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Illusion and Reality


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Bulldog_Drummond #1 Posted 21 February 2020 - 08:26 PM

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One of my favourite movie scenes is in Magnum Force, where Lieutenant Briggs says to Inspector Callaghan "I've worked in this City 20 years, Inspector and I've never once had to draw my gun, I'm proud of that" and Callaghan replies "You're a good man, Briggs, a good man always knows his limitations." [That's from memory.]

The pseudonymous 'Adam Smith' in his brilliant 1960s book The Money Game says of investing in the stock market "If you don't know who you are this is an expensive place to find out"

Something I find endlessly fascinating about this game, and which keeps drawing me back, is the psychological element

  • Why do people play higher tiers when they lose all the time (like some teenager crashing the Porsche his dad bought him)?
  • Why do people think they are targeted by WG's MM to lose when the reality is that they are just useless?
  • Why do people focus on stuff like arty which they are convinced makes them lose all the time when it is irrelevant?
  • Why is a lost game always the fault of someone else?

I dare say that I can think of more examples

 

 


Edited by Bulldog_Drummond, 21 February 2020 - 08:30 PM.


xx984 #2 Posted 21 February 2020 - 08:38 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

Something I find endlessly fascinating about this game, and which keeps drawing me back, is the psychological element

  • Why do people play higher tiers when they lose all the time (like some teenager crashing the Porsche his dad bought him)? - Need to learn how to play high tiers somehow. Have to start somewhere. You're not magically going to learn how to play high tier tanks by spamming tier 7 and below 24/7
  • Why do people think they are targeted by WG's MM to lose when the reality is that they are just useless? ​Does anyone genuinely think that? Yes people think its rigged but that doesn't translate into, them thinking WG are targeting them alone and no one else. Although they are still wrong. 
  • Why do people focus on stuff like arty which they are convinced makes them lose all the time when it is irrelevant? What has it to do with losing? Arty is just terrible for the game, doesn't matter if you win or lose. Its a toxic mechanic that punishes active gameplay and rewards braindeads who dont know how to do anything but click the left mouse.
  • Why is a lost game always the fault of someone else? 95% of the time its not. You do get those games occasionally where the team seems to go out of their way to try and make a defeat. No matter what you do. But majority of the games, That isn't the case. 

 

 

 

 



BravelyRanAway #3 Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:11 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

One of my favourite movie scenes is in Magnum Force, where Lieutenant Briggs says to Inspector Callaghan "I've worked in this City 20 years, Inspector and I've never once had to draw my gun, I'm proud of that" and Callaghan replies "You're a good man, Briggs, a good man always knows his limitations." [That's from memory.]

The pseudonymous 'Adam Smith' in his brilliant 1960s book The Money Game says of investing in the stock market "If you don't know who you are this is an expensive place to find out"

Something I find endlessly fascinating about this game, and which keeps drawing me back, is the psychological element

  • Why do people play higher tiers when they lose all the time (like some teenager crashing the Porsche his dad bought him)?
  • Why do people think they are targeted by WG's MM to lose when the reality is that they are just useless?
  • Why do people focus on stuff like arty which they are convinced makes them lose all the time when it is irrelevant?
  • Why is a lost game always the fault of someone else?

I dare say that I can think of more examples

 

 

I'd say because it ticks your boxes for risk/reward...which is in line with your work.

Every now and then because of the random nature of team set up, a player feels they made a massive contribution to a single game.....that's the hook.

You can see why and know what works for you(work reference)...but many others don't realise why they come back even after a beating.

The beating heart of this game is the random MM....you know it, I know it, WG knows it....but many don't, and cry for a change that will dull thier own interest without realising it.



splash_time #4 Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:12 PM

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Well Mr. Drummond,

 

I guess they play higher tiers because they mainly don't like the idea of being "bottom tier" or to be wiped out by two or three shoots.

 

And the fact that every good player will blame MM because he plays well, but his team weren't even able to destroy 6-7 tanks in one match. It'll be MM fault since it sets up the players, so he'll start to think MM is "targeting me" after meeting a hell a lot of such teams I believe. :D

 

Arty is really effective in a match, since it can dig out or destroy hull down tanks with no effort. So, I've seen many players who drown themselves when they see bad team. (correct me if I understood anything wrong here).

 

Well, about last point, for example, when you see that you're holding a key position alone while rest of the team went on one flank, who you'll blame? :D 

My point is, sometimes it's right, sometimes it's not.


Edited by splash_time, 21 February 2020 - 09:16 PM.


evilchaosmonkey #5 Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:19 PM

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Can I ask a mod why was this moved to off-topic?

Seems a perfectly legitimate discussion on the game.

 

Too much of this going on.



Balc0ra #6 Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:19 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

Why do people play higher tiers when they lose all the time (like some teenager crashing the Porsche his dad bought him)?

 

You can say that about any tier. How else should they learn from their failures if they don't try? As the mistakes they forgive on tier 6. Are not as easily forgiven on tier 9. So tbh, most learn less by only playing low tiers.

Spoiler

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

Why do people think they are targeted by WG's MM to lose when the reality is that they are just useless?

 

Tinfoil stuff is tricky to understand. I'm wondering more why they play over 20 000 games, when they have thought so for 15 000 of them. WOT is the only game that can do that. You could argue that WOT is a different kind of addiction that... pulls them back.

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

Why do people focus on stuff like arty which they are convinced makes them lose all the time when it is irrelevant

 

Depends. People focus mostly on the bad here. As that's what sticks out. Good games and good streaks fade away. But a bad streak or anything else bad sticks out each time. For most that's arty. And each time they camp and get hit by them... They suddenly remember all the other 835 times it did happen. Not the 7204 times it did not happen.

 

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

Why is a lost game always the fault of someone else

 

Some people just want to watch the world burn. Others provide the zippo for it. Those don't fit into point #1, as they never will learn from their mistakes. But rather blame it on someone else.



Bulldog_Drummond #7 Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:21 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 21 February 2020 - 08:19 PM, said:

Can I ask a mod why was this moved to off-topic?

Seems a perfectly legitimate discussion on the game.

 

Too much of this going on.

 

Did it really get moved to The Hall of Bright Carvings?

That's the end of this conversation then

I guess Jumpy just doesn't like me

20:24 Added after 3 minute
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1ucky #8 Posted 22 February 2020 - 12:30 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

One of my favourite movie scenes is in Magnum Force, where Lieutenant Briggs says to Inspector Callaghan "I've worked in this City 20 years, Inspector and I've never once had to draw my gun, I'm proud of that" and Callaghan replies "You're a good man, Briggs, a good man always knows his limitations." [That's from memory.]

The pseudonymous 'Adam Smith' in his brilliant 1960s book The Money Game says of investing in the stock market "If you don't know who you are this is an expensive place to find out"

Something I find endlessly fascinating about this game, and which keeps drawing me back, is the psychological element

  • Why do people play higher tiers when they lose all the time (like some teenager crashing the Porsche his dad bought him)?
  • Why do people think they are targeted by WG's MM to lose when the reality is that they are just useless?
  • Why do people focus on stuff like arty which they are convinced makes them lose all the time when it is irrelevant?
  • Why is a lost game always the fault of someone else?

I dare say that I can think of more examples

#GreatStuff

 

Those are great questions / love the psychological perspective, too.

It's quite a huge and long-term psych-experiment going on here...

 

=> Off-Topic, alright... :P

 

Funny how tirades of complaints and lies count as on-topic and constructive (even by themself, let alone in comparison with this), but hey, what can you do. Maybe it's true too, that this is off-topic since it's about people's reasoning behind the gameplay and not the manifest gameplay itself...

(On the other hand, it's clearly about WoT, so... :confused:)

 

All good, nice to have a look at different forum sections from time to time perhaps. All the more if Gameplay is mostly just full of same old same old complaints.



evilchaosmonkey #9 Posted 23 February 2020 - 10:17 AM

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Is the cause ultimately not pride?  As in the last thing most people want to do is admit failure - particularly in an alpha-male game like this? 

Do women perform better in the game, wouldn't surprise me if their averages were higher?

 

If you could measure it, I suspect there's a correlation between self-awareness and skill and enjoyment of the game, though that sounds fairly obvious to me.

 

If it is true then can you exploit it in others to win more - as in reverse psychology the hell out of the points in game......time would of course be better spent making yourself aware and learning....but hey that's boring.

 

 

 

 



Erwin_Von_Braun #10 Posted 23 February 2020 - 11:09 AM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

One of my favourite movie scenes is in Magnum Force, where Lieutenant Briggs says to Inspector Callaghan "I've worked in this City 20 years, Inspector and I've never once had to draw my gun, I'm proud of that" and Callaghan replies "You're a good man, Briggs, a good man always knows his limitations." [That's from memory.]

The pseudonymous 'Adam Smith' in his brilliant 1960s book The Money Game says of investing in the stock market "If you don't know who you are this is an expensive place to find out"

Something I find endlessly fascinating about this game, and which keeps drawing me back, is the psychological element

  • Why do people play higher tiers when they lose all the time (like some teenager crashing the Porsche his dad bought him)?
  • Why do people think they are targeted by WG's MM to lose when the reality is that they are just useless?
  • Why do people focus on stuff like arty which they are convinced makes them lose all the time when it is irrelevant?
  • Why is a lost game always the fault of someone else?

I dare say that I can think of more examples

 

 


I don't know my good man and, if I can be Frank, I'm not sure I want to know.

Do we really want to know the reasonings behind decisions taken by frustrated, bad tempered uni students or rum soaked adults that really should know better :trollface:



Sirebellus #11 Posted 23 February 2020 - 01:03 PM

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View Postxx984, on 21 February 2020 - 08:38 PM, said:

Arty is just terrible for the game, doesn't matter if you win or lose. Its a toxic mechanic that punishes active gameplay and rewards braindeads who dont know how to do anything but click the left mouse.

 

You're like a performing seal, mention the word Arty and the Pavlov's Dogs will immediately start with the personal insults... 



Kotris #12 Posted 23 February 2020 - 01:23 PM

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and how someone with three time worst average damage have beter winrate than me

jabster #13 Posted 23 February 2020 - 01:34 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 23 February 2020 - 09:17 AM, said:

Is the cause ultimately not pride?  As in the last thing most people want to do is admit failure - particularly in an alpha-male game like this? 

Do women perform better in the game, wouldn't surprise me if their averages were higher?

 

If you could measure it, I suspect there's a correlation between self-awareness and skill and enjoyment of the game, though that sounds fairly obvious to me.

 

If it is true then can you exploit it in others to win more - as in reverse psychology the hell out of the points in game......time would of course be better spent making yourself aware and learning....but hey that's boring.

 

 

 

 


I believe there’s also an element of it really feeling like the game is out to get you sometimes. I played a session in the Pz IC this week and boy was it awful both in terms of my own performance and that of my teams. It’s relatively natural to come to the conclusion of agency instead of just bad things happen.



Venom7000 #14 Posted 23 February 2020 - 01:55 PM

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View PostKotris, on 23 February 2020 - 01:23 PM, said:

and how someone with three time worst average damage have beter winrate than me



Isnt avg. damage the least helpful stat?
I mean someone can enjoy lower tiers or tanks that have lower dmg per shot, or play passive scouts. They may be very good players but doing dmg isnt their main duty.
My avg dmg started increasing the more I played Tier X and then it really took off when I unlocked JgpzE100.



djciolos5 #15 Posted 23 February 2020 - 02:03 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 21 February 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

 

I guess Jumpy just doesn't like me.

 

 

 

Rest assuresld, he is not the only one.


Edited by djciolos5, 23 February 2020 - 02:04 PM.


vixu #16 Posted 23 February 2020 - 02:29 PM

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View PostKotris, on 23 February 2020 - 01:23 PM, said:

and how someone with three time worst average damage have beter winrate than me

if I'd play only tiers 1-3. I could have 5+ times worst average damage, and will probably have higher win rate.



evilchaosmonkey #17 Posted 23 February 2020 - 04:51 PM

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View Postjabster, on 23 February 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:


I believe there’s also an element of it really feeling like the game is out to get you sometimes. I played a session in the Pz IC this week and boy was it awful both in terms of my own performance and that of my teams. It’s relatively natural to come to the conclusion of agency instead of just bad things happen.

 

This is true.  But why is it hard to accept randomness and our own helplessness against it?  Something in the hard wired DNA of the soul I guess that serves some kind of purpose.

If WG could conquer that, this game would be more enjoyable.



shikaka9 #18 Posted 23 February 2020 - 04:54 PM

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_Signal_ #19 Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:01 PM

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View Postsplash_time, on 21 February 2020 - 08:12 PM, said:

Well Mr. Drummond,

 

I guess they play higher tiers because they mainly don't like the idea of being "bottom tier" or to be wiped out by two or three shoots.

 

And the fact that every good player will blame MM because he plays well, but his team weren't even able to destroy 6-7 tanks in one match. It'll be MM fault since it sets up the players, so he'll start to think MM is "targeting me" after meeting a hell a lot of such teams I believe. :D

 

Arty is really effective in a match, since it can dig out or destroy hull down tanks with no effort. So, I've seen many players who drown themselves when they see bad team. (correct me if I understood anything wrong here).

 

Well, about last point, for example, when you see that you're holding a key position alone while rest of the team went on one flank, who you'll blame? :D 

My point is, sometimes it's right, sometimes it's not.

Did read this but then you said arty is effective and immediately discounted everything else you said.



Karasu_Hidesuke #20 Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:03 PM

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:mellow:

 

... just close your eyes and think of England...

 

:hiding:






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