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Arty outspotting tanks (logic)

Arta Tier 10 SPG MT HT LT Spotting_Mechanics

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Lanrefni #41 Posted 19 March 2020 - 01:22 AM

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View PostDaniulSims, on 19 March 2020 - 12:22 AM, said:

 

For someone as actively aggressive in telling people they're wrong on other threads you surely can cope up with stuff you don't like.

 Because I am always right, stop doubting me, bot.


Edited by Lanrefni, 19 March 2020 - 01:23 AM.


roboslash #42 Posted 19 March 2020 - 02:17 AM

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View PostLanrefni, on 19 March 2020 - 01:22 AM, said:

 Because I am always right, stop doubting me, bot.


I really can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not...



SuperOlsson #43 Posted 19 March 2020 - 10:32 AM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 18 March 2020 - 02:42 PM, said:

 

They all work. Do you have examples of some of them not working? 

 

Yep, prokhorovka hill, each side gets a row of bushes at the hill ridge at 9-0 line (north side gets a couple more bushes), from both sides, the bush closest to the redline does not work properly, as in if you do not sit in any of those you will spot enemies crawling up the wrong wrong one on the other side, and vice versa, very useful for farming assisted damage.



tajj7 #44 Posted 19 March 2020 - 10:59 AM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 18 March 2020 - 01:42 PM, said:

 

They all work. 

 

No they don't. 



Tealo #45 Posted 19 March 2020 - 11:28 AM

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Well there is a off-chance that the Arty player knew how to actually play Artillery for a start instead of doing what most do by putting a camo net on something more blind than a heavy tank with almost if not a worse camo rating than a heavy tank They instead used :unsure:

 Any guesses???

   

Spoiler

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

ohh everyone has already mention the Binos thing my bad for skipping most of the posted comments and not fully reading the thread :facepalm:


Edited by Tealo, 19 March 2020 - 11:34 AM.


24doom24 #46 Posted 19 March 2020 - 11:43 AM

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View PostSuperOlsson, on 19 March 2020 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

Yep, prokhorovka hill, each side gets a row of bushes at the hill ridge at 9-0 line (north side gets a couple more bushes), from both sides, the bush closest to the redline does not work properly, as in if you do not sit in any of those you will spot enemies crawling up the wrong wrong one on the other side, and vice versa, very useful for farming assisted damage.

I concur. I got spotted in my 140 moving up to those bushes (I have a full BIA camo crew with vents). Yet I'm unspotted when moving up to the bushes right beside those. They are visibly the same bush so his "foliage" argument doesn't make sense here either.


Edited by 24doom24, 19 March 2020 - 11:44 AM.


Whisky_Tango #47 Posted 19 March 2020 - 11:51 AM

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View PostLanrefni, on 17 March 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

It just baffles me if and when artillery outspots my tanks while being in a bush itself, and when I have maxed camo. Such way, it ruined me an 8k game yesterday in AMX 50 B (was won, in any case). Another time was when I was somehow outspotted in my Škoda T 50, and obviously, instantly shotgunned from a distance, probably with a snapshot, which triggers me even harder

 

 

Can someone explain how and/or why it happens so often?

50B is a huge tank :) maby your turret or cupola was exposed ...



LethalWalou #48 Posted 19 March 2020 - 02:22 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 19 March 2020 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

No they don't. 

 

They do work, absolutely nothing wrong with them.

You are free to argue your case and prove me wrong. Use calculations btw.

13:31 Added after 8 minute

View PostSuperOlsson, on 19 March 2020 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

Yep, prokhorovka hill, each side gets a row of bushes at the hill ridge at 9-0 line (north side gets a couple more bushes), from both sides, the bush closest to the redline does not work properly, as in if you do not sit in any of those you will spot enemies crawling up the wrong wrong one on the other side, and vice versa, very useful for farming assisted damage.

 

If there is already someone from south on the hill (like physically on the hill, next to the north sides row of bushes), they will spot you moving into the bushes in a certain angle. I've done this multiple times while being on the hill, both unspotted and spotted. And also the enemies have managed to crawl into those same bushes unspotted even though I was there, and outspotted me once I move so that only 1 bush covers me. It's a combination of tall enough tanks and a correct angle and depending if you are covered by 1 or 2 bushes. The south side gets spotted whenever they shoot and some tanks whenever they move as the distances are not that great. Also south side can climb to the bush in a way that part of their tank is not covered by a bush. Same happens on Overlord if a too tall tank tries to get into the middle bushes at an wrong angle.

 

The bushes furthest away from the red line for south side are also not broken. At that point you are well within spotting range to anyone in the middle. So even if you have a bush towards the hill covering you, they can and will spot you from middle if they have enough viewrange or if you shoot.


Edited by LethalWalou, 19 March 2020 - 02:33 PM.


Captain_Kremen0 #49 Posted 19 March 2020 - 03:10 PM

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So once again we have experienced forumites in a debate about bush mechanics and spotting.

Please remember that you yourselves can't agree on things before criticising new players when they ask.



Immensive #50 Posted 19 March 2020 - 03:41 PM

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For me most bushes on Phroko are working, but there is still bushes on the hill that didn´t work like they should.

 

Gonna show my experience in randoms on some screenshots. The bush pointed out is always the bush where the triangle starts. (Note: The scenario for the 1st and 2nd one is, that you use the bush to outspot the tank, move back until there is no more transparency and shoot after that.)

Spoiler

 



Private_Miros #51 Posted 19 March 2020 - 03:54 PM

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View PostTealo, on 19 March 2020 - 10:28 AM, said:

Well there is a off-chance that the Arty player knew how to actually play Artillery for a start instead of doing what most do by putting a camo net on something more blind than a heavy tank with almost if not a worse camo rating than a heavy tank They instead used :unsure:

 Any guesses???

   

Spoiler

    

ohh everyone has already mention the Binos thing my bad for skipping most of the posted comments and not fully reading the thread :facepalm:

 

Is there any reason not to go rammer, vents, GLD on arty though?

 

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 19 March 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

So once again we have experienced forumites in a debate about bush mechanics and spotting.

Please remember that you yourselves can't agree on things before criticising new players when they ask.

 

Well, you have details and you have basics. The basics are quite clear. Be fully covered by a bush to not be spotted as soon as in the open. Only shoot behind two bushes or fall enough behind a bush to be spotted even later. Know that far behind a bush or behind multiple bushes you are basically blind.


Edited by Private_Miros, 19 March 2020 - 03:55 PM.


Homer_J #52 Posted 19 March 2020 - 04:00 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 19 March 2020 - 02:54 PM, said:

 

Is there any reason not to go rammer, vents, GLD on arty though?

 

Yes.  Not many arty can take vents.  Tier X French one can't take a rammer.



LethalWalou #53 Posted 19 March 2020 - 04:45 PM

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View PostImmensive, on 19 March 2020 - 02:41 PM, said:

For me most bushes on Phroko are working, but there is still bushes on the hill that didn´t work like they should.

 

Gonna show my experience in randoms on some screenshots. The bush pointed out is always the bush where the triangle starts. (Note: The scenario for the 1st and 2nd one is, that you use the bush to outspot the tank, move back until there is no more transparency and shoot after that.)

Spoiler

 

 

On the last one, if the green tank is more to the left and a bit to south, the north tank can get to the bushes unspotted and spot you in return. The bushes aren't in a nice, clean row which is the main reason this can be done. Important thing is to think ''how did I get spotted'' instead of blaming bushes to be broken right away. Of course the latter thought process has been working for people and it has meant that it's hard to spot people in Fisherman's Bay middle nowadays for example. So even though they don't understand how they get spotted, they generally don't hang around in a position where they would get spotted.

 

And if I may borrow your picture, these bushes iirc are the ones, for north to use, that are within the spotting range from the middle so if south has tanks in middle, they can and will in some cases spot you even if you don't shoot.







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