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The invisible tank


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TankBuzzsaw #1 Posted 29 February 2020 - 12:12 PM

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Greetings, tankers!

 

So I will go straight to the point: is it possible to make your tank completely undetectable, no matter what radio you're using or the fact you're pointing your spotting lasers on the general direction of a tank?

Here's what happened to me:

-battle with tier III-IV, Malinovka

We were winning, we had like 4 tanks advantage, and I was a Marder 38T always hiding in the bushes, always repositioning and ready to snipe; after 1 min, 4 of my teamamtes who rushed their base just died by the same tank from the same player, and I understood that player was a problem; I decided to run towards the enemy base to help, and then I got shot 1 time from that player who was on the coast of that river, and I couldn't shoot him; a teammate started capping the base, I stayed in my position in case that player decided to finish me off, but then I saw him shooting my teammate capping, and he destroyed him; I run to the enemy base, that player disappeared again from the minimap as all the other times; I stayed behind a bush capping, expecting him to come from the forest, as I couldn't find him anywhere with my radio; he ambushed me, from behind a rock, 3 shot and I was a wreck, I didn't see him circling around me at all, nothing on the radio, and it was driving a Cruiser IV with 80 hp;

 

-battle with tier III-IV, Mountain Pass

It was 4vs4, and I was driving a Lago; we rushed their base with me at full hp, a Stug IV B with half hp, a Somua SAO 40 with full hp and an AMX 40 who was a little far from the base; we saw 2-3 of our teammates die by FCM 36 and a A-20 camping in their base, so we knew we had to be careful; my radio showed me the last positions of the enemy tanks, but I couldn't see them at all; I started climbing the mountain to spot them, when I got shot 1 time from the A-20 from behind, then 2, 3, 4, my radio showed nothing, I pointed my gun mantlet in the general direction of the A-20 to spot it (he was shooting from the bushes), nothing at all; I died before I could shoot in the bushes, my teammates were there with me but even they didn't see the tank in the bushes at all, it was not shown in the map; we lost.

 

Double/triple bushes with full camo set OP, please nerf! :trollface:


Edited by TankBuzzsaw, 29 February 2020 - 05:46 PM.


hoveruss #2 Posted 29 February 2020 - 12:14 PM

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I suspect if you posted replays, all would become apparent. 

_6i6_ #3 Posted 29 February 2020 - 12:17 PM

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View PostTankBuzzsaw, on 29 February 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

Greetings, tankers!

 

So I will go straight to the point: is it possible to make your tank completely undetectable, no matter what radio you're using or the fact you're pointing your spotting lasers on the general direction of a tank?

Here's what happened to me:

-battle with tier III-IV, Malinovka

We were winning, we had like 4 tanks advantage, and I was a Marder 38T always hiding in the bushes, always repositioning and ready to snipe; after 1 min, 4 of my teamamtes who rushed their base just died by the same tank from the same player, and I understood that player was a problem; I decided to run towards the enemy base to help, and then I got shot 1 time from that player who was on the coast of that river, and I couldn't shoot him; a teammate started capping the base, I stayed in my position in case that player decided to finish me off, but then I saw him shooting my teammate capping, and he destroyed him; I run to the enemy base, that player disappeared again from the minimap as all the other times; I stayed behind a bush capping, expecting him to come from the forest, as I couldn't find him anywhere with my radio; he ambushed me, from behind a rock, 3 shot and I was a wreck, I didn't see him circling around me at all, nothing on the radio, and it was driving a Cruiser IV with 80 hp;

 

-battle with tier III-IV, Mountain Pass

It was 4vs4, and I was driving a Lago; we rushed their base with me at full hp, a Stug IV B with half hp, a Somua SAO 40 with full hp and an AMX 40 who was a little far from the base; we saw 2-3 of our teammates die by FCM 36 and a A-20 camping in their base, so we knew we had to be careful; my radio showed me the last positions of the enemy tanks, but I couldn't see them at all; I started climbing the mountain to spot them, when I got shot 1 time from the A-20 from behind, then 2, 3, 4, my radio showed nothing, I pointed my gun mantlet in the general direction of the A-20 to spot it (he was shooting from the bushes), nothing at all; I died before I could shoot in the bushes, my teammates were there with me but even they didn't see the tank in the bushes at all, it was not shown in the map; we lost.

 

When I suspected that A-20 was cheating and I sent him a message, he kindly replied 'Learn how to use bushes' and 'Play better of uninstall, bot'. The only possible explanation I had was he had Camo skill at 100%, Net equipment, Camo paint to maximize the camouflage, but to be undetectable even at 50m, while firing, seems a bit too suspicious to me; also, he only said he used bushes, so if he didn't have the full Camouflage set, it doesn't make sense unless cheating.

 

Without a replay you cannot get definite answers



Private_Miros #4 Posted 29 February 2020 - 12:21 PM

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Learn to use camo and bushes.

 

You can spot through one bush, go back behind two or more bushes and shoot while remaining hidden.

Your tanks also have view ports. If they are behind a building, but a part of your tank is exposed, he will see you, and you will never see him unless through proxy spotting.

 

In other words, don't call cheats when it's lack of knowledge, that's a recipe to me a fool out of yourself.

 

Also, replays always help.

 

 



unhappy__bunny #5 Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:01 PM

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Your radio does not do any spotting. It allows you to talk to your teams vehicles and therefore identify when the enemy is IF one of your team has spotted it and is within radio range of you.

splash_time #6 Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:07 PM

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Send replay, it helps.

Nishi_Kinuyo #7 Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:11 PM

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If he was undetected, then it was more than 50m.

And some tanks really can remain invisible until you're within those 50m.

 

And as always, uploading a replay to wotreplays.eu and linking it here will help to explain what has happened.

(Minor note: do be careful when using google to find the website, since there are a bunch of fakes floating around. The only real site is the http://wotreplays.eu/ one.)


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 29 February 2020 - 01:13 PM.


jack_timber #8 Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:15 PM

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A tank that has a high camo rating that can be increased by camo net, crew training, and double bushed, as explained above, can be nearly impossible to see apart from proxy spotting them, getting closer than 50m.

 



Orkbert #9 Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:17 PM

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View PostTankBuzzsaw, on 29 February 2020 - 12:12 PM, said:

 

 

 Net equipment, Camo paint to maximize the camouflage, but to be undetectable even at 50m, while firing, seems a bit too suspicious to me; also, he only said he used bushes, so if he didn't have the full Camouflage set, it doesn't make sense unless cheating.

 

Usually I have less kindly words for people who are quick with unsubstantiated accuses of cheating but I guess I'll do it differently today and explain what the enemy did:

 

He stood within 15m of the bush and spotted you.

He then backed up that the bush was more than 15m away and thus wouldn't lose its camo bonus when he would start shooting.

He then, unsurprisingly, started shooting.

 

 



gitgud_cannot #10 Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:18 PM

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Edited by gitgud_cannot, 29 February 2020 - 01:19 PM.


TankBuzzsaw #11 Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:11 PM

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Unfortunately, I don't have replays for the sake of saving space in my computer.

 

But you confirmed my thoughts about it: he had already the full Camo set (Camo skill maxed out, Net, Camo paint), plus the camouflage base value for a light tank, plus additive camouflage from three bushes.

The thing I wanted to know if it was really possible to achieve 100% undetection with all that, because it seems too strong: if you can't see a tank even when it's firing (you lose a certain percentage of camo when doing so), then the only way is to blind shoot, and hope you get the tank shooting at you.

 

View Postunhappy_bunny, on 29 February 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

Your radio does not do any spotting. It allows you to talk to your teams vehicles and therefore identify when the enemy is IF one of your team has spotted it and is within radio range of you.

 

I meant I was hoping to spot the A-20 and to make him visible on my radio, so that my teammates could shoot it down; but it didn't happen.

 

Thank you for the ones who replied politely.

To the ones who were behaving like that dude in the conversation...this is a game and sometimes it happens things are a little too 'cheap' to just find a good reason behind it, like the fact a light tank can become completely invisible, reaching 100% camo values with bushes; if you think that's a good reason to say things like 'Omg, git gud' or 'Learn how to play, n00b' I think you should remember that you started as a noob too and you also should have encountered those guys who outplayed you, and you didn't like it. :popcorn:


Edited by TankBuzzsaw, 29 February 2020 - 02:11 PM.


Balc0ra #12 Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:28 PM

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Just sounds like someone who knows how double bushes works on his own spotting.

 

View PostTankBuzzsaw, on 29 February 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

The thing I wanted to know if it was really possible to achieve 100% undetection with all that, because it seems too strong:

 

Camo is capped at 80% regardless.  So if your camo on the tank when stationary is 20%, and you get 50% from each of the two double bushes. It's still 80%. Meaning that your view range won't counter him unless you get way closer. Even when he is firing if he backs off, it still won't drop enough for you to spot him. As camo is only countered by view range. The more you have, the easier it will be to counter his camo factor and spot him, even past the 445m max range. But vs an 80% tank even with 445m view range, you still need to be at around 120m to spot him. 



jabster #13 Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:32 PM

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View PostTankBuzzsaw, on 29 February 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

Unfortunately, I don't have replays for the sake of saving space in my computer.

 

But you confirmed my thoughts about it: he had already the full Camo set (Camo skill maxed out, Net, Camo paint), plus the camouflage base value for a light tank, plus additive camouflage from three bushes.

The thing I wanted to know if it was really possible to achieve 100% undetection with all that, because it seems too strong: if you can't see a tank even when it's firing (you lose a certain percentage of camo when doing so), then the only way is to blind shoot, and hope you get the tank shooting at you.

 

 

I meant I was hoping to spot the A-20 and to make him visible on my radio, so that my teammates could shoot it down; but it didn't happen.

 

Thank you for the ones who replied politely.

To the ones who were behaving like that dude in the conversation...this is a game and sometimes it happens things are a little too 'cheap' to just find a good reason behind it, like the fact a light tank can become completely invisible, reaching 100% camo values with bushes; if you think that's a good reason to say things like 'Omg, git gud' or 'Learn how to play, n00b' I think you should remember that you started as a noob too and you also should have encountered those guys who outplayed you, and you didn't like it. :popcorn:


Your thoughts about it were they were cheating, are you going to edit your OP?



Private_Miros #14 Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:53 PM

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View PostTankBuzzsaw, on 29 February 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

 I think you should remember that you started as a noob too and you also should have encountered those guys who outplayed you, and you didn't like it. :popcorn:

 

Allow me to remember you that generally people get better by trying to understand their errors and what they don't understand, and not by looking at every possible explanation outside of an own mistake or lack of knowledge.

 

Now, let's all yell haxxx.



TomatoShooter #15 Posted 29 February 2020 - 03:25 PM

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View PostTankBuzzsaw, on 29 February 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Unfortunately, I don't have replays for the sake of saving space in my computer.

 

Crap argument, only save the last replay will only cost you <2Mb per game, after game copy to a different folder and voila, replay saved.



mjs_89 #16 Posted 29 February 2020 - 04:14 PM

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View Postgitgud_cannot, on 29 February 2020 - 01:18 PM, said:

 

Thanks, I always love it when that clip shows up.



Orkbert #17 Posted 29 February 2020 - 04:20 PM

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View Postmjs_89, on 29 February 2020 - 04:14 PM, said:

 

Thanks, I always love it when that clip shows up.

 

Heck, technically it even got examples of blindshooting bushes so it is relevant.



Nishi_Kinuyo #18 Posted 29 February 2020 - 06:12 PM

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View PostTomatoShooter, on 29 February 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

Crap argument, only save the last replay will only cost you <2Mb per game, after game copy to a different folder and voila, replay saved.

Under 2 Mebibytes? I dare say they're closer to 1 Mebibyte on average.

That means you need around a thousand of them to get to 1 Gibibyte of disk space.

And a typical storage drive has easily 500 Gigabytes of that.

So even saving replays and deleting them whenever there's an update is a quite valid strategy if you're so concerned about disk space.

 

E.g. my replays folder since I've got this PC has 1962 replays for a total disk space of 1,91 Gibibytes (2,06 Gigabyte).

Oh, and yes, I differentiate between Gibibytes and Gigabytes because Windows uses Gibibytes (1024^3) while storage drives use Gigabytes (1000^3)... :facepalm:



StronkiTonki #19 Posted 29 February 2020 - 07:31 PM

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Protip: Turn on saving replays.

You even have an option to only save the last replay, so it will automatically delete any replay that isn't your last battle.

That way, it won't use up much extra space on your hard drive.



Spurtung #20 Posted 01 March 2020 - 06:03 AM

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Can we agree such threads should be promptly locked when no replay is provided?




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