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Answer Me This Question About Premium Tanks Legal Protection


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spuriousmonkey #81 Posted 16 February 2020 - 10:57 AM

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It says how to play at the start.

RaxipIx #82 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:00 AM

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And then goes on and details all the stats of the tank. An official WG video.
10:05 Added after 5 minute

 

Another video giving a premiums tanks stats.  Advertised official WG video.



CmdRatScabies #83 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:07 AM

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View Postspuriousmonkey, on 16 February 2020 - 10:10 AM, said:

You buy a digital good. For instance the valentine 2.

 

WG sells it with the following description:

This Soviet Tier IV vehicle might be classified as a light tank but has heavy qualities. Very good armour, a more-than-decent amount of hit points, and a relatively small size that makes it hard for the enemy to hit.

They does't sell it with specific stats. pen is this, armor is that.

They do this for all premium tanks.

The have a vague description of the tank that they are selling. They aren't selling its stats.

 

 

They publish the stats and get CCs to advertise it for them.  No argument.



spuriousmonkey #84 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:14 AM

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Doesn't say it is an advert. It is an how to play video. How do you think this will hold up in court? I don't think it will. If you want to buy a premium tank, you have to go to the website. Click on the tank. There is says what you get with the tank, and what kind of tank it is. It doesn't specific its stats nor that its stats are guaranteed till infinity. It says "it is a mobile medium tank with some armour." "A heavy tank with lots of armour" yadayada.

 

That's the store. That is the terms. Not some youtube video.

 

That youtube video is not linked on the store page. That video is sold as an assistance to players who bought the tank. It tells them how to play it at that point in time. That's how I interpret it, and I doubt that your viewpoint will not be contested.

 

Because tell me please, how isn't any of the old premium tanks not changed by the switch to HD graphics and the change of environment due to new physics and the change do environment due to introduction of new tanks creating a new meta.

 

Absolutely nothing is still the same with the old premium tanks and there hasn't been a single successful lawsuit. Not one.

 

To me it sounds like whining when people think that WG owns them something because the tank changed. Type 59 used to see tier 5 tanks. How is that not a major nerf that it doesn't play against tier 5 tanks any longer?

 

To me the matter is clear. You go to the store page. You buy what they describe. You get what they describe.

 

 

 

10:14 Added after 0 minute

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 16 February 2020 - 12:07 PM, said:

They publish the stats and get CCs to advertise it for them.  No argument.

good that you are a lawyer then.


Sue them.



Element6 #85 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:26 AM

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There is an interesting entry in the ToS;

 

Block Quote

 

8.3 We set out below the rules that apply to Virtual Goods:

  • a) Virtual Goods may only be redeemed for other Virtual Goods where permitted in the Services;
  • b) once you have purchased Virtual Goods, those Virtual Goods are non-refundable and non-exchangeable (whether or not you use them), except as set forth in these Terms of Service, or as it is required under the applicable law;
  • c) Virtual Goods cannot be sold or transferred to anyone, but you may buy Virtual Goods for another user of a Game through the gift shop applicable to that Game;
  • d) Virtual Goods cannot be exchanged for cash or any goods or services (except other Virtual Goods as permitted in the Services);
  • e) we do not make any promises about how or when Virtual Goods may be available for purchase and can update or change Virtual Goods available for purchase at any time;
  • f) you may only acquire Virtual Goods from us (or from any person that we authorise for this purpose) or from another user of the Game as a gift through the gift shop applicable to that Game, and you must not obtain Virtual Goods from any other person or in any other way or attempt to do so; and
  • g) we may limit or block a request to acquire Virtual Goods for any reason.

 

 



CmdRatScabies #86 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:36 AM

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View PostElement6, on 16 February 2020 - 11:26 AM, said:

There is an interesting entry in the ToS;

They could include a line that gives them your first born.  Doesn't mean they can do it. 

But apart from any legal issues, they want to sell premium tanks in the future so they have to be very careful and be seen to be fair.


Edited by CmdRatScabies, 16 February 2020 - 11:37 AM.


Element6 #87 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:47 AM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 16 February 2020 - 11:36 AM, said:

They could include a line that gives them your first born.  Doesn't mean they can do it. 

But apart from any legal issues, they want to sell premium tanks in the future so they have to be very careful and be seen to be fair.

Your first born doesn't have anything to do with their creation or development project. The ToS and EULA are both solely linked to their intellectual property, and how you use them, and how they need to make changes unless the product is to remain exactly as it was when you installed it, for all eternity. 

 

It's not like it is in any way unreasonable to alter parameters of a premium tank if it is done in relation to changes to all other content in the game. What would be very unreasonable is a consumer demanding a refund because a number was changed from 45 to 40, when a comparable change was done to all other content at the same time. The virtual goods is going to have the same expectancy, relative to all other content, as it had before the change. 



Cobra6 #88 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:48 AM

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Because *some* players bought premium ammo with actual gold (real money) so WG can't change the ammo until all of it for everyone has run out. Or they will need to refund.

 

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jabster #89 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:54 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 February 2020 - 10:48 AM, said:

Because *some* players bought premium ammo with actual gold (real money) so WG can't change the ammo until all of it for everyone has run out. Or they will need to refund.

 

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Yet the gold ammo I bought with gold got refunded with, drum roll please ... credits. I’m not sure I’d call that a refund.



CmdRatScabies #90 Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:56 AM

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View PostElement6, on 16 February 2020 - 11:47 AM, said:

Your first born doesn't have anything to do with their creation or development project. The ToS and EULA are both solely linked to their intellectual property, and how you use them, and how they need to make changes unless the product is to remain exactly as it was when you installed it, for all eternity. 

 

It's not like it is in any way unreasonable to alter parameters of a premium tank if it is done in relation to changes to all other content in the game. What would be very unreasonable is a consumer demanding a refund because a number was changed from 45 to 40, when a comparable change was done to all other content at the same time. The virtual goods is going to have the same expectancy, relative to all other content, as it had before the change. 

Most Premium tanks will come out of this neutral, a few will get a buff and a few will suffer from the changes to HE.  No one is saying they can't change the tanks, it's about appropriate compensation for the ones that are nerfed.  At the moment WG haven't addressed the issue - they might just be testing the water using the Sandbox to see it they'll have an issue.



Cobra6 #91 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:01 PM

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View Postjabster, on 16 February 2020 - 10:54 AM, said:


Yet the gold ammo I bought with gold got refunded with, drum roll please ... credits. I’m not sure I’d call that a refund.

 

Well WG never refunded actual money, they always refund in gold or the equivalent of the gold value.

 

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jabster #92 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:04 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 February 2020 - 11:01 AM, said:

 

Well WG never refunded actual money, they always refund in gold or the equivalent of the gold value.

 

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If I paid for it with gold I’d expect the refund in gold not credits. That’s the point.



Scabolcz #93 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:08 PM

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I never understood why they didnt already changed their terms, to allow for premium vehicles to be touched... I never understood that.

RaxipIx #94 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:14 PM

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View Postspuriousmonkey, on 16 February 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

Doesn't say it is an advert. It is an how to play video. How do you think this will hold up in court? I don't think it will. If you want to buy a premium tank, you have to go to the website. Click on the tank. There is says what you get with the tank, and what kind of tank it is. It doesn't specific its stats nor that its stats are guaranteed till infinity. It says "it is a mobile medium tank with some armour." "A heavy tank with lots of armour" yadayada.

 

That's the store. That is the terms. Not some youtube video.

 

That youtube video is not linked on the store page. That video is sold as an assistance to players who bought the tank. It tells them how to play it at that point in time. That's how I interpret it, and I doubt that your viewpoint will not be contested.

 

Because tell me please, how isn't any of the old premium tanks not changed by the switch to HD graphics and the change of environment due to new physics and the change do environment due to introduction of new tanks creating a new meta.

 

Absolutely nothing is still the same with the old premium tanks and there hasn't been a single successful lawsuit. Not one.

 

To me it sounds like whining when people think that WG owns them something because the tank changed. Type 59 used to see tier 5 tanks. How is that not a major nerf that it doesn't play against tier 5 tanks any longer?

 

To me the matter is clear. You go to the store page. You buy what they describe. You get what they describe.

 

 

 

10:14 Added after 0 minute

good that you are a lawyer then.


Sue them.

Ok i will bite. Fine .

 

Yet i can go in game, click on the amx cda , with the gold value of it, premium tank. And before i make the purchase all the stats of the tank is listed? No vague description nothing, it's all there.

 

Look

Posted Image


Edited by RaxipIx, 16 February 2020 - 12:15 PM.


Artick_ #95 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:14 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 14 February 2020 - 10:46 PM, said:

Hi guys, not a rant or another "HE change" thread it's just a question relating to altering premium tanks and their ammo damage values in general. Basically what I want to know is how is it ok for WG to alter one ammo type and apparently not the other? In other wards, why is it apparently NOT ok for WG to change premium ammo values but it is ok for them to change all other types? If this is a legal matter, consumer law, then why only does it apply to premium ammo values and not all of them? What's the difference here?

 

There must be something legally binding because it was when you factor messing up players stats with new hp values and altering pretty much everything in the game other than premium ammo, clearly it's far more easy to simply nerf premium ammo 20% rather than having to go to far greater effort of altering everything else. But what's the difference here? How is changing everything else not infringing on whatever legal status prevents WG from touching premium ammo values? Perhaps they could have altered premium ammo values all along if they really wanted too and this just coincidentally wasn't part of their grand plan which makes it appear as though there's some legal protection which prevents them from doing so? 

some country are eligible to refund. If your prem tank is changed ( in worse only aparently ) you may ask for your money back , eventough nobody would care :)


Edited by Artick_, 16 February 2020 - 12:14 PM.


Cobra6 #96 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:23 PM

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View Postjabster, on 16 February 2020 - 11:04 AM, said:


If I paid for it with gold I’d expect the refund in gold not credits. That’s the point.

 

Yep, that is logical.

 

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TungstenHitman #97 Posted 16 February 2020 - 01:09 PM

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View PostArtick_, on 16 February 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

some country are eligible to refund. If your prem tank is changed ( in worse only aparently ) you may ask for your money back , eventough nobody would care :)

 

Ya and the thing is, even though those premium tanks that have to lean towards premium ammo usage to deal damage due to abysmal standard ammo pen in an over armored small map sort of meta will most definitely suffer, as it stands we are not actually playing in the sandbox re-balance meta and so if a premium tank is currently advertised for having strong HE damage well, that's not a lie is it? Because if you were to purchase that premium today it would strong HE as advertised. The only time that would be a lie and false advertisement would be if it was sold AFTER the ammo re-balance was applied to this game in which case that customer would have a case but since there's a 2 week money back sort of situation, you could get a refund plus I would imagine that WG will some current descriptions on premium tanks that would not deliver on what was advertised. 

 

So for as long as we still run the current offering of WoT and not the ammo re-balance version, all is fair? To sell HE slingers that will be rendered pretty much useless in the future and premiums that currently lean heavily on premium ammo usage that will become 20% less effective and cost 20% more to run, this is ok until the actual ammo re-balance changes are applied to the game?

 

I get some of the points made. Let's take my SU-130-PM. That can HE for about 600 dmg with a pen, very nice obviously but after the ammo re-balance it won't. However, as it stands, it currently still does pen with HE so if a player was to purchase this tank and get at least two weeks of use out of it with it's current HE pen, then there really is no case? A Two weeks from purchase renders that product a "no returns" sort of status so long as nothing advertised changes within that two weeks and after that it's a case of talk to the hand?



SlyMeerkat #98 Posted 16 February 2020 - 01:12 PM

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I have spent quite a lot on Premium Tanks but at same time i also care for the game and if that means changing Premium Tanks for whatever reason then so be it, i won't mind the least because if it means making the game better than fine by me and that's not just about HE, i mean everything in general, if they so wanted to and wish they would

Edited by SlyMeerkat, 16 February 2020 - 01:13 PM.


CmdRatScabies #99 Posted 16 February 2020 - 01:12 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 16 February 2020 - 01:09 PM, said:

 A Two weeks from purchase renders that product a "no returns" sort of status so long as nothing advertised changes within that two weeks and after that it's a case of talk to the hand?

The period runs after the product is changed as I understand it.



ThorgrimBrenadim #100 Posted 16 February 2020 - 01:22 PM

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View Postspuriousmonkey, on 16 February 2020 - 10:10 AM, said:

You buy a digital good. For instance the valentine 2.

 

WG sells it with the following description:

This Soviet Tier IV vehicle might be classified as a light tank but has heavy qualities. Very good armour, a more-than-decent amount of hit points, and a relatively small size that makes it hard for the enemy to hit.

They does't sell it with specific stats. pen is this, armor is that.

They do this for all premium tanks.

The have a vague description of the tank that they are selling. They aren't selling its stats.

 

 


Sounds good till you then look deeper and the do say it has x dispersion x,y,z, armour thickness. it has these shells with x,y pen and damage. Ground resistance is X and this goes on and on just like the Duracell bunny and ties wargaming down to the very nitty gritty details of the tank.

12:26 Added after 4 minute

View Postspuriousmonkey, on 16 February 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

Doesn't say it is an advert. It is an how to play video. How do you think this will hold up in court? I don't think it will. If you want to buy a premium tank, you have to go to the website. Click on the tank. There is says what you get with the tank, and what kind of tank it is. It doesn't specific its stats nor that its stats are guaranteed till infinity. It says "it is a mobile medium tank with some armour." "A heavy tank with lots of armour" yadayada.

 

That's the store. That is the terms. Not some youtube video.

 

That youtube video is not linked on the store page. That video is sold as an assistance to players who bought the tank. It tells them how to play it at that point in time. That's how I interpret it, and I doubt that your viewpoint will not be contested.

 

Because tell me please, how isn't any of the old premium tanks not changed by the switch to HD graphics and the change of environment due to new physics and the change do environment due to introduction of new tanks creating a new meta.

 

Absolutely nothing is still the same with the old premium tanks and there hasn't been a single successful lawsuit. Not one.

 

To me it sounds like whining when people think that WG owns them something because the tank changed. Type 59 used to see tier 5 tanks. How is that not a major nerf that it doesn't play against tier 5 tanks any longer?

 

To me the matter is clear. You go to the store page. You buy what they describe. You get what they describe.

 

 

 

10:14 Added after 0 minute

good that you are a lawyer then.


Sue them.

 

Not good that you are NOT a lawyer and clueless. If you don't want to bother with your consumer rights that is your choice and fine. BUT ! do not EVER try and remove other peoples consumer rights because you know nothing about your rights.

 

As a saying goes   "Rights are like muscles if you don't use them you loose them".






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