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So one of my biggest fears may have finally materialized...


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Poll: High alpha damage guns (102 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Do you think high-alpha damage guns are detrimental to the game?

  1. Yes (34 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. No (47 votes [46.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.08%

  3. Hard to say (21 votes [20.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.59%

How do you feel about 750HP-damage dealing guns in Tier VIII (whether you're driving one with this potential or any other vehicle on the receiving end)?

  1. It's fine - Plenty of worse things (35 votes [34.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.31%

  2. It's annoying - But I can live with that (37 votes [36.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.27%

  3. It's wrong - And shouldn't exist (27 votes [26.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.47%

  4. Hard to say (3 votes [2.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

ISU-152K/BL-10...

  1. ...As a Premium Tank (10 votes [9.80%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.80%

  2. ...As a Reward Vehicle (11 votes [10.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.78%

  3. ...Back as Standard vehicle (29 votes [28.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.43%

  4. ...Does not interest me (46 votes [45.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.10%

  5. ...I don't know (6 votes [5.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

Vote Hide poll

WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 04 March 2020 - 08:55 PM

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In the current update, with most game rooms already infested with 3 or more of these vehicles which are almost uncounterable by discharging combination of absurdly high alpha damage and penetration from softcover, that is difficult to launch a counter-attack to where they immediately drive back to hardcover and your vehicle lays on the battleground up in flames or very close to it...

 

...ISU-152K.

 

I suppose it's alright, seeing as there are plenty of Tank Destroyers in the matchmaker, WG believes they should add even more - reaping more €€€ in the process - contributing to an already decaying game quality.

 

Do we want even more of these vehicles around...? Cannot speak for the majority but having these invisible 750HP-pugilists residing at Tier VIII is something rather dreadful. Borsig and the current Zveroboy are not popular but the BL-10 certainly is. And there are no shortage of whales willing to get it from what I've seen on TAP.

 

*sigh*

 

Disappointing that more and more premiums get stuffed, but this is a new low, in my opinion. Though one might argue nothing suggests this might be another one, the Tier this vehicle currently sits in, and good old predictable WG, tell me otherwise.

 

Your opinion on this?



Ringo_Star #2 Posted 04 March 2020 - 10:30 PM

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Premium version will only have around 20mm of pen more, everything else will be better on tech tree tank. Although it has high alpha, isu doesn't have mobility, armor and turret so it will not break the game. Most players will shoot once, get spotted, get reqt and then they will cry on the forum.

DaniulSims #3 Posted 04 March 2020 - 10:31 PM

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I'd have laughed my [edited]off if you'd have written this back when the ISU152 (which had the bl-10, with better soft stats than the one currently tested to boot) was extremely popular.

Now I'm just laughing.

Nishi_Kinuyo #4 Posted 04 March 2020 - 11:06 PM

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The ISU-152К only has better pen (+26/+37mm) and slightly better viewrange and  horizontal gun angles, at the cost of: worse DPM, worse speed, worse vertical gun angles, worse bloom values, worse camo values...

So tbh, I doubt its going to be as good as people hope it'll be.



Strappster #5 Posted 04 March 2020 - 11:10 PM

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I don't think ISU's are generally a problem, they're not good at bush camping and while it's annoying to be hit for 750 hp, it's not like it's a sniping auto-loader. I'm more annoyed at the BL-10 being taken off the tech tree version of the tank because reasons only to reappear on a premium.

SovietBias #6 Posted 05 March 2020 - 12:37 AM

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View PostStrappster, on 04 March 2020 - 10:10 PM, said:

 I'm more annoyed at the BL-10 being taken off the tech tree version of the tank because reasons only to reappear on a premium.

 

This.

 

Also, the current marathon revolves around a 720 damage burst LT/MT hybrid.


Edited by SovietBias, 05 March 2020 - 12:38 AM.


EMILY__BLUNT #7 Posted 05 March 2020 - 01:07 AM

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return bl10 on isu152

NekoPuffer_PPP #8 Posted 05 March 2020 - 01:07 AM

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The ISU-152K is a disgusting cash grab and you shouldn't accept it. Do not support this model of monetization.

StronkiTonki #9 Posted 05 March 2020 - 05:44 AM

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I don't have a big issue with eh 750 alpha guns. I don't often get hit by them. They're also not very accurate.

More annoyed at the Skorpions, SU-130PM's and 10 gazillion autoloaders and their varieties.

 

Been saying it for months, the reason why battles last like 4 minutes is because tanks have too much firepower.

Time to kill has basically gone down significantly. Why? Because so many tanks have high alpha and autoloaders.

 

You pop out once to take a shot? Enjoy a 440 Defender shell and a 490 Skorp shell. Maybe 2 shots from any kind of autoloader as well.

What are you left with? 0-300 HP?

You're on reload or caught alone somewhere? Enjoy getting YOLO'd by one of the 10 gazillion autoloaders the game has to offer:

-Czech meds

-French TDs

-French meds

-French lights

-French heavies

-Italian meds

-Swedish heavies

-A few American tanks

-Double barreled heavies

 

Including plenty of popular premiums that you see in almost any match: EBR, Lorraine, Progetto, Bourrasque, Emil, Somua SM, Skoda

 

Now I'm not saying these things are bad individually. But over the years there's just been so many of these things added, that the game has slowly changed to a state where taking any risk is basically not worth it anymore.

You take any small risk, and you'll lose a significant chunk of your health at an instant.

Plenty of times I've been at full health, and I take a small risk that gets me spotted, and I instantly just get so many shots slammed into me, either by something with high alpha, or an autoloader just hitting me multiple times.

 

DPM is imho in most cases pretty useless. If a target gets spotted somewhere in the open, you're only gonna get 1 shot on the target, because before you're reloaded, I guarantee that all the high alpha on your team will have killed it first.

 

I remember a time where I could take a risk in a battle, maybe take a hit or two, but still have plenty of HP left to play the remainder of the battle with.

Now everything just feels like low tier, where everyone's a 3 shot. Which in many cases you literally are!



Spurtung #10 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:16 AM

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View PostSovietBias, on 04 March 2020 - 11:37 PM, said:

Also, the current marathon revolves around a 720 damage burst LT/MT hybrid.

 

"current"?



splash_time #11 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:37 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 05 March 2020 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

"current"?

 

He meant the fat chat I believe. 

 

And since when ISUs are dangerous? Every time I meet one he was spamming HE.

And overall? 

One has alpha and penetration but no DPM.

one has DPM and decent speed but not penetration. 

And one is just existing (tech tree).

And one is just, well, at T7 to have fun by playing it? (I never seen anyone who plays it).

 



AeyT #12 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:40 AM

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I think super high alpha boomsticks are annoying to play against and bad for the game.

That tank looks like its gonna be a RNG fiesta and 9/10 times its going to miss. Thats 1/10 times is not going to be fun though.



kaneloon #13 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:43 AM

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Each tree tank will soon have it's premium evil twin, who's next ?

MeNoobTank #14 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:44 AM

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I don't know about ISU but on the heavy tanks WG should have never passed the 400 alpha mark.

 

440 and 490 alpha guns on heavys should be only on tier 9 and 10.

 

it is very fun to be in your tier 6 and getting shot with a highroll from a 490 alpha VK. Atleast Skorp is cheese and you can do damage to him back in your T6 but against a VK or Defender...



tajj7 #15 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:46 AM

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Somewhat agree though I think as with many problems in the game this problem is made a lot worse by poor map design, if we didn't have maps that massively favoured base camping noobs, I think people would be less bothered by the amount of TDs about.

 

The problem is you have many maps where people can drive 50m from where they spawn, show zero intention of trying to win the game, and they get very strong positions that are very hard to counter, basically rewarding passive play and punishing people for trying to win map control. 

 

When you have such maps and then a MM flooded with high alpha TDs, then the gameplay suffers and you groan when you enter the game because you know that whatever you do these base camping bots will probably get to farm a lot of damage and be a complete pain to dig out from their OP camping spots/

 

I do also think 750 alpha in one shot on tier 8 is just too high, there has been too much alpha power creep on tier 8 recently. 



MeNoobTank #16 Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:53 AM

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Yes, map design very bad. You can see from the old SD maps to HD new maps videos side by side. They removed on all maps most of the hills, bushes and trees from the mid and moved them all on the sides behind the cap. Now we have empty mid with flat terrain and 2-3 bushes at the back for noobs to sit in all game. Also full arty to punish anyone who dare to move forward from his bush.

HerrWizo #17 Posted 05 March 2020 - 10:03 AM

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ISU152 is not a problem, never was actually, not even in the days of its former glory. It is a one-trick pony, which will in most cases end up dead after firing a single shell. Having a turret is a major reason why SU-130PM is way better, regardless of lower alpha. No turret = turd, no matter the alpha. Besides, spotting them is quite easy, since their gun is huge and breaks camo tremendously after shooting.

SovietBias #18 Posted 05 March 2020 - 07:30 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 05 March 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

 

"current"?

 

The Bourrasque challenge.



Nikka_Katajainen #19 Posted 05 March 2020 - 07:59 PM

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OP, I think you're overreacting.

Do you see many ISUs in game these days? I don't, have not for months in fact, to the point the tank has become quite the rare sight. It's far easier to see a Skorpion or a SU-130PM or one of the Swedish wedges, and I find those FAR more dangerous than ISU-152 will ever be.

StronkiTonki #20 Posted 05 March 2020 - 08:03 PM

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View PostMeNoobTank, on 05 March 2020 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't know about ISU but on the heavy tanks WG should have never passed the 400 alpha mark.

 

440 and 490 alpha guns on heavys should be only on tier 9 and 10.

 

it is very fun to be in your tier 6 and getting shot with a highroll from a 490 alpha VK. Atleast Skorp is cheese and you can do damage to him back in your T6 but against a VK or Defender...

 

Absolutely. I remember 390 being the "high alpha" that the IS-3 had on tier 8.

Then they introduced the T34 premium heavy after it got shifted from tier 9 to a premium tier 8.

It was unique because of it's 400 alpha gun, giving it the highest alpha of any heavy.

But TD's were still unique that they had higher alpha guns. Like the Ferdinand with 490.

Getting hit for 750 was rare, since the ISU-152 was the only tank with that kind of alpha, and it was slow to move and take aim, and had poor accuracy.

 

Back then, having high alpha meant that you had to sacrifice mobility and the convenience of a turret.

It started going into the wrong direction with the German glass canon TD line. A new type of TD was born, with tier 8 and 9 having turrets and super high alpha.

Tier 7 didn't have a turret, but it did introduce 490 alpha to tier 7.

Mobility wasn't too great on these vehicles however.

The British TD's had turrets and mobility, but mostly DPM guns instead of high alpha guns.

Until most of them got buffed with high alpha guns, because too many people were unhappy with the lower alpha.

 

A good example of more balanced turreted TD's would be the American line.

No crazy alpha anywhere in the line, with maybe the T30 standing out at tier 9. Even though it was pretty slow and has a weak hull. And 750 not being all too rare on tier 9.

 

We've seen the Russian assault TD line getting buffed with higher alpha and more armor as well.

I remember playing the SU-100M1 and SU-101 back before the buff. They were fine machines that relied on DPM and relocating. The armor could be troll, but nothing to rely on.

Then I saw they were getting higher alpha, which made me roll my eyes, because they didn't need it.

They also got armor buffs, and now imho the SU-101 is just OP.

 

Then more and more premiums with high alpha got introduced.

Skorpions being the #1 offender.

Also got plenty of SU-130PM's.

Defenders and Polish tanks with 440 and 420 alpha.

German superheavies and premium heavy with 490 alpha.

And don't forget double barrelled tanks that practically have 780 alpha.

 

I'll say it again: 390 used to be high on tier 8. Now it's average. Health has not been buffed, so people die faster on these tiers. And that's why the battles are so short.

Tanks used to have multiple weaknesses. They had to sacrifice multiple things to gain a big alpha gun. Like lacking a turret, lacking in mobility as well.

Now most tanks are just a combination of godlike stats, and only having 1 real weakness that doesn't really matter all too much.

Defender has bas accuracy? Doesn't matter if it can just hold W and push anyone with it's armor to derp 440 alpha in their face.

Skorpion has no armor and bad camo? Doesn't matter if it redlines behind 445 metres, and has the accuracy and pen to snipe from those distances AND the mobility to keep relocating. And a sweet turret to help as well.

 

Compare a Skorpion G to a Jagdpanther II or something and see that it practically makes no sacrifices.

JP had 100 whole more DPM. Does not matter in a game dominated by alpha.

Skorp has better aim time AND accuracy, despite having a freaking turret! Heck, even without the turret, having a 2.1 sec aimtime and 0.30 accuracy over 2.3 and 0.35 would have already been worth it for 100 less DPM.

JP has better gun soft stats. Which makes sense, since it doesn't have a turret. But it still needs to move the entire hull, which a Skorpion does not need to do.

Skorp also has slightly better top speed of 60 over 55 and much better power to weight of 17 over 13.18.

And don't forget the better reverse speed of 20 over 12, making it able to pop back in cover a lot easier. Even though that is already easier with a TURRET.

Both vehicles practically have no armor. I guess the Skorp has worse armor, and the JP has a somewhat good superstructure that can bounce.

 

But honestly, would it ever be worth it to play a JP II over a Skorp? Hellno! Not in a million years.

Even if the Skorpion would be a casemade TD like a JP II with the same stats, it would already be a better vehicle. But still in a more acceptable way. But on top of being a better vehicle it also gets a freakin' turret, cause why not?






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