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Hechaton #1 Posted 22 March 2020 - 11:55 AM

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In my experience most of the time, the average damage roll is way lower than the "average damage" seen in the gun stats. This pretty much applies to all tanks and guns. The roll usually get lower when hitting tanks in the front and higher when hitting sides or back. 

My question is, how is the "average damage" in the stats measured? Is this another one of WG's rubbish/misleading stats?



Private_Miros #2 Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:02 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 10:55 AM, said:

In my experience most of the time, the average damage roll is way lower than the "average damage" seen in the gun stats. This pretty much applies to all tanks and guns. The roll usually get lower when hitting tanks in the front and higher when hitting sides or back. 

My question is, how is the "average damage" in the stats measured? Is this another one of WG's rubbish/misleading stats?

 

Normal AP, APCR, HEAT shells do damage upon penetration, and that damage is -25 to +25% of the average damage. It doesn't matter where on the tank you penetrate.

 

If you log the damaging rolls, you'll see it averages out pretty well, you get as many high as well as low damage rolls.

 

Now, there are a few points here:

- if you count damage rolls, don't count those with which you killed a tank, because the majority of those shots will be under your average damage.

- the shots you roll low and that cost you a kill are disproportionately well-remembered. Everyone notices that, while a maximum damage roll on a full HP tank earlier in game is usually forgotten.



MeetriX #3 Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:04 PM

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Avg dmg is not measured it is fixed gun statistic (with -+25% variable)

Orkbert #4 Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:25 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 11:55 AM, said:

 

 

Is this another one of WG's rubbish/misleading stats?

 

No, it's confirmation bias on your end.

 

Consecutive replays, please.



Hechaton #5 Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:34 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 22 March 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

 

Normal AP, APCR, HEAT shells do damage upon penetration, and that damage is -25 to +25% of the average damage. It doesn't matter where on the tank you penetrate.

 

If you log the damaging rolls, you'll see it averages out pretty well, you get as many high as well as low damage rolls.

 

Now, there are a few points here:

- if you count damage rolls, don't count those with which you killed a tank, because the majority of those shots will be under your average damage.

- the shots you roll low and that cost you a kill are disproportionately well-remembered. Everyone notices that, while a maximum damage roll on a full HP tank earlier in game is usually forgotten.

 

Sounds reasonable, but where does the initial value come from???

 



barison1 #6 Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:37 PM

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you could always verify it for yourself, note down all shots you take which arent a killshot and calculate the average out of it, does need like 100 shots for any kind of reliable outcome roughly estimated. if more interested you could plot a graph with those data and see if a pattern comes out

jabster #7 Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:38 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 22 March 2020 - 11:02 AM, said:

 

Normal AP, APCR, HEAT shells do damage upon penetration, and that damage is -25 to +25% of the average damage. It doesn't matter where on the tank you penetrate.

 

If you log the damaging rolls, you'll see it averages out pretty well, you get as many high as well as low damage rolls.

 

Now, there are a few points here:

- if you count damage rolls, don't count those with which you killed a tank, because the majority of those shots will be under your average damage.

- the shots you roll low and that cost you a kill are disproportionately well-remembered. Everyone notices that, while a maximum damage roll on a full HP tank earlier in game is usually forgotten.


The first point is slightly different as you shouldn’t count any shots where you can’t potentially do maximum damage.



Hechaton #8 Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:43 PM

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View PostOrkbert, on 22 March 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:

 

No, it's confirmation bias on your end.

 

Consecutive replays, please.

 

Some of the in-game values are kind of inacurate or misleading in my opinion. Read traverse speed, aiming time. 

Do you even understand why I ask the question?

 



Private_Miros #9 Posted 22 March 2020 - 11:17 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

 

Sounds reasonable, but where does the initial value come from???

 

 

It's the base value... It's like the base penetration stat, the camo stats, the terrain resistance stats, etc...

They are the product of (sometimes wobbly) balancing.



MeetriX #10 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:12 AM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 10:43 PM, said:

 

Some of the in-game values are kind of inacurate or misleading in my opinion. Read traverse speed, aiming time. 

Do you even understand why I ask the question?

 

That's because some values also has hidden that affect the stats, but damage and pen are what they are.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:43 AM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 11:55 AM, said:

In my experience most of the time, the average damage roll is way lower than the "average damage" seen in the gun stats. This pretty much applies to all tanks and guns. The roll usually get lower when hitting tanks in the front and higher when hitting sides or back. 

My question is, how is the "average damage" in the stats measured? Is this another one of WG's rubbish/misleading stats?

 

I'm just going to chalk this down to your overactive imagination coupled with a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

 

Unless of course you have some actual data you can show to back that up?



1ucky #12 Posted 23 March 2020 - 08:24 AM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 11:55 AM, said:

In my experience most of the time, the average damage roll is way lower than the "average damage" seen in the gun stats. This pretty much applies to all tanks and guns. The roll usually get lower when hitting tanks in the front and higher when hitting sides or back. 

(...)

If this is an honest account of your 55k battles worth of experience, then it's pretty obvious what's going on:

You're shooting HE.

 

Try using AP/APCR/HEAT, and the damage numbers will match the paper stats / averages more closely. As long as your shots pen of course...



Homer_J #13 Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:40 AM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:

 

Some of the in-game values are kind of inacurate or misleading in my opinion. Read traverse speed, aiming time. 

They are only misleading if you don't make the effort to find out how they work.

 

View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

 

Sounds reasonable, but where does the initial value come from???

 


It's the number they show you in game.  So if it says 100 penetration/damage it can roll anywhere from 75 to 125 with a bias toward the middle.



Orkbert #14 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:58 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 22 March 2020 - 10:43 PM, said:

 

Do you even understand why I ask the question?

 

 

It is because you are subject to confirmation bias.

 

If you get get low rolls "most of the time" then why did it take me less than five minutes to find these:

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4911827#teams

 

Your gun has 250 alpha, you have two penetrating shots, yet the damage registered is 527

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4985895#teams

 

Your gun has 240 alpha, you get five penetrating shots yet the damage registered is 1245

 

(there also was a bunch of other matches but in those the OP also destroyed some tanks so there was no telling how many damage he lost on those)

 

Hence why we need consecutive replays.

 



Hechaton #15 Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:43 PM

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Yes, there it is all the usual allegations, accusations and presumtions. Not many of you have a convincing explanation. Do I suggest noone actually knows how it's measured?

I would say any data that claim to be right but is sligtly off is kinda misleading, but that's just me.

 


Edited by Hechaton, 23 March 2020 - 09:49 PM.


jabster #16 Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:48 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 23 March 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

Yes, there it is all the usual allegations, accusations and presumtions. Not many of you have a convincing explanation. Do I suggest noone actually knows how it's measured?


Well I for one am looking forward to when you post the data you’re going to collect. Shall we say end of next week?


Edited by jabster, 23 March 2020 - 09:49 PM.


Private_Miros #17 Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:49 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 23 March 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

Yes, there it is all the usual allegations, accusations and presumtions. Not many of you have a convincing explanation. Do I suggest noone actually knows how it's measured?

 

They take the gun in real life, shoot it at a target and see how much hit points it lost.

 

The preferred target is political dissidents.

 

There, happy?



Orkbert #18 Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:59 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 23 March 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:

Yes, there it is all the usual allegations, accusations and presumtions.

 

And what was your opening post if not the very same?

 

Also I notice that you refuse to comment on the replays that I found showing you doing above average damage.



MeetriX #19 Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:00 PM

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Damage dealt / number of shots = Avg. Dmg.

TungstenHitman #20 Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:20 PM

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When you scroll your cursor over the shell options in the garage it shows the min-max damage roll potential from each shell type. When you scroll your cursor over the gun the shows the average damage for that each shell shell type. 

 

I'm guessing that just like accuracy, that damage also tends to get conformed to somewhat central value and that just like accuracy, hitting the outer circle, or in this case, dramatically high or low rolls, are somewhat rare and that most all shots will not drift away too much from the middle in terms of damage returns. So while +-25% is possible, I'm guessing that by game design, most shots will return damage within a +-10-15% range with the odd shot rolling dramatically into the deep end of low or high rolls.

 

Can a shot roll to the max? Well I got such a delicious high roll the other day(are we talking about something that gets smoked?) that I actually decided to check that standard AP shells damage values as it was so high I thought I was gone mad and accidentally loaded a HE which I knew I didn't but the damage was making me doubt myself and true enough, not just a high roll, but the maximum high roll on the scale.

 

I actually never saw that happen in this game ever before and we're not talking about an ammo rack or fire etc, just a pure clean pen and damage, nothing more, the full high roll. Feels good if your the other guy. :trollface:

 

 

 

 

 






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