with max camo crew. Sure If you press tab after most battle almost all bottom tiers in +2 got no more then 500 dmg.... Its just trash matchmaking nothing a tier 8 can do to pen obj 286 tdf

 

Well there's your problem then. Try doing more than two shots of damage per game and you might actually win more battles.



PabloGee #22 Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:06 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 13 February 2020 - 09:18 AM, said:

 

That's cool then since I never did feel that way.

Take your Defender Ill take my 279 so you might understand 

 

 

View PostValkyrionX, on 13 February 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

immagine a 279, a maus , a type 5 , an is7 or other well armored tanks vs tier 9 and 8 in a normal random game.

 

Do the same with well armored tier 9 tanks vs tier 7 and tier 8.

 

And again do the same with pref-MM tanks vs well armored tier 8 and 9 tanks.

 

it is not difficult to understand that all more armored vehicles will receive a buff since they will have the same armor and the special ammunition of the lower tiers , and less armored tanks , will do less damage since the HP buff.

 

worst sandbox ever 

 

 

 

 

 

That's what I worry about. The gap between tiers will be unbearable. I know very good players will find a way in certain situation but what  about average and below ?  I think they do not understand how bad this situation will be for players trying to farm some credits. As far as I know WG I can predict you will have to double the time needed for credits earning. 

For years WG changes earnings in premium 8 tanks silently. Specially after crossing 2500 dmg done in the game the income scales much less then to 2500. I remember old days frequent games for 300 000 income. Now? Good luck. I can imagine avarage player doing 50 000 in his premium tank and loosing 80 000 in tier X. 



Homer_J #23 Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:19 AM

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View PostPabloGee, on 14 February 2020 - 12:06 AM, said:

Take your Defender Ill take my 279 so you might understand 

 

You take the 1 line I'll take the 0 line.  Just like ye olde days  when my Pz III had to face a Maus.

 

As bottom tier it's not my job to deal with you.  Deal with the rest of the team and then see how tough you are on your own.



8126Jakobsson #24 Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:29 AM

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I think the truth is that they wanted to lower the alpha of premium ammo as a balancing point but instead of doing just that they raised standard and health instead.

Because they didn't dare to enter "they nerfed my premium tank" world.

But then they nerfed HE which is even worse in that regard since the 2-key is just the 2-key while some tanks come with selling points as special HEP shells.

I think the truth is that they dun goofed themselves. 



Tom_Deekanarry #25 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:09 PM

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1 tier MM, problem solved

 



Gruff_ #26 Posted 14 February 2020 - 06:15 PM

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View PostTom_Deekanarry, on 14 February 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

1 tier MM, problem solved

 


some of us enjoy playing +/-2 mm



Palora #27 Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:49 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 13 February 2020 - 04:51 PM, said:

 

immagine a 279, a maus , a type 5 , an is7 or other well armored tanks vs tier 9 and 8 in a normal random game.

 

Do the same with well armored tier 9 tanks vs tier 7 and tier 8.

 

And again do the same with pref-MM tanks vs well armored tier 8 and 9 tanks.

 

it is not difficult to understand that all more armored vehicles will receive a buff since they will have the same armor and the special ammunition of the lower tiers , and less armored tanks , will do less damage since the HP buff.

 

worst sandbox ever 

 

 

 

 



The solution to that problem is targeted nerf's to said tanks. 
Since heavy tanks are some of the worst performing tanks (with the exception of the few broken OP ones) actually giving most heavy tanks a chance to be heavy tanks will help them game, especially when they won't be taking 200+ HE dmg per shoot in the strongest armor or worse 600 from gold HE.

 The ammo rework is a good change, just not enough, the damage differences between regular and gold ammo isn't large enough to matter, shoot 5 shells that will most likely do dmg or 4 shells that will bounce. This patch is basically a long needed HE nerf. If only it would affect arty more. 


Edited by Palora, 15 February 2020 - 12:51 PM.


Geoffrey_Ironfist #28 Posted 16 February 2020 - 01:22 AM

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View PostHellraiser0201, on 13 February 2020 - 08:12 AM, said:

My solution:


1.Remove special ammo entirely. Leave only 1 ammo type with armor penetration ablity (either AP or APCR)(standard ammo).

2.Nerf/rework the armor models of overarmored vehicles. Add actual frontal weakspots that can be penetrated with standard ammo adequately. Examples: Obj279e, Chieftain (turret), Maus, Type5 heavy, Defender and similar superheavies that require special ammo to be damaged... you got my point here.

3.Remove +2-2 matchmaker. Give us more single tier battles so that we can penetrate tanks from our tier.

After that, special ammo won't be needed anymore. Everyone would be able to penetrate all targets with standard ammo, provided that they have proper weakspots.

 

Im aware this is never going to happen anyway, WG is stubborn and never listening to its community, even if they give good ideas and proposals. Its just very sad. Nevertheless, cheers, comrades!

 

 

The problem is -2/+2 MM is there for people to spam gold at higher tiers, which is profit for WG. Making higher tier heavies harder to kill with weaker gold rounds and more HP means lower tiers will have to spam even more gold at the higher tiers. My estimate is a 20% loss of alpha from APCR and an increase of anything from 20% to 50% in HP pool. The KV-1 goes from 640 HP to 1050 HP for example. So WG is not interested in less gold spamming, they seem rather interested in more gold spamming and in people playing more heavies that need more gold to be spammed at. That's the situation as I see it.

 

View PostPalora, on 15 February 2020 - 12:49 PM, said:


Since heavy tanks are some of the worst performing tanks (with the exception of the few broken OP ones) actually giving most heavy tanks a chance to be heavy tanks will help them game, especially when they won't be taking 200+ HE dmg per shoot in the strongest armor or worse 600 from gold HE.. 

 

My understanding is that all heavies are more capable of carrying games than any other class of tank. Certainly more easily than SPGs, TDs and LTs. You can check the winrates of tanks here https://wotlabs.net/eu/tankStats Most best performing ones are HTs or MTs. The OP heavies are simply game-breaking.

 

 


Edited by Geoffrey_Ironfist, 16 February 2020 - 01:38 AM.


Overlord93 #29 Posted 16 February 2020 - 04:24 AM

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View PostTom_Deekanarry, on 14 February 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

1 tier MM, problem solved

 

Rest in peace people that play at 4AM



Hellraiser0201 #30 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:28 AM

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View PostGeoffrey_Ironfist, on 16 February 2020 - 02:22 AM, said:

 

The problem is -2/+2 MM is there for people to spam gold at higher tiers, which is profit for WG. Making higher tier heavies harder to kill with weaker gold rounds and more HP means lower tiers will have to spam even more gold at the higher tiers. My estimate is a 20% loss of alpha from APCR and an increase of anything from 20% to 50% in HP pool. The KV-1 goes from 640 HP to 1050 HP for example. So WG is not interested in less gold spamming, they seem rather interested in more gold spamming and in people playing more heavies that need more gold to be spammed at. That's the situation as I see it.

 

True. Everything they made is catered towards the profit. I am well aware of that my friend.

That is not something new. I have been playing the game since 2013 and understand its depth and WG's sneaky methods.

Unfortunately if these changes go live i'm done with random battle mode.

Saw a lot of others who said the same, "If this goes live i'm out".



NUKLEAR_SLUG #31 Posted 16 February 2020 - 01:33 PM

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View PostHellraiser0201, on 16 February 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

True. Everything they made is catered towards the profit. I am well aware of that my friend.

 

Weird isn't it, it's almost like they're a company trying to make a profit to fund their product and pay their employees or something..



Tealo #32 Posted 16 February 2020 - 04:52 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 14 February 2020 - 05:15 PM, said:


some of us enjoy playing +/-2 mm


If the old balance between tiers (power creep) was some how :mellow: put back to the way it was I would have no problem and would prefer +/- 3 or even 4 MM especially with scouts and arty.

 It would also be easier to get a game late at night (at any tier) and a more interesting one when I don’t sleep.



Nikka_Katajainen #33 Posted 16 February 2020 - 06:14 PM

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View PostPabloGee, on 13 February 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

Do you want to spam gold : well even worse news. Price of gold  will be so high you will be loosing money in your paid tanks.


I only had a brief look at the test server so I'm asking this - did gold ammo prices rise considerably? Or is the higher cost a consequence of people needing more gold shells to kill tanks (due to higher healthpools)?



Homer_J #34 Posted 16 February 2020 - 06:36 PM

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View PostTom_Deekanarry, on 14 February 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

1 tier MM, problem solved

 

 

We had that in the mode where you had single nations in a team and all it did was highlight the imbalances within tiers.



ThorgrimBrenadim #35 Posted 16 February 2020 - 06:57 PM

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Logically all wargaming needed to do was allow 3 boxes next to premium ammo hesh and HE and these would be top tier mid tier bottom tier and you can set within certain percentages the amount of ammo of that particular type. So if top tier you obviously need less APCR/premium for most but maybe more HE. If though you are bottom tier you would potentially need more APCR/premium ammo to help have a chance to pen thicker armour.

Mr_Burrows #36 Posted 17 February 2020 - 06:50 AM

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Anyone thinking this balance is not about WG earning more money is a tool. It has nothing to do with how the game plays, it is all about how much money WG can wring out of the player base and still keep us playing and paying.  

 



Ilknur_Ibryam #37 Posted 17 February 2020 - 07:06 AM

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The outcry on this one is enourmous. I dont see the change is a big deal. I was shooting mostly normal ammo and some times gold or he. So it is not changing my gameplay much. I doubt there are many people shooting mostly gold or he.

yodelihiti #38 Posted 17 February 2020 - 07:10 AM

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Aim is make all shoot more gold ammo

Aim of tree rework is to get people ASAP out of F2P into tier 6 to make them pay for premium account

 

Nothing more, nothing less.






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