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Collector vehicles kind of dissapointing


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gitgud_cannot #1 Posted 23 March 2020 - 04:45 PM

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This will be quite a disappointment for a lot of players, that have researched all the upcoming collector vehicles, especially high tier ones.

One thing is that they will become available even for players that didn't grind those tech tree lines, but most importantly no xp compensation, as far as i can tell from article, fr those who have researched all of those tech tree lines, not only that - you wont even be able to play those vehicles as crew trainers, as many of us thought - you will still need a dedicated crew for every tank, imho this is just wrong, especially for players that have invested their time to grind xp for every one of those tanks - shouldn't there be at least some kind of compensation, like making those tanks as a reward vehicles(no crew retraining) for those who have them already researched?

 

After 1.9 goes live people will be able to get those vehicles without any xp spent, if article has not lost some important features in translation from Russian. I understand that this game is a property of WG, but damn, once again, some players will get stuff for free - no need to spend time/credits grinding. The rest - just suck it up i guess.

 

What is the main difference between Collectors’ Vehicles and regular researchable vehicles? Do I need to retrain crews to reassign them to Collectors' Vehicles?

The main difference is in how they are obtained—you don't need to spend XP on researching Collectors’ Vehicles. In all other game aspects (economics, retraining of crews, etc.), regular and collectible vehicles are identical.

p.s. if i made my thoughts kind of unclear - im not asking for a xp or credit compensation, but it would be reasonable to apply different rules for collector vehicles for players who already have them researched and players who doesnt have them researched. removing crew penalty for every tank that has been researched prior to update 1.9 would be the least that wg could do, otherwise i really dont see the point of this change, otherwise than making all of those vehicles unavailable for newcomers.


Edited by gitgud_cannot, 23 March 2020 - 04:54 PM.


Homer_J #2 Posted 23 March 2020 - 04:58 PM

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Yeah, if the only compensation I'm getting for having the T-62A in my garage is a T-62A that Steve will be able to buy because he has the IS-7 unlocked it seems a little unfair.

 

When we thought they would be special vehicles and hard to get hold of then that was OK.

 

Not really sure how they can back pedal this one though.  They could give me the OBJ-140 since I don't have it researched  but I have all the other tier X French tanks.


Edited by Homer_J, 23 March 2020 - 05:00 PM.


gitgud_cannot #3 Posted 23 March 2020 - 04:59 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 23 March 2020 - 05:58 PM, said:

Yeah, if the only compensation I'm getting for having the T-62A in my garage is a T-62A that Steve will be able to buy because he has the IS-7 unlocked it seems a little unfair.

exactly



Homer_J #4 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:04 PM

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I've added to my post above.

 

I can see this getting a lot of negative feedback and there will be some change but after promising everyone they can get these so easily I don't know what they can do for those who already have all tanks researched.



Folau #5 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:07 PM

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So I get to skip grinding out the AMX30B and 113 because I already have Tier 10s from that tree?

 

I mean... sure I guess that makes sense somehow...



gitgud_cannot #6 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:10 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 23 March 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:

I've added to my post above.

 

I can see this getting a lot of negative feedback and there will be some change but after promising everyone they can get these so easily I don't know what they can do for those who already have all tanks researched.

Yeah, i mean, its great for players who has started playing recently, basically get free stuff, just grind some credits and buy collector tanks. For everyone who has researched pretty much everything, a bit different story.

 


Edited by gitgud_cannot, 23 March 2020 - 05:12 PM.


SteVer1n0 #7 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:16 PM

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What those other people miss out on is the opportunity to play the tank now, before the changes happen. If you have had a T-62A since, say, 2014, you've had 5+ years of play time on it that the other person doesn't.

 

Let's use a real-life, fictional analogy. Let's say you live in a country where nobody gets free healthcare at all, and you're a type 1 diabetic. You paid a one-time lump sum of $50 000 for a lifetime's supply of insulin when you were 18, and you're 60 years old now. Yesterday, your country passed a new law, saying insulin is now free for all diabetics. The other 60 year old diabetics who would have gotten this free insulin (not having to spend XP to research the 62A), are now dead. Because they didn't pay for insulin back in the day when they were 18, like you. On the other hand, this policy will help new diabetics (read, newer players) have a better life. It's a very egotistical way of looking at things.

 

Just because you "got yours" doesn't mean you have to be a gatekeeper to other people, World of Tanks has a closed economy and the real value of your tanks does not depend on scarcity. The value you assign to this "digital scarcity" of your tanks is all in your head. The Kanonenjagdpanzer 105 is rare, but that doesn't mean it's worth a lot, the tank is crap. The only way it would affect the real value of your account is if you were to sell it on the open market, which is against the ToS.

 

Bottom line is, millionaires shouldn't be crying about government handouts to those below the poverty line, because it stimulates economic activity, which ultimately fuels my DPG.



gitgud_cannot #8 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:50 PM

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View PostSteVer1n0, on 23 March 2020 - 06:16 PM, said:

What those other people miss out on is the opportunity to play the tank now, before the changes happen. If you have had a T-62A since, say, 2014, you've had 5+ years of play time on it that the other person doesn't.

 

Let's use a real-life, fictional analogy. Let's say you live in a country where nobody gets free healthcare at all, and you're a type 1 diabetic. You paid a one-time lump sum of $50 000 for a lifetime's supply of insulin when you were 18, and you're 60 years old now. Yesterday, your country passed a new law, saying insulin is now free for all diabetics. The other 60 year old diabetics who would have gotten this free insulin (not having to spend XP to research the 62A), are now dead. Because they didn't pay for insulin back in the day when they were 18, like you. On the other hand, this policy will help new diabetics (read, newer players) have a better life. It's a very egotistical way of looking at things.

 

Just because you "got yours" doesn't mean you have to be a gatekeeper to other people, World of Tanks has a closed economy and the real value of your tanks does not depend on scarcity. The value you assign to this "digital scarcity" of your tanks is all in your head. The Kanonenjagdpanzer 105 is rare, but that doesn't mean it's worth a lot, the tank is crap. The only way it would affect the real value of your account is if you were to sell it on the open market, which is against the ToS.

 

Bottom line is, millionaires shouldn't be crying about government handouts to those below the poverty line, because it stimulates economic activity, which ultimately fuels my DPG.

Lets take a better real life analogy then, so with your logics, everyone should receive same social benefits after retiring, doesn't matter if you have  worked for 50 years or just 1 year, you should get the same amount of benefits, stronk logics.

 



Pansenmann #9 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:52 PM

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The only question I have is - will I be able to play the jumbo pershing with stock turret and derp gun?

Homer_J #10 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:52 PM

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View PostSteVer1n0, on 23 March 2020 - 04:16 PM, said:

What those other people miss out on is the opportunity to play the tank now, before the changes happen. If you have had a T-62A since, say, 2014, you've had 5+ years of play time on it that the other person doesn't.

 

So it's fair that Steve who has had his IS-7 since 2012 can just buy a T-62A which he put no effort into getting and all I get is to keep my T-62A because hey, I had eight years playing it.

Pansenmann #11 Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:53 PM

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I just had to do this:

 

View Postgitgud_cannot, on 23 March 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

everyone should receive same social benefits

 

 



Blubba #12 Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:40 PM

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View PostSteVer1n0, on 23 March 2020 - 04:16 PM, said:

What those other people miss out on is the opportunity to play the tank now, before the changes happen. If you have had a T-62A since, say, 2014, you've had 5+ years of play time on it that the other person doesn't.

 

Let's use a real-life, fictional analogy. Let's say you live in a country where nobody gets free healthcare at all, and you're a type 1 diabetic. You paid a one-time lump sum of $50 000 for a lifetime's supply of insulin when you were 18, and you're 60 years old now. Yesterday, your country passed a new law, saying insulin is now free for all diabetics. The other 60 year old diabetics who would have gotten this free insulin (not having to spend XP to research the 62A), are now dead. Because they didn't pay for insulin back in the day when they were 18, like you. On the other hand, this policy will help new diabetics (read, newer players) have a better life. It's a very egotistical way of looking at things.

 

Just because you "got yours" doesn't mean you have to be a gatekeeper to other people, World of Tanks has a closed economy and the real value of your tanks does not depend on scarcity. The value you assign to this "digital scarcity" of your tanks is all in your head. The Kanonenjagdpanzer 105 is rare, but that doesn't mean it's worth a lot, the tank is crap. The only way it would affect the real value of your account is if you were to sell it on the open market, which is against the ToS.

 

Bottom line is, millionaires shouldn't be crying about government handouts to those below the poverty line, because it stimulates economic activity, which ultimately fuels my DPG.


The value I assign to the tanks I have researched and/or purchased is the amount of time I put into getting them. That time is now spent. It's a commodity I can't get back and certainly wasn't in my head. 

Bottom line is millionaires should be crying about handouts to those below the poverty line if the handouts equal the millionaires fortune because whilst it may stimulate some economic activity in the very short term, it bankrupts the country, devalues the currency and removes any reason for the talented/millionaires to remain.

The value of any premium tank is precisely what WG can get for it.



gunslingerXXX #13 Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:44 PM

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SteVer1n0 #14 Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:45 PM

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>Lets take a better real life analogy then, so with your logics, everyone should receive same social benefits after retiring, doesn't matter if you have  worked for 50 years or just 1 year, you should get the same amount of benefits, stronk logics.

 

Yes, guaranteed, income-tested pensions/benefits are a thing in real life, ask your parents. The requirement for some is a set amount of social contribution, and for others none at all because they are part of the universal basic benefits every citizen gets. In this case the requirement is to own a WoT account and be a potential consumer.

 

>So it's fair that Steve who has had his IS-7 since 2012 can just buy a T-62A which he put no effort into getting and all I get is to keep my T-62A because hey, I had eight years playing it.

 

Yes. If the government kidnapped your kids and ask you to pay $8m to release them immediately, but would also release them for free 8 years later if you don't pay anything, I don't think your kids would be too happy if you waited the 8 years.

 

>Bottom line is millionaires should be crying about handouts to those below the poverty line if the handouts equal the millionaires fortune because whilst it may stimulate some economic activity in the very short term, it bankrupts the country, devalues the currency and removes any reason for the talented/millionaires to remain.

 

Please do some real world economic research before you embarrass yourself online xD

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/11/28/in-sweden-billionaires-are-surprisingly-popular

https://slate.com/business/2013/11/swedens-billionaires-they-have-more-per-capita-than-the-united-states.html

 

Also if you equate a T-62A to a million dollars in real life then you have problems


Edited by SteVer1n0, 23 March 2020 - 07:28 PM.


gitgud_cannot #15 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:07 PM

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View PostSteVer1n0, on 23 March 2020 - 07:45 PM, said:

>Lets take a better real life analogy then, so with your logics, everyone should receive same social benefits after retiring, doesn't matter if you have  worked for 50 years or just 1 year, you should get the same amount of benefits, stronk logics.

 

Yes, guaranteed, income-tested pensions/benefits are a thing in real life, ask your parents. The requirement for some is a set amount of social contribution, and for others none at all because they are part of the universal basic benefits every citizen gets. In this case the requirement is to own a WoT account and be a potential consumer.

 

>So it's fair that Steve who has had his IS-7 since 2012 can just buy a T-62A which he put no effort into getting and all I get is to keep my T-62A because hey, I had eight years playing it.

 

Yes. If the government kidnapped your kids and ask you to pay $8m to release them immediately, but would also release them for free 8 years later if you don't pay anything, I don't think your kids would be too happy.

 

>Bottom line is millionaires should be crying about handouts to those below the poverty line if the handouts equal the millionaires fortune because whilst it may stimulate some economic activity in the very short term, it bankrupts the country, devalues the currency and removes any reason for the talented/millionaires to remain.

 

Please do some real world economic research before you embarrass yourself online xD

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/11/28/in-sweden-billionaires-are-surprisingly-popular

https://slate.com/business/2013/11/swedens-billionaires-they-have-more-per-capita-than-the-united-states.html

Well obviously pensions depend on the amount of taxes paid during lifetime - so you are saying that 2 people with equal amount of taxes paid per year should get the same pension, without considering the total amount of taxes paid? 

Thats simply not how things work in this world.

ATM, if WG actually make the changes as stated in their article means, that some players will essentially get a crapload of free xp, while others can suck a big d.


Edited by gitgud_cannot, 23 March 2020 - 07:09 PM.


SteVer1n0 #16 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:19 PM

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View Postgitgud_cannot, on 23 March 2020 - 07:07 PM, said:

Well obviously pensions depend on the amount of taxes paid during lifetime - so you are saying that 2 people with equal amount of taxes paid per year should get the same pension, without considering the total amount of taxes paid? 

Thats simply not how things work in this world.

ATM, if WG actually make the changes as stated in their article means, that some players will essentially get a crapload of free xp, while others can suck a big d.

Yeah but that free XP is spent specifically on the T-62A, etc., they are not handing out Chieftains, 279(e)s and 907s along with all the reward tanks to every window licker in the game. It's just that the baseline of what tanks you get with zero effort has changed.

 

And yes, that is how things work in the world: https://www.findyourpension.eu/en/pension_systems/

 

Quite a few welfare capitalist states in the world, especially in Europe, have a guaranteed, flat, tax-funded pension (62-A, etc.) which is supplemented by individual contributions (Chieftain, 277, EBR 105). The "crapload of free XP" is an illusion. It simply doesn't apply to you. Is is fair? Some might say yes, you might say no. But life isn't fair, get over it. I personally have all the tanks they will give "for free" already, but why would I care when it doesn't affect me? Oh, the government is building basic houses in a crappy area for the homeless, where is my free tiny house even if I live in a nice comfortable downtown apartment? Come on man, it's not that big of a deal and you know it.



Codename_Jelly #17 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:34 PM

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View Postgitgud_cannot, on 23 March 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

This will be quite a disappointment for a lot of players, that have researched all the upcoming collector vehicles, especially high tier ones.

One thing is that they will become available even for players that didn't grind those tech tree lines, but most importantly no xp compensation, as far as i can tell from article, fr those who have researched all of those tech tree lines, not only that - you wont even be able to play those vehicles as crew trainers, as many of us thought - you will still need a dedicated crew for every tank, imho this is just wrong, especially for players that have invested their time to grind xp for every one of those tanks - shouldn't there be at least some kind of compensation, like making those tanks as a reward vehicles(no crew retraining) for those who have them already researched?

 

After 1.9 goes live people will be able to get those vehicles without any xp spent, if article has not lost some important features in translation from Russian. I understand that this game is a property of WG, but damn, once again, some players will get stuff for free - no need to spend time/credits grinding. The rest - just suck it up i guess.

 

What is the main difference between Collectors’ Vehicles and regular researchable vehicles? Do I need to retrain crews to reassign them to Collectors' Vehicles?

The main difference is in how they are obtained—you don't need to spend XP on researching Collectors’ Vehicles. In all other game aspects (economics, retraining of crews, etc.), regular and collectible vehicles are identical.

p.s. if i made my thoughts kind of unclear - im not asking for a xp or credit compensation, but it would be reasonable to apply different rules for collector vehicles for players who already have them researched and players who doesnt have them researched. removing crew penalty for every tank that has been researched prior to update 1.9 would be the least that wg could do, otherwise i really dont see the point of this change, otherwise than making all of those vehicles unavailable for newcomers.

The new info has me massively confused and worried that by not buying and having in garage I may miss out and I do not know what to do now.  Can I save the XP on T54 for the object and still get T62A (I do have hte IS7) and risk translation **** up and lose out on the 30B and T62A?



arthurwellsley #18 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:35 PM

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Rather than getting into arguments about real world analogies, lets stick to the game. It is after all purely a game.

Clearly Wargaming (a) wish to make the acquisition of tech tree tanks easier for newer players. (b) they wish to simplify the tech trees and make them more consistent.

The downside to all this is that there is going to be moaning from the older players about either money spent on free exp or time spent grinding.

The T54 has been at different stages of the MM (when tier IX was a sweet spot) one of my favourite tanks. So I rather enjoyed my time playing towards the T62a that I own.

Similarly the AMX 30 1er prototype was a really decent tier IX when I played it to exp the AMX 30B. I never actually bought the AMX 30B ages ago because everyone said that it was relatively poor (pre-turret armour buff).

 

So although objectively Wargaming might wish to compensate me for the real money used to free exp the AMX 30 1er prototype's modules so that when I played it to get to the tier X I did not gimp myself without upgraded tracks or gun, I do not expect them to.

 

As mentioned above permitting players who have not played a large number of games in the T54 to merely purchase the T62a if they have the tier X USSR heavy tank leads me to suspect that they will be inexperienced in the appropriate game play and so those new T62a drivers will be pretty easy prey for the rest of us.

 

Veteran players already get rewards linked to their account creation date, so overall WG have tried to keep veteran players loyal.

But I do think WG should have given T62a and AMX 30B owners a fairly substantial item of compensation.

Perhaps a tank with the hull of a T62a and the turret of the AMX 30B!



kaneloon #19 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:38 PM

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But why even ask for the player to have a tiers X of the same country ?

You can already easily unlock a tiers 9 with blueprints of a country you never played.

 

And why call them "collector" tanks ?



24doom24 #20 Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:46 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 23 March 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

 

So it's fair that Steve who has had his IS-7 since 2012 can just buy a T-62A which he put no effort into getting and all I get is to keep my T-62A because hey, I had eight years playing it.

yes because you chose to spend xp on T-62A instead of the 140. 






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