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[Suggestion] Buff AMX 30 and AMX 30B before removing them from tech tree.

Rebalance French MT AMX 30B

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Poll: AMX 30B buff (53 members have cast votes)

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Should WG buff it before removing it?

  1. Yes (30 votes [56.60%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.60%

  2. No (23 votes [43.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.40%

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splash_time #1 Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:13 PM

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Hi fellas, 

 

Remember, this is just a suggestion.  

As WG announced once before, why not to apply this changes, then remove it from tech tree? I mean, it will be available for sales from time to time for credits. 

 

And I don't think it has anything special or it won't change the meta if it receives these buffs right? Still some tanks are better.

 

These changes were introduced before, which means that they've been tested and were good for the AMX 30B. 


Edited by splash_time, 22 February 2020 - 01:14 PM.


Balc0ra #2 Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:24 PM

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Most of those changes, inc the 430U nerfs were pulled, even tho some thought the AMX30 buffs were good. Why? iirc they again blamed the other sandbox tested on ammo changes to get a better idea on what to do.

 

 



saurilian #3 Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:51 PM

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30B has amazing speed and STB-1 dpm. What do you want more?

Yaccay #4 Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:54 PM

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A vehicle should be changed (buffed/nerfed ) to make it more balanced and not because its status will change (tech-tree, premium, reward, collection).

splash_time #5 Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:54 PM

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View Postsaurilian, on 22 February 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

30B has amazing speed and STB-1 dpm. What do you want more?

 

But it doesn't have the gun depression and the solid turret. :) 

Plus, it has a massive weak spot on the top of the turret, and okay-ish gun handing. 

12:59 Added after 4 minute

View PostYaccay, on 22 February 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

A vehicle should be changed (buffed/nerfed ) to make it more balanced and not because its status will change (tech-tree, premium, reward, collection).

 

I guess it'll be fair to apply them before removing it, because they were introduced once if you understand what I mean.



JOSEBA_PRIME #6 Posted 22 February 2020 - 03:08 PM

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Idk about AMX30B, but the AMX 30 is fine like it is. It is true that it has a derpy gun handling, but appart from this is a very nice all rounded tier 9.

 

 



8126Jakobsson #7 Posted 22 February 2020 - 03:33 PM

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Yeah the 30 is fine. Give the 30B better pen and maybe put its cupola on a diet and call it a day. 

Nikka_Katajainen #8 Posted 22 February 2020 - 08:07 PM

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IMHO it would be a poor move and a middle finger for those who don't have the tank.

It would also reflect poorly on WG as they would get flak for trying to go for a quick cash grab by having people rush to get the tanks before they get removed (and by "rush" I mean buying gold and credits to speed up the grind as much as possible).

NekoPuffer_PPP #9 Posted 22 February 2020 - 08:08 PM

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Where's the option "Don't change the tech tree"?

splash_time #10 Posted 23 February 2020 - 08:40 AM

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View Postpihip, on 22 February 2020 - 10:07 PM, said:

IMHO it would be a poor move and a middle finger for those who don't have the tank.

It would also reflect poorly on WG as they would get flak for trying to go for a quick cash grab by having people rush to get the tanks before they get removed (and by "rush" I mean buying gold and credits to speed up the grind as much as possible).

 

This is true, but recently, you can notice that there are a lot AMX 30s playing around. Which means people are already grinding, so I don't think it'll be that bad. 

Plus, it's one of the forgotten tanks, so rebalancing it is fair, it's not something we assume, but something just got delayed if you understand my point. :) 

 

View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 22 February 2020 - 10:08 PM, said:

Where's the option "Don't change the tech tree"?

 

Actually I thought about adding it Mr. NekoPuffer. But there wasn't a much related point to it, so I didn't add it. :)



ValkyrionX_TV #11 Posted 23 February 2020 - 09:47 AM

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View Postsaurilian, on 22 February 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

30B has amazing speed and STB-1 dpm. What do you want more?

 

maybe a decent penetration with both ammo types and better heat accuracy/speed? 



MeNoobTank #12 Posted 23 February 2020 - 10:04 AM

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View Postsaurilian, on 22 February 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

30B has amazing speed and STB-1 dpm. What do you want more?

 

30B is worse than STB in almsot every way since the STB buffs. There is like 0 reason to play 30B over STB-1.

 

 



Nikka_Katajainen #13 Posted 23 February 2020 - 11:41 AM

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View PostValkyrionX_TV, on 23 February 2020 - 09:47 AM, said:

maybe a decent penetration with both ammo types and better heat accuracy/speed? 


Penetration is fine, it's the gun moodiness that makes people facepalm. It's a thing with all French guns - stay perfectly still and fully aimed, and the shot will usually go where you want, but try to fire while moving even the tiniest bit or, heaven forbid, snapshot, and the shell will go into space.

Are there nation-flavored dispersion/accuracy formulas like there are in World of Warships that I'm unaware of?  :sceptic:



Celution #14 Posted 23 February 2020 - 12:14 PM

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The tanks shouldn't even be removed from the tech tree to begin with. While the AMX30 is quite the powerhouse from a tier 9 medium perspective, one cannot argue that both vehicles, but especially the AMX 30 B, are forced into a specific playstyle that the platform (the tank itself) isn't suitable for, and this has to do with many of the gun "soft" stats. The rework they did back in patch 9.20 left the AMX30B in a really awkward state.

 

Why is this?

 

Spoiler

 

I think the intention was for the branch to be mid range flankers that engage mostly from the side, using the overall flexibility of the platform to get into position. Overall map design aside (which also does play a role), tanks that have this role are supposed to be suitable at taking quick and efficient snapshots and using ridgelines efficiently. For this reason they did make the gun handling of both these vehicles outstanding, with great aim time and solid dispersion values, as well as adding some frontal turret armor.

 

However, especially in the case of the AMX 30 B, the massive cupola on top of the turret, combined with extremely weak turret cheeks and plenty of overmatchable armor zones scattered around the hull makes that the tank itself isn't suitable in this role at all. The tank platform screams for it to stay hidden at long range, but plenty of gun stats disallow this. Subpar shell velocity on the APCR and abysmal shell velocity on the HEAT means it will struggle hitting moving targets. Subpar HEAT penetration also doesn't promote long range, regardless of HEAT retaining its penetration value over distance. On top of this the base accuracy was nerfed into the ground from an excellent 0.3 to a rather poor 0.36, and the penetration was dropped to 248 on the APCR and 300 on the HEAT. Both these parameters further decrease efficiency at range, where especially 248 mm APCR struggles against armored targets at greater. However, it does have 410 m base view range, suggesting that it wants to be at range. All-in-all, the tank features an amalgamation of roles that don't synergize well with each other, basically being an example of jack-of-all-trades done wrong.

 

If you put the AMX 30 B in the role it was intended for, you'll end up taking one for the team every time due to exposing your weak cupola first, before being able to retaliate. In comparison, tanks well suited and balanced for this role are the Centurion AX and STB-1, which have rather reliable but not impenetrable turret armor, good flexibility and solid gun statistics to complement this (although the STB-1 has more of a defensive niche due to the wonky hydropneumatic suspension). One could even add the Object 140 to this list.

 

What can be done?

 

Due to the visual/physical dynamics of the platform itself, the AMX 30 B should be reverted into the role it had in the past; long range, frontal fire support. The Leopard 1 is now in a league of its own featuring higher alpha damge and having APCR instead of HEAT. There is no problem with the AMX 30 B competing in this role with a slightly different approach. As a start the AMX 30 B needs to receive the planned buffs that were scapped from patch 1.5.1. I personally think that the original shell velocity of 1525 and 1000 m/s respectively should be recovered. The top speed should be left as it is, where instead the rate of fire should be reduced a touch, say from 7.69 to 7.3 rounds/min.

 

There are of course far more interesting options that could be considered, such as making the HEAT the primary shell, with the APCR being the special shell. Alternatively they could reduce the height of the cupola to at least be as tall as on the AMX 30, but this may be a bridge too far at this point.

 

 

TL;DR:

 

The AMX 30 B has an identity crisis where the gun performance contradicts the overall tank platform, meaning it lacks synergy with itself. It should definitely be addressed, and the tanks shouldn't even be removed from the tech tree to begin with.

 

 


Edited by Celution, 23 February 2020 - 12:21 PM.


ThorgrimBrenadim #15 Posted 23 February 2020 - 01:52 PM

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View Postpihip, on 22 February 2020 - 08:07 PM, said:

IMHO it would be a poor move and a middle finger for those who don't have the tank.

It would also reflect poorly on WG as they would get flak for trying to go for a quick cash grab by having people rush to get the tanks before they get removed (and by "rush" I mean buying gold and credits to speed up the grind as much as possible).

 

Or it would make it more appealing when they offer it for sale. Giving them both a mini buff before removal would generate interest and that can help generate sales later even if it is for in-game silver but who knows for def they may put them as bond tanks or even as mission marathon tanks.



splash_time #16 Posted 23 February 2020 - 02:54 PM

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View PostThorgrimBrenadim, on 23 February 2020 - 03:52 PM, said:

 

Or it would make it more appealing when they offer it for sale. Giving them both a mini buff before removal would generate interest and that can help generate sales later even if it is for in-game silver but who knows for def they may put them as bond tanks or even as mission marathon tanks.

 

But honestly, it's way better to be buffed while it still available for credits rather than buying it buffed for bonds or gold. 

Probably WG will sell it just as they sold FV 215 for bonds in bonds shop.

What I'm trying to say, let them buff it as soon as possible, so people spend credits instead of other sources (at least!), because others including myself are not ready to pay bonds for a tank that wasn't buffed  while it was available for credits. :)



24doom24 #17 Posted 23 February 2020 - 02:58 PM

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Then I'd expect the Foch-155 to get a buff too. :)

Nitro_Tank #18 Posted 23 February 2020 - 04:47 PM

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View Post24doom24, on 23 February 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Then I'd expect the Foch-155 to get a buff too. :)

For sure, all the forgotten and creppy tanks deserve some love. There are just way too many tanks that are completely useless in todays world of tanks and it reduces diversity by alot. I'd love to hop onto older tanks that have been gathering dust in my garage and have a good game without feeling hopelessly outclassed(Hype 59).

 

30B is just mediocre at everything thus making it good in nothing and thats the downfall of the tank. Being fast and having good dpm means nothing when you have paper armour and bad accuracy. Either you are a sniper, or you are a brawler. Anything in between just blows.



Spurtung #19 Posted 24 February 2020 - 07:27 AM

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View Postpihip, on 22 February 2020 - 07:07 PM, said:

IMHO it would be a poor move and a middle finger for those who don't have the tank.

It would also reflect poorly on WG as they would get flak for trying to go for a quick cash grab by having people rush to get the tanks before they get removed (and by "rush" I mean buying gold and credits to speed up the grind as much as possible).

 

LOL?

 

Like the flak they got when FV215B, FV215b (183), AMX 50 Foch 155 were replaced? If you miss out, you'll miss out, but don't try to use false arguments to prevent you missing out.



undutchable80 #20 Posted 24 February 2020 - 08:36 AM

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What I don't understand is what happens if you have the Tier 9 AMX, in stock configuration, in your garage.

 

In the initial New Balance video from 8:17 on, WG mentions that "when you have any of these (T6+) vehicles in your garage when the update is released, it will remain in your garage. Moreover, it will be converted to a Special vehicle  and you'll get it in its top configuration. Even if you've not researched a single module for it yet. If you've previously researched and purchased a vehicle that is now removed from the branch, you'll automatically unlock the next vehicle, or the vehicle of a higher tier in the same tech tree."

In the case of the Jagdpanther 2 it seems straightforward: I don't own it yet, but if I unlock and buy it, leave it in its stock configuration, it will be turned into a special vehicle in its top configuration AND I get the Jagdtiger unlocked, without having played a single game in it. 

 

So, if you have the AMX 30 in stock configuration in your garage, how will that work in this case, since the AMX30B is also getting removed? 

- Will you get the AMX 30 fully elited, turned into a special vehicle AND you get the AMX 30B unlocked?

- Will you get the AMX 30 fully elited, turned into a special vehicle BUIT you DO NOT get the AMX 30B (since its also being removed)?

 

To top it off, in the article about the results of NB, WG further stated: "If these changes go into the main version, these vehicles, including those of Tier VI–X, will be accessible and available for purchase with credits. There’s no need to rush into researching these vehicles as you will be able to buy them at any time after the potential update goes live."

 

So, if one doesnt own the AMX 30 yet, what is the best / safest play here?

- Continue to grind the AMX 30 and buy it during discount?

And then what? Leave it stock or continue the grind to the 30B? (I know its not meta but I would like to have it). 

- Forget the grind to the AMX 30 and focus on the BC25 (since I already own the AMX 13 90) and buy them afterwards for credits like WG stated?

 

#confused. 

 

 






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