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Why new tech tree changes are bad


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murn123 #1 Posted 20 February 2020 - 06:00 PM

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Wargaming thinks that removing some 70 tanks from the game is a good idea. Here are some of my reasons why it is not.

Firstly, I think this will ensue a monotony for new players due to such a lack of variety of tanks in lower tiers, making them quite the game. Also they will not learn about other types of vehicles, their strength and weaknesses, and bring their non familiarity with those types of vehicles further into the high tiers, where competition is fiercer. It is better they experience all types of tanks form the get go, so they can see from the beginning how the game will look further up the tiers and don't get false impressions. This also makes them acquire skills in lower tiers where competition is less fierce and makes higher tier battles filled with more competent players. 

 

As far as i can see it wargaming  sees this as a problem because this is a needless stop gap for people who want to get to higher tier tanks faster. As a player with 12k battles all of my tier 5 or below tanks are usually free xp-ed, meaning this problem is only for new players, who actually need a stop gap so they learn and get accustomed to the game in a less competitive environment. And if the problem is to get new players faster to the higher tiers may i suggest giving them free xp bonuses or create special missions for players with less than a 1000 battles so they get more xp from battles and so on.

 

Another reason for this change was that is will make tech tree more concise.... I have never heard any player complain that they could not make sense of the tech tree. To me this reason is pointless.

 

I think this is a very bad idea and will make new players more likely to quite due to monotony, will make them less skilled due to not experiencing different classes of tanks, and will not solve the problem of getting people to higher tiers faster, since it is not a problem to begin with due to all the free xp bonuses and blueprints. 

I will admit that in some cases for example the soviet heavy line at tier 5 is needlessly convoluted and maybe in some other cases too, but to remove 70 tanks is pure insanity, I was expecting wargaming to remove around 10 tanks tops.



WoT_RU_Doing #2 Posted 20 February 2020 - 06:05 PM

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You do know that they are not removing the tanks? They just move them to the collector's area. You can still buy them once you have researched a tier 6 tank for that nation. They just aren't cluttering up the tech tree view anymore. 

 

OK, there's a small number being moved in tiers 6-10 where we don't know how we get to buy them yet, but if you have them already you keep them. 

 

Edit - P.S....the only things that annoy me about the whole thing are that

1. I'll have to spend XP to research the three new tech tree tanks, even though I've already researched everything in the game.

2. I'll have to spend a fairly large amount of gold to convert refunded XP from the old tanks into free XP


Edited by WoT_RU_Doing, 20 February 2020 - 06:13 PM.


murn123 #3 Posted 20 February 2020 - 06:23 PM

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View PostWoT_RU_Doing, on 20 February 2020 - 06:05 PM, said:

You do know that they are not removing the tanks? They just move them to the collector's area. You can still buy them once you have researched a tier 6 tank for that nation. They just aren't cluttering up the tech tree view anymore. 

 

OK, there's a small number being moved in tiers 6-10 where we don't know how we get to buy them yet, but if you have them already you keep them. 

 

Edit - P.S....the only things that annoy me about the whole thing are that

1. I'll have to spend XP to research the three new tech tree tanks, even though I've already researched everything in the game.

2. I'll have to spend a fairly large amount of gold to convert refunded XP from the old tanks into free XP

?? they are removing them from tech tree. Once they are out of tech tree people will see no reason to buy them and play them. I mean even now people see no reason to play low tier tanks, it is purely for new players to get accustomed to the game. 

 

I think you and wargaming are undervaluing the importance of low tier tech tree tanks acting as a sort tutorial for the game.



WoT_RU_Doing #4 Posted 20 February 2020 - 06:30 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 20 February 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

?? they are removing them from tech tree. Once they are out of tech tree people will see no reason to buy them and play them. I mean even now people see no reason to play low tier tanks, it is purely for new players to get accustomed to the game. 

 

I think you and wargaming are undervaluing the importance of low tier tech tree tanks acting as a sort tutorial for the game.


The current tutorial and bootcamp results in you being given a token to buy any tech tree tier 6 tank of your choice....when I last tested it I had a tier X within 700 battles. The days you remember of players actually learning from low tier tanks essentially disappeared nearly 2 years ago. 



SovietBias #5 Posted 20 February 2020 - 06:56 PM

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I believe WG wants players spending less time in tiers where there's not much money to be made.

Bordhaw #6 Posted 20 February 2020 - 07:45 PM

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View PostSovietBias, on 20 February 2020 - 05:56 PM, said:

I believe WG wants players spending less time in tiers where there's not much money to be made.

 

WG

The Tech Tree interface became more user-friendly and transparent. There is now a universal layout for vehicle types inside the Tech Tree. You don’t have to start researching a new branch from low-tier vehicles, which will spare the time, experience, and effort, especially of players primarily interested in high-tier vehicles.

 

 



Karasu_Hidesuke #7 Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:49 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 20 February 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

?? they are removing them from tech tree. Once they are out of tech tree people will see no reason to buy them and play them. I mean even now people see no reason to play low tier tanks, it is purely for new players to get accustomed to the game. 

 

I think you and wargaming are undervaluing the importance of low tier tech tree tanks acting as a sort tutorial for the game.

 

Logically, one would assume then, it's a relatively small loss...:hiding:

 

The low tiers as they currently are are a PITA to play on, unlike when I was originally grinding up my first couple of lines. Now it's just like hitting a wall of gold spam....


Edited by Karasu_Hidesuke, 20 February 2020 - 10:49 PM.


Bulldog_Drummond #8 Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:59 PM

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View PostKarasu_Hidesuke, on 20 February 2020 - 09:49 PM, said:

 

Logically, one would assume then, it's a relatively small loss...:hiding:

 

The low tiers as they currently are are a PITA to play on, unlike when I was originally grinding up my first couple of lines. Now it's just like hitting a wall of gold spam....

 

I find low tiers far more amusing than high tiers, and I don't even use much gold ammo



Nishi_Kinuyo #9 Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:15 PM

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Imo, Wargaming should just change it so it is similar to World of Warships, if they insist on changing it at all.

I mean, this doesn't look as bad, does it?

Spoiler

You start off with a medium ship, and at tier 2 you can branch off to a light ship, and at tier 3 to a heavy ship, and at tier 4 to an SPG ship.

And in the above example, the medium ship line branches off into a lighter armed one and a heavier armed one (152mm and 203mm cannons, roughly).

Its looks clean, it is neat, and it works.



Bulldog_Drummond #10 Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:20 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 20 February 2020 - 10:15 PM, said:

Imo, Wargaming should just change it so it is similar to World of Warships, if they insist on changing it at all.

I mean, this doesn't look as bad, does it?

Spoiler

You start off with a medium ship, and at tier 2 you can branch off to a light ship, and at tier 3 to a heavy ship, and at tier 4 to an SPG ship.

And in the above example, the medium ship line branches off into a lighter armed one and a heavier armed one (152mm and 203mm cannons, roughly).

Its looks clean, it is neat, and it works.

 

But no one plays the ships or planes games

The idea of getting everything neat and tidy doesn't fit very well with real life humans



Karasu_Hidesuke #11 Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:05 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 20 February 2020 - 10:15 PM, said:

Imo, Wargaming should just change it so it is similar to World of Warships, if they insist on changing it at all.

I mean, this doesn't look as bad, does it?

Spoiler

You start off with a medium ship, and at tier 2 you can branch off to a light ship, and at tier 3 to a heavy ship, and at tier 4 to an SPG ship.

And in the above example, the medium ship line branches off into a lighter armed one and a heavier armed one (152mm and 203mm cannons, roughly).

Its looks clean, it is neat, and it works.

 

The problem with the low tiers is worse in WoWS, as all the missions require you to play tiers V-X... so there's not much to do with the low tier ships...

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 20 February 2020 - 10:20 PM, said:

 

But no one plays the ships or planes games

The idea of getting everything neat and tidy doesn't fit very well with real life humans

 

Yes we do! (Well, ships at least...)  :Smile_child:



Bulldog_Drummond #12 Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:24 AM

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View PostKarasu_Hidesuke, on 20 February 2020 - 11:05 PM, said:

 

Yes we do! (Well, ships at least...)  :Smile_child:

 

I think we are into the realms of psychology here rather than gaming

Decades of having to deal with idiotic rules have left me with a strong preference for mess



Balc0ra #13 Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:36 AM

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View Postmurn123, on 20 February 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

?? they are removing them from tech tree. Once they are out of tech tree people will see no reason to buy them and play them. I mean even now people see no reason to play low tier tanks, it is purely for new players to get accustomed to the game.

 

You just said you skip tier 1 to 5 anyway. Most do, and new players get to tier 6 after the new player missions are done. Old players don't want to "pad", new players want to get up as fast as they can. The deal was that all the tier II's are confusing to a new player. Not the line to the tier X. But all the styles. And everyone I've pulled into the game the past 2 years says the same thing. They spend more time checking the low tiers then they do playing them, trying to figure out what's what.

 

 

View Postmurn123, on 20 February 2020 - 06:00 PM, said:

And if the problem is to get new players faster to the higher tiers may i suggest giving them free xp bonuses or create special missions for players with less than a 1000 battles so they get more xp from battles and so on.

 

There are, new players have several missions sets that demand they play on low tiers that rewards free 100% crews, free XP, premium days etc as is. But once they are past 1000 battles. Then what?

 

 

View Postmurn123, on 20 February 2020 - 06:00 PM, said:

Also they will not learn about other types of vehicles, their strength and weaknesses, and bring their non familiarity with those types of vehicles further into the high tiers, where competition is fiercer. It is better they experience all types of tanks form the get go, so they can see from the beginning how the game will look further up the tiers and don't get false impressions. This also makes them acquire skills in lower tiers where competition is less fierce and makes higher tier battles filled with more competent players.

 

If anything, you want to make it as simple as possible. They won't create false impressions, but rather teach 3 things, vs 20 things at the same time. As WOT is not an easy game to get into with all the mechanics, on top of the tanks. As TD's is not the best line to start with. New players will be blind, have zero clue about spotting or camo. So waiting until they have more experience to go back to explore later, is arguably not the worst idea.

 

Once they get to tier 6 they can buy anyone of those tanks. At any time. Don't have to grind a new line. Just buy it and play it. As they will just get their own tech tree you don't need to progress on, vs cluttering the current trees. And I'm all for it. Be it the SU-5, Marder or the M3 Lee. And it's not like they will ever face anyone of them. Learn to fight it, or see anything else.

 



DawidKotek #14 Posted 21 February 2020 - 04:22 PM

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You will able buy the removed tier 6-10 for credits is rubbish!!!!. I spent months researching them , so what bonus i get if now everyone will able buy them for credits.

 

I will WANT A FREE EXP REFUND for researching all of them tanks!!!!

 

---- THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE TECH TREE CHANGE!






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