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The new update changes so much...

game balance update

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Marcus_Helius #1 Posted 13 February 2020 - 07:02 AM

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Higher HP = more credits earned per battle.
More credits earned = more credits to spend on gold ammo.
Less damage with gold ammo means more gold shots fired.

Which means... MORE gold spam!?

And higher AP damage means LESS shots to kill a tank that you CAN penetrate without using gold...

Sure, gold ammo deals less damage now, but less damage is better than NO damage surely?
To kill an enemy tank you can choose to fire 6 shots of AP and maybe bounce 3. costing 6k credits.
or
Fire 4 shots of GOLD and bounce 0. Costing 20k credits...

Costs less time but more credits, nothing changed there... you make less trades and so receive less damage in return.

So nothing has changed to stop people just spamming gold ammo at higher tier heavy tanks... or at any well armoured tank...
One thing that has changed is those without premium accounts will be earning even less credits for having to shoot more gold ammo.

The biggest upset to game balance is:
Trading shots against a higher tier tank will be a lot more favourable for the higher tier tank that can pen you with AP and deal MORE damage, while you can't penetrate with AP and have to hope your gold ammo pens for LESS damage now...

Things have changed to favour higher tier tanks even more than before, with better penetration on their standard rounds that can kill lower tier tanks FASTER.
I feel that this is only going to accelerate the already 4min stomp games.

If 2 top tier heavies go down one flank while the enemy top tier heavies go down the other flank, lower tier heavies will melt in front of them because they are dealing WAY more damage now than they are receiving...


Edited by Marcus_Helius, 13 February 2020 - 07:03 AM.


shikaka9 #2 Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:08 AM

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AP is new HE :trollface:

KillingJoker #3 Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:36 AM

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The new alpha damage balance is only good for the game.

 

It punishes gold spamming by droping the dpm...

 

EXAMPLE: no longer gold spammers will have edge of advantage over other people who dont spamm gold over marking tanks, IE: people who spamm gold had naturally better overal damage per game and that resulted in better % in the gun mark system...

 

Now by increasing the AP alpha damage things change, spamming gold its not a matter of picking rhe most efficient way of playing like, because now AP gives better dpm to any tank, so you have to chose, either to play with RNG or not RNG, but also this rewards players who know armor layouts mostly. 

 

Players who usually are keen to fight with other tanks using AP and knoledge will have edge of advantage over lamme people who just want to dub the 2 key to win any engagement.

 

I just don't agree with the HE nerfs, because it will simply make many types of guns obsolete, people wont simply use them anymore, 

 

 



Homer_J #4 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:24 AM

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View PostMarcus_Helius, on 13 February 2020 - 06:02 AM, said:

Higher HP = more credits earned per battle.
More credits earned = more credits to spend on gold ammo.
[snip]
And higher AP damage means LESS shots to kill a tank that you CAN penetrate without using gold...

 

Wow, you got that all so wrong.

 

They have said the credit earning will be rebalanced and collecting data on how much rebalancing it needs is part of this test.

 

The higher AP damage is offset by everything having more hitpoints.



IamSalvation #5 Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:27 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 13 February 2020 - 08:36 AM, said:

The new alpha damage balance is only good for the game.

 

It punishes gold spamming by droping the dpm...

 

EXAMPLE: no longer gold spammers will have edge of advantage over other people who dont spamm gold over marking tanks, IE: people who spamm gold had naturally better overal damage per game and that resulted in better % in the gun mark system...

 

Now by increasing the AP alpha damage things change, spamming gold its not a matter of picking rhe most efficient way of playing like, because now AP gives better dpm to any tank, so you have to chose, either to play with RNG or not RNG, but also this rewards players who know armor layouts mostly. 

 

Players who usually are keen to fight with other tanks using AP and knoledge will have edge of advantage over lamme people who just want to dub the 2 key to win any engagement.

 

I just don't agree with the HE nerfs, because it will simply make many types of guns obsolete, people wont simply use them anymore, 

 

 

Plz tell me how to fight a 279E with AP. (frontal)

Plz tell me how to figth T10 Heavys (Type5 Heavy, Maus, IS7) when i am T8 with AP.



Bulldog_Drummond #6 Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:30 PM

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“If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change.”

Ceeb #7 Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:34 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 13 February 2020 - 07:30 PM, said:

“If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change.”


"The Avalanche has already started, its too late for the pebbles to vote"



Balc0ra #8 Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:35 PM

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View PostMarcus_Helius, on 13 February 2020 - 07:02 AM, said:

Higher HP = more credits earned per battle.
Sure, gold ammo deals less damage now, but less damage is better than NO damage surely?

 

Credits on test did not seem to have increased. If so it's not by much going by a 3K damage tier 4 game. Or with 6K in a tier 8 prem.

 

As for gold ammo? On most tanks it makes little difference. On mid-tier most have an insane ROF that you won't notice it. It basically feels like you low roll all the time. As the E25 had no issues still doing what he does. Tho... one issue is that you need more ammo to "carry" if you will late game on those. As not all tanks got an alpha buff to reflect the average % HP buff of their tier. An issue I did notice on the Turan III. On the St.Emil it was less of an issue. As his alpha gain is rather good.

 

 But again... it's a test. It's also to see feedback. Nothing is final yet. So if you have issues with it. Play the test enough to get the survey and let them know.



24doom24 #9 Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:48 PM

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View PostIamSalvation, on 13 February 2020 - 07:27 PM, said:

Plz tell me how to fight a 279E with AP. (frontal)

Plz tell me how to figth T10 Heavys (Type5 Heavy, Maus, IS7) when i am T8 with AP.

You fire gold.


Edited by 24doom24, 13 February 2020 - 09:48 PM.


IamSalvation #10 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:12 PM

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View Post24doom24, on 13 February 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

You fire gold.

Now read the post i quoted again



24doom24 #11 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:30 PM

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View PostIamSalvation, on 13 February 2020 - 09:12 PM, said:

Now read the post i quoted again

What other option do you have when WG pushes this to the live servers?



strezahuzum #12 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:43 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 13 February 2020 - 09:36 AM, said:

The new alpha damage balance is only good for the game.

 

It punishes gold spamming by droping the dpm...

 

 

I hope you remember this when you run into a Defender in tank with less than 220-230 standard pen. Unless you hit the cupolas (not as easy as people think) he can just drive in front of you, angle a little and a lower glacis plate is between 215-220 mm effective. Which means you will pen on average maybe half your shots, perhaps even less with AP. Meanwhile,  hope you can take those 440 alpha bombs he will be throwing at you. 

 

This update, if it goes live as-is, will be  significant indirect buff to heavily armored tanks and especially to high tiers. Imagine a 430U meeting a tier 8 medium. It will not be any sort of contest, just farming.



KillingJoker #13 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:51 PM

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View PostIamSalvation, on 13 February 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Plz tell me how to fight a 279E with AP. (frontal)

Plz tell me how to figth T10 Heavys (Type5 Heavy, Maus, IS7) when i am T8 with AP.

 

excuses... excuses...

if people only spammed gold on 279E's WG wouldn't be making this type of exchanges...

 

This type of changes are being made because players are lamme... first of all if you have a brain you wont be trading or siting of a 279E

secondly, you can still use gold to penetrate it... it will do the same amount of damage as before, the only difference is... if the 279E is a good player

he will use AP and wreak you to pieces.... 

 

Now... this update will reward players who play well ratter than try harders who are lamme... deal with it.

 

 

21:54 Added after 2 minute

View Poststrezahuzum, on 13 February 2020 - 10:43 PM, said:

 

I hope you remember this when you run into a Defender in tank with less than 220-230 standard pen. Unless you hit the cupolas (not as easy as people think) he can just drive in front of you, angle a little and a lower glacis plate is between 215-220 mm effective. Which means you will pen on average maybe half your shots, perhaps even less with AP. Meanwhile,  hope you can take those 440 alpha bombs he will be throwing at you. 

 

This update, if it goes live as-is, will be  significant indirect buff to heavily armored tanks and especially to high tiers. Imagine a 430U meeting a tier 8 medium. It will not be any sort of contest, just farming.

 

I usually kill defenders playing IS-6 and with AP only....

 

DO you know why?? becuase i am not stupid to waste shots on the hull, i just F! wreak the top the turret... and its not even that hard...

the IS-6 have better dpm and its tall enough to wreak any defender noob any time of the day...


Even easier when i play with my KV-5... because the KV-5 is taller... and the armor is trollish as F!..

 

usually i leave defender crying in the corner... everytime i see them... so next time, when i do more damage per AP...

i will make them cry FASTER.

 

So.. i am more than happy with this update.



IamSalvation #14 Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:18 AM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 13 February 2020 - 09:51 PM, said:

 

excuses... excuses...

if people only spammed gold on 279E's WG wouldn't be making this type of exchanges...

 

This type of changes are being made because players are lamme... first of all if you have a brain you wont be trading or siting of a 279E

secondly, you can still use gold to penetrate it... it will do the same amount of damage as before, the only difference is... if the 279E is a good player

he will use AP and wreak you to pieces.... 

 

Now... this update will reward players who play well ratter than try harders who are lamme... deal with it.

 

 

21:54 Added after 2 minute

 

I usually kill defenders playing IS-6 and with AP only....

 

DO you know why?? becuase i am not stupid to waste shots on the hull, i just F! wreak the top the turret... and its not even that hard...

the IS-6 have better dpm and its tall enough to wreak any defender noob any time of the day...


Even easier when i play with my KV-5... because the KV-5 is taller... and the armor is trollish as F!..

 

usually i leave defender crying in the corner... everytime i see them... so next time, when i do more damage per AP...

i will make them cry FASTER.

 

So.. i am more than happy with this update.

You have 8 Battles on IS6 and KV5... wonder why you dont play them more if you are such a OP Killer in them...



PabloGee #15 Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:22 AM

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View PostMarcus_Helius, on 13 February 2020 - 06:02 AM, said:

Higher HP = more credits earned per battle.
More credits earned = more credits to spend on gold ammo.
Less damage with gold ammo means more gold shots fired.

Which means... MORE gold spam!?

And higher AP damage means LESS shots to kill a tank that you CAN penetrate without using gold...

Sure, gold ammo deals less damage now, but less damage is better than NO damage surely?
To kill an enemy tank you can choose to fire 6 shots of AP and maybe bounce 3. costing 6k credits.
or
Fire 4 shots of GOLD and bounce 0. Costing 20k credits...

Costs less time but more credits, nothing changed there... you make less trades and so receive less damage in return.

So nothing has changed to stop people just spamming gold ammo at higher tier heavy tanks... or at any well armoured tank...
One thing that has changed is those without premium accounts will be earning even less credits for having to shoot more gold ammo.

The biggest upset to game balance is:
Trading shots against a higher tier tank will be a lot more favourable for the higher tier tank that can pen you with AP and deal MORE damage, while you can't penetrate with AP and have to hope your gold ammo pens for LESS damage now...

Things have changed to favour higher tier tanks even more than before, with better penetration on their standard rounds that can kill lower tier tanks FASTER.
I feel that this is only going to accelerate the already 4min stomp games.

If 2 top tier heavies go down one flank while the enemy top tier heavies go down the other flank, lower tier heavies will melt in front of them because they are dealing WAY more damage now than they are receiving...

Sorry but you have literally no idea what are you talking about 



Marcus_Helius #16 Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:11 AM

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My main gripe with the update is it is 'fixing' problems that didn't exist...
And the changes to the alpha damage and HP are especially unnecessary.

The problem I see now is higher alpha means more extreme difference in how much damage you can hit for, +/-25% is huge already, and now those damage numbers are going to be even more ridiculous.
And higher tier tanks, with better armour, more HP and now much higher alpha AP shells are going to dominate every game...

Robbie_T #17 Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:21 AM

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View PostIamSalvation, on 13 February 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Plz tell me how to fight a 279E with AP. (frontal)

Plz tell me how to figth T10 Heavys (Type5 Heavy, Maus, IS7) when i am T8 with AP.

Not....

Tier 8 heavy in a tier 10 match up should not be alone 

You job is being the second gun, to protect your tier 10 heavy  from  getting moved on after he fired.. or mediums flanking him....

or track the obj 279 and let your tier 10s do the dmg...

 

And type 5 heavy let him fire avoid his shot or use repair kit  and than drive next to him that your side and his side are bumping

(type 5 cant shoot down from the side if you close to him.) than teh dancing game starts  and than you pump his side full  with rounds)

(this wont work with the mutant :D)

 

What you can also do is RUN!! and hope your artys are still alive and just spot him (wont work against  my type 5 with 6 skill crew)

but...i think you dont even have to ask the arty's for shots on the type 5.

 

 

This is as last resort if you tier 8 that type 5 aint your primary job.

but but its me vs him....that means the rest of your team Fd up.

 

LAst week i played my E75 Ts in a tier 10 game artic region map

Spawned north went heavy side...in 2 min all my team heavys where dead..somehow i got away went back and hided next to the ramp (with 10%health)

Spotted the enemy heavys comming up the ramp..

saw 2 useless frenndly tds asked them for help got big inc here ..(luckely they affermatived me )they turned around   and my Fv4005 and t110e3 took them all out 5 of them just by my spotting next to the ramp.

 

And i must say that move won the game... and sayd i love it when a plan comes together (Ateam)

Not that all my games are like that i have  also games  where i say ....at this moment Robbie knew he F.... up 


Edited by Robbie_T, 14 February 2020 - 02:42 AM.


IamSalvation #18 Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:29 AM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 14 February 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

Not....

Tier 8 heavy in a tier 10 match up should not be alone 

You job is being the second gun, to protect your tier 10 heavy  from  getting moved on after he fired.. or mediums flanking him....

or track the obj 279 and let your tier 10s do the dmg...

 

And type 5 heavy let him fire avoid his shot or use repair kit  and than drive next to him that your side and his side are bumping

(type 5 cant shoot down from the side if you close to him.) than teh dancing game starts  and than you pump his side full  with rounds)

(this wont work with the mutant :D)

 

What you can also do is RUN!! and hope your artys are still alive and just spot him (wont work against  my type 5 with 6 skill crew)

but...i think you dont even have to ask the arty's for shots on the type 5.

Type 5 is easy to lure in to traps ....they think a puny tier 8 lets get him you run away and guide him slowly towards your tds....

at the moment the type gets into the trap he cant escape beiing to slow.

 

 

 

This is as last resort if you tier 8 that type 5 aint your primary job.

but but its me vs him....that means the rest of your team Fd up.

But my T10 Heavy might be a total bot that is camping in a corner... thats the Problem it does NOT make it more skill based, it makes it less skill based because you depend on your team even more. Especialy as low tier you already have to aim for weakspots with gold, now i don´t even need to bother with that cause i can´t pen anyway or get even punished with lower DPM and higher cost when i switch to gold to win the game. 

 

If they do +-1 MM i would be fine with gold ammo changes.



Tom_Deekanarry #19 Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:28 PM

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Has anyone considered how this rebalance will affect the 3 tier MM,  bottom tier tanks are having to fire gold to pen a lot of the top tier or even middle tier vehicles, the reduction in damage means you will need even more shots to destroy a higher tier opponent even IF they penetrate!

 

The simple mathematics of this will mean the higher tier player can just drive straight at the lower tier tanks knowing they are unlikely to do enough damage to take you out before you smash them!

 

So with this rebalance, are they rebalancing the MM to make the game playable for the bottom tier players, or should it be a single tier MM?

 

 



Mr_Burrows #20 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:53 PM

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I think it is quite obvious that those that think this change will be "good" for the game fail to see that this is only good for WG, not for the players or the game.  
If anyone thinks that "gold spam" will lessen, think again. Heavy armored tanks will just take more hits before dying. That is the only result. So gold spam will, in effect, increase. This simply because heavy OP tanks are still OP, now just with more HP and less susceptible to HE dmg, thus taking more hits to kill. And standards will still not cut it in oh so many situations, so... 

 

Oh well. Starting to get tired of the game anyway. 

 







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