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We need to talk about how flawed the Clan Wars system is. NOW

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_BabyLynx_ #1 Posted 20 February 2020 - 09:46 PM

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So there are many flawed things with the current system around clan wars. 
As a player who has played since 2011 but never really taken part in Clan Wars before Dawn of Industry, its really easy to get upset and loose the will to continue playing, because of several reasons;
  1. Reward tanks are allowed in the campaign. Literally, to earn a reward tank, you have to be competitive, yes? Well psyche, to be competitive you need reward tanks, as they are the meta. 
  2. If you cant get any land early on, you will never get enough points to bid over the other clans for games that give you x5 the points. Meaning its the ultimate snowball simulator. If you are unlucky, or start of bad, or for any reason can not get enough clan Fame Points during the first two days, its literally impossible to get x5 landings. Unless you get through the tournament of course. But thats also not an easy task because as soon as you get that far, the only tanks the enemy team uses are Chieftains and obj 907s. Which are just plain better than Sconqs, 260s, 277, 140 and all other tech three "meta" tanks.

    There are probably more things I could write about, but this is just to get some attention. Feel free to add things in the comments and hopefully get WG to realise that they need to change things, to keep it fair between all players and clans.

    In conclusion; Dont allow reward tanks in CW and fix the god damn snowball system that leaves new clans who want to be competitive hanging behind.


thePhilX #2 Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:17 PM

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Hey _Babylynx_

first of all, thanks for providing feedback and being interested improving the clan wars system for everyone.

 

So from what I can see is that you have 2 main problems with the current system. One is reward tanks being allowed to be used in clanwars battles, the second is about point distribution. I will try to provide you with a good answer and some reasoning for both.

 

1) Clanwars reward tanks

- First of all, you are stating "Chieftains and obj 907s. Which are just plain better than Sconqs, 260s, 277, 140 and all other tech three 'meta' tanks". Beside the fact that the Object 260 is not a tech tree tank, straight out putting all tanks in the same comparison doesn't really make sense in the scope of clan wars, as different tanks have to fulfill different tasks. Take away the "specialist tanks" like the Strv 103B, SPGs and Light tanks - which are btw only represented by tech tree tanks - some tanks are better than other in situation A but worse in situation B. Taking a look at the Object 907, you have a tank with good mobility, DPM and decent armor for a medium tank - attributes that make this tank great for rotations, pushes and flanking maneuvers. But there are other attributes that make the tank not that viable for other situations, such as a brawl in the city, we you have to trade 1 shell for 1 shell with tanks utilizing guns with much higher alpha damage or better armor / more HP. That's why tech tree tanks such as the T110E3 or T110E4 are great for brawling on city maps like Ensk. Also tanks like the WZ-111 5A or the Object 277 are great if you need to have a Heavy tank to fight in a crucial position, having more HP, better armor and a higher Alpha damage shot to trade with. What I'm saying here is not, that the clanwars reward tanks are not being strong, but they are not a universal weapon for every situation - the field commander has to know the map and decide on what kind of tanks he/she wants to use to fulfill certain roles like sniping, spotting, taking shots while holding an important position ... I checked the recruitment requirements for your clan and the person writing it listed a lot of good alternatives already "-tier 10: T-100 LT, EBR 105, Obj. 430U, Obj. 907, Batchat 25t, IS-7, 113, WZ-111 5A, Obj 260, Obj. 268-4, CGC, T92" which leads me to the next point.

 

- You can categorize tanks in certain groups, based on their gameplay and how you can use the tanks on the battlefield. While there might be some tanks in some groups, that outshine others in certain situations, that doesn't mean that there isn't a decent replacement for it. That means for instance you have the group of fast mediums with good DPM, where you could put in tanks like the Object 907, the Obj140, Obj430U and potentially an STB-1. (There are more options, but those are the most viable in my opinion). While the Obj907 provides a nice combination of speed, DPM and armor, the 430U utilizes better protection and a higher alpha damage, while the Obj140 comes with great gun handling and an additional degree of gun depression. The next group could be heaviums (fast heavies, that can be played like mediums) like the Object 260, Obj277, WZ-111 5A, 113, IS-7 and others. Continuing with snipers (mainly Strv and Leo1), tanks for spotting, autoloaders to provide burst, heavy brawlers, SPGs ... . Long story short, you are not forced to and you shouldn't only rely on 2 different tanks to win the game. There are many tanks that can be used for different situations and also there are many different maps that have to be played in a different way.

 

- Next thing is that you say, that you would play against teams only consisting of those tanks, and I'm not denying that this can be the case. But our landing tournaments on the Global Map are done in a way, that your clan is matched against a clan of same strength for the first battle. That means your clan has a tier X global map elo of 1061 and is matched against a clan with a comparable score, it is to be expected that this clan has comparable experience and most likely also a comparable pool or tanks to pick from. Top clans - where most of the players have all relevant meta tanks - are rare and will avoid playing on the basic front when they don't have to.

- Another point to think about is what should be the criteria to win in "clanwars". There are obviously multiple factors such as individual player skill within a team, the tactic for a specific map, the experience of the field commander and his/her skill to react in certain situations, the communication between team mates ... . What you addressed as an issue with having or not having access to reward tanks - "to be competitive you need reward tanks" - could be the availability of resources, which can be the tank pool the clan's players can provide, having good crews on your important tank, having enough credits, when it is needed to shot some premium ammo to heavily armored tanks ... or even having enough players online in the evening, when your clan needs to fill 2, 3 or even 5 battles at the same time. Clans evolve and grow over time and so does their experience. You improve your teamplay, your communication and your tactics, you recruit better players, you have more tanks available and you have a bigger group of players staying up in the evening to fight for you. This is your first clanwars campaign and I think you are doing a great job so far. Right now, you have around 25 players that player at least 10 battles during the event, but more than a third just joined the clan this year. I'm sure you can still improve in playing together as a clan and I'm also sure that if you do, you will be able to succeed, don't forget that It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock 'n' roll.

 

2) Your second argument is about how to earn points and about the x5 battles.

This bonus applies not only when fighting in an auction tournament on the advanced or elite front, but also in several situations on the basic front - defending a province and fighting against the owner of a province or attacking other provinces via land.

While it is true that you have to use points and make a bid to be allowed to fight at the more valuable provinces, there is another way on how to get there being the tokens for free applications on the advanced front. You can earn them for a) capturing a province on the basic front what has this as the province bonus, b) buying the technology in the laboratory or c) completing a clan mission. I understand that the complete mechanic of the global map might be a bit complex from time to and it can be hard to understand everything at the first time, but I'm sure if you contact one of our many clanwars veterans, they will help you with better organizing the event within your clan when it comes to resource usage/investment and your overall clan strategy.



Darth_Infektid #3 Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:51 PM

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The same old complaint

 

Random Bob upset because he cannot get a tank that's meant to be a reward for being a good player.

 

Crying on the forums is useless.

 

You have two options

1) Improve and get in a good clan that will allow you to get a tank (and please spare me the old excuses "pay to win" "i play for fun" "good players are cheaters" )

2) Buy place in a good clan (I completely disagree with this - but everyone knows that it  happens and not talking about it won't make it dissapear)

 


Edited by Darth_Infektid, 21 February 2020 - 12:52 PM.


wsatnutter #4 Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:07 PM

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people pay to get in a clan ??? really that's mad

thePhilX #5 Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:39 PM

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View PostDarth_Infektid, on 21 February 2020 - 11:51 AM, said:

The same old complaint

 

Random Bob upset because he cannot get a tank that's meant to be a reward for being a good player.

 

Crying on the forums is useless.

 

 

You appear to be a good and experienced Clanwars player, why don't you offer your help improving and becoming better by sharing your expertise instead of being toxic towards others that want to enjoy the game in the same way you do?

 

There is nothing nice about being rude to someone that is lacking experience or wants to improve.



PlasticArmour #6 Posted 21 February 2020 - 04:25 PM

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Pointless playing unless you are in a top clan, save your credits and time unless WG decide to introduce a fairer ranking system, top clans are still playing in the beginning map stopping anyone in the lower rankings getting anywhere. Then to add insult to injury top clans form alliances to control the top spots.

WG have failed completely to help level the playing field for any up and coming clans. Walk away and don't be disappointed.



PlasticArmour #7 Posted 21 February 2020 - 06:46 PM

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I was thinking how they can help level things up. How about same competitions but clans enter platoons of 3 and all go into random teams earning points for their clan? 

Prasica_Daca #8 Posted 21 February 2020 - 11:46 PM

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Honestly, it's pointless to play next to top clans and those clans made for campagne or miraculously filled in few days before campagne starts with awesome players especially for campagne to have fresh start with low elo. Idea with 3 fronts is not bad but at curent rate is not working because you see top 100 clans having 15 or more provinces at basic level. All i can think of could be:
1. Introduce same rule as for cw seasons-if clan has a province he can't attack landing zone. In this case landing zones would be posibile area for casual clans.
Or
2. Limit amounth of provinces clan can have on i don't know, max 7. I think then it would actually matter are your provinces on basic, advanced or elite front. That would force better clans to fight their own kind not to run over 700-800elo clans day after day demonstrating force





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