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Chinese Mobility from Tank to TD.


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The_Naa #1 Posted 01 March 2020 - 08:42 PM

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Heyo! :)

 

i do not much know about weight - engine power - specific power and how they fit together in the game.

but i do find it odd that on Chinese TD's the mobility and top speed is lower than on the Tank version of the same chassis.

 

WZ-131 VS WZ-131G FT

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The mobility is worse on the TD version even tho the Weight and horse power are about the same.


 

T-34-2 VS T-34-2G FT

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Here the difference is not that great untill you go into a battle.

the T-34-2G FT gets to 41Km/H on a flat road and takes a long time to get there and only reaches 50 on down hill,

while the T-34-2 gets to 50km/H rather easily on a flat ground.


 

WZ-111 1-4 VS WZ-111-1 FT

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here again is a scenario that in my opinion makes no sense.

 


 

WZ-111 VS WZ-111G FT

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Here i could see that the WZ-111G FT would accelerate slower due to specific power but it goes 15km/h slower too?


 

113 VS WZ-113G FT

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this is the only instance where the Changes makes sense imo

the WZ-113G FT is heavier and has less engine power so it could very well go slower.


 

WZ-120 VS WZ-120-1 FT

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this is just something that just keeps happening and happening and i have no idea why. :sceptic:

 

is there a logical explanation to this or is just random numbers on a tank to make it look like it makes some sense untill someone compares it to another tank?



Galan7891 #2 Posted 02 March 2020 - 12:03 AM

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Perhaps the reason is "balance"?Theoretically speaking ofcourse!

mjs_89 #3 Posted 02 March 2020 - 03:08 AM

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I sure would love a tier 6 TD with the mobility of a tier 7 LT...

NekoPuffer_PPP #4 Posted 02 March 2020 - 03:52 AM

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View Postmjs_89, on 02 March 2020 - 03:08 AM, said:

I sure would love a tier 6 TD with the mobility of a tier 7 LT...

 

So...a Hellcat...


 

Chinese TDs are the unicorn line in WoT. Among the rarest tanks on the battlefield... Starting with tier 8, they become slow and cumbersome, with unreliable armor.

 

Up to tier 7, mediocre glass cannons with no exceptional traits. One stand-out being the tier 7, with a 122mm gun option, though you'd be crazy to use it over the far more reliable 100mm.

 

They all suffer from atrocious ground resistance levels. A simple reduction of this soft stat for the ones up to tier 7, and a generous buff to the tier 8-10's armor (specifically, the "cheek" weakspots), would easily make these things more competitive.



Nishi_Kinuyo #5 Posted 02 March 2020 - 07:38 AM

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Oh, I know why, because all those TDs are fakes invented by Kongzhong.

samuelx43a #6 Posted 02 March 2020 - 12:22 PM

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you should note that they have very nice reverse speed, something which is underrated in a lot of cases. being able to go at almost 20 backwards in a casemate is a powerful tool

Cobra6 #7 Posted 02 March 2020 - 12:31 PM

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Well the WZ-131 was buffed with the light tank rebalance and it got more mobility then before. Beforehand it had mobility on par with the Type-62.

 

Cobra 6



The_Naa #8 Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:07 PM

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View Postsamuelx43a, on 02 March 2020 - 12:22 PM, said:

you should note that they have very nice reverse speed, something which is underrated in a lot of cases. being able to go at almost 20 backwards in a casemate is a powerful tool


i would not call 18km/h back wards better than 23km/h on the 131

nor would i call the 16km/h vs the 20km/h on the T-34-2

or the 18km/h, 16km/h and 16km/h backwards on the WZ TD's that powerful when the tank versions have 15 backwards, much faster forward, turn faster and have a turret.

The WZ-120 models are atleast somewhat similar

13:15 Added after 8 minute

View PostCobra6, on 02 March 2020 - 12:31 PM, said:

Well the WZ-131 was buffed with the light tank rebalance and it got more mobility then before. Beforehand it had mobility on par with the Type-62.

 

Cobra 6

:unsure:

Spoiler

 

sounds like a nerf to me.

13:24 Added after 16 minute

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 02 March 2020 - 07:38 AM, said:

Oh, I know why, because all those TDs are fakes invented by Kongzhong.

 

as they are fake there is no historical evidence that the TD conversion would have hampered the mobility of the chassis.

i could have bought that as a fact and as a reason why the mobility is so bad.


Edited by The_Naa, 02 March 2020 - 02:07 PM.


Geno1isme #9 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:13 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 02 March 2020 - 03:07 PM, said:

sounds like a nerf to me.

WZ-131 is the Light, not the TD.

 

The chinese T6+7 TDs are still pretty mobile given their firepower. Also mind that total weight isn't the only thing affecting mobility in practice, it also somewhat depends on how the weight is distributed. TDs having bigger guns could mean that their center mass is different than on the "normal" variants and required changes to transmissions and other equipment.

 

In the end it's just balancing numbers, logic is secondary. And there are far more illogical things in this game than minor mobility differences on related tanks.



gitgud_cannot #10 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:21 PM

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armored td with a mobility of a medium, hmmm, i think we already had something like that at tier 10.

tajj7 #11 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:23 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 02 March 2020 - 03:13 PM, said:

WZ-131 is the Light, not the TD.

 

The chinese T6+7 TDs are still pretty mobile given their firepower. Also mind that total weight isn't the only thing affecting mobility in practice, it also somewhat depends on how the weight is distributed. TDs having bigger guns could mean that their center mass is different than on the "normal" variants and required changes to transmissions and other equipment.

 

In the end it's just balancing numbers, logic is secondary. And there are far more illogical things in this game than minor mobility differences on related tanks.

 

And heavier shells as well, but to be honest its probably all just balance, they just didn't want to make them that fast, probably to not powercreept the Soviet turretless TD line. 



The_Naa #12 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:25 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 02 March 2020 - 04:13 PM, said:

WZ-131 is the Light, not the TD.

 

ah, yes. was thinking about the TD variant at the moment. :P

so thanks

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 02 March 2020 - 04:13 PM, said:

 

The chinese T6+7 TDs are still pretty mobile given their firepower. Also mind that total weight isn't the only thing affecting mobility in practice, it also somewhat depends on how the weight is distributed. TDs having bigger guns could mean that their center mass is different than on the "normal" variants and required changes to transmissions and other equipment.

 

In the end it's just balancing numbers, logic is secondary. And there are far more illogical things in this game than minor mobility differences on related tanks.

 

the WZ-131G FT is somewhat mobile but not as mobile as the WZ-131.

The T-34-2 is not mobile, it wants to be but its not.

 

and for balance i dont see why they need to be slow with bad armour.

the OBJ.268 line of tanks are at the same speed level, with bigger or just as big guns and better armour.

the OBJ.268 4 line of tanks are faster, with slightly smaller guns and better armour.

so in terms of game balance the loss in mobility makes no sense to me.

15:26 Added after 0 minute

View Postgitgud_cannot, on 02 March 2020 - 04:21 PM, said:

armored td with a mobility of a medium, hmmm, i think we already had something like that at tier 10.


indeed so the mobility nerf makes even less sense



TungstenHitman #13 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:31 PM

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I

 

Spoiler

 

Don't

 

Spoiler

 

Mind

 

Spoiler

 



Geno1isme #14 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:41 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 02 March 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

The T-34-2 is not mobile, it wants to be but its not.

It isn't the fastet tank in the world sure, but still pretty maneuvarable compared to most of its competitors.

 

View PostThe_Naa, on 02 March 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

the OBJ.268 line of tanks are at the same speed level, with bigger or just as big guns and better armour.

the OBJ.268 4 line of tanks are faster, with slightly smaller guns and better armour.

so in terms of game balance the loss in mobility makes no sense to me.

15:26 Added after 0 minute


indeed so the mobility nerf makes even less sense

Armor of T9+10 is pretty decent in my opinion, certainly better than that of the 268 line (the T8 could use some extra HP though). 268v4 line is fast when driving in a straight line, but very slugish when they have to turn, rather blind and don't bring the same firepower.

Personally I thing the chinese TDs are pretty decently balanced.



gitgud_cannot #15 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:48 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 02 March 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

It isn't the fastet tank in the world sure, but still pretty maneuvarable compared to most of its competitors.

 

Armor of T9+10 is pretty decent in my opinion, certainly better than that of the 268 line (the T8 could use some extra HP though). 268v4 line is fast when driving in a straight line, but very slugish when they have to turn, rather blind and don't bring the same firepower.

Personally I thing the chinese TDs are pretty decently balanced.

tier 9 yes, tier 10 no - 268 armor is probably bouncing more on average than tier 10 china td.



The_Naa #16 Posted 02 March 2020 - 04:59 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 02 March 2020 - 04:23 PM, said:

 

And heavier shells as well, but to be honest its probably all just balance, they just didn't want to make them that fast, probably to not powercreept the Soviet turretless TD line. 


i dont think the shells matter in this game.

i doubt i get a magical 10km/h more speed if i unload all my ammo and equipment.

 

View PostTungstenHitman, on 02 March 2020 - 04:31 PM, said:

I

 

Spoiler

 

Don't

 

Spoiler

 

Mind

 

Spoiler

 

 

neither do i, the tanks are fun but Still i want some sense into this madness.

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 02 March 2020 - 04:41 PM, said:

It isn't the fastet tank in the world sure, but still pretty maneuvarable compared to most of its competitors.

 

could be, but its way worse than what the chassis and engine can do.

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 02 March 2020 - 04:41 PM, said:

 

Armor of T9+10 is pretty decent in my opinion, certainly better than that of the 268 line (the T8 could use some extra HP though). 268v4 line is fast when driving in a straight line, but very slugish when they have to turn, rather blind and don't bring the same firepower.

Personally I thing the chinese TDs are pretty decently balanced.

 

the Chinese armour at tier 9 and 10 can stand regular ammo with proper angle or if the pen value is low on the ammo.

but will not stand a chance if the enemy presses to 2 key or has a high enough standard pen value.

 

the Chinese TD's  are balanced but they are not competitive.

they are slightly worse than the 268 line of tanks.

a speed buff imo would give the extra umph that they need to make them competitive.

 


Edited by The_Naa, 02 March 2020 - 05:02 PM.


samuelx43a #17 Posted 02 March 2020 - 07:30 PM

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Its a good argument, but I think they are good enough!. They give a different flavour, even though they are similar to the russians. I for one think that they are just fine!

 

The stock grind for the tier VIII does require a bit of sanity though



FatigueGalaxy #18 Posted 02 March 2020 - 10:14 PM

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Yes, it makes no sense. Those tanks are poorly balanced and WG probably doesn't care. IIRC they weren't even supposed to be introduced on EU/NA/RU because they are fakes by chinese company, but since WG started introducing fakes by themselves, they added them in.

This line offers good transition from light and medium to heavy vehicles but this transition is not smooth and way too harsh considering how fragile tier 7 and 8 are. It should be made smoother so their mobility equals their medium and heavium counterparts. Tier 9 has huge gun and workable armour so it's fine.



MeetriX #19 Posted 02 March 2020 - 10:23 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 02 March 2020 - 02:07 PM, said:


 

as they are fake there is no historical evidence that the TD conversion would have hampered the mobility of the chas

i could have bought that as a fact and as a reason why the mobility is so bad.

They look nose heavy.

Can not go as fast.



The_Naa #20 Posted 02 March 2020 - 10:56 PM

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View PostMeetriX, on 02 March 2020 - 10:23 PM, said:

They look nose heavy.

Can not go as fast.


that could be true for the WZ-111G FT

but the rest of them do not.

 

and there are plenty of back heavy tanks in-game that have no problem going fast either backwards or forward

and some more front heavy tanks as well that have no problem going fast forward.






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