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bad game design in frontline mode


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drakkanax #1 Posted 30 April 2020 - 11:21 PM

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Here are several points. Quite obvious if anyone cared to think of game design and user experience.

 

1) Spawn selection in frontline. I choose a tank, I choose a location and I'm spawned somewhere else. Just in my last game in frontline I had to drive 3 times from random spawn locations to somewhere useful for the wrong tank I wouldn't choose for the location the game selected to put me on. One of those in a heavy tank across a whole map square. This is pathetic bad design that angers players(myself included) to no end. If you're giving the user a choice, then obey the damn choice!

When I choose a specific location and click the button to spawn I expect one of two things:

- Either to be where I chose to be.

- or to be allowed other selection.

If you can't do it properly, just remove the spawn location selection for everybody. Players will be far less frustrated if their choices are not trolled by some under thought code .

 

2) Crashing game => desertion. I had a decent game.. until..  Less than 2 min to the end of the game there was power outage and I was not there at the very end. At the time of the outage I was at half the way to Major rank. I contributed significantly and we won on a defense. Imagine my surprise when I came online about 10min later that the game treated that event as desertion...

That's just bad user experience. There is no fault in my action that prevented me from being there and I'm pretty sure my team would have lost that particular game without my contribution. What happens if game crashes, which is far more common occurrence then power outages to me? Same? How is it any different from random battles?

This is only good game design if you're in the business of annoying people. I wasted my time, I lost credits and I had bad experience.

 

P.S. and the most important point is

3) There is absolutely no incentive to win in frontline.  You get nothing by making good plays and helping your side win. Quite the contrary. If that isn't bad design of a game mode I don't know what is ...

As it is now the mode is a farm fest for a bit more credits and stage rewards, which nobody with any sense plays beyond reaching stage 15.

 

 


Edited by drakkanax, 01 May 2020 - 12:39 AM.


qpranger #2 Posted 30 April 2020 - 11:47 PM

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Frontline is the best thing in World of Tanks right now.

Because Wargaming outsourced its design.



WhoCares01 #3 Posted 30 April 2020 - 11:51 PM

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Had the same experience as the OP, selected A flank for respawn, spawned in C instead, which at the time was totally overrun by the enemy, and I landed right between a Defender and an IS-3A. Followed by 4mins spectating, of course... :facepalm:

Edited by WhoCares01, 30 April 2020 - 11:51 PM.


Homer_J #4 Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:00 AM

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View Postdrakkanax, on 30 April 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

 

That's just bad user experience. There is no fault in my action that prevented me from being there

 

 

 

And how is the game supposed to tell an unintentional power outage from you pulling the plug on your router?

 

If you allow disconnects then everyone who wants to quit will just shut down their internet and nobody gets punished.  Pretty soon you find yourself playing with half a team.



Balc0ra #5 Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:05 AM

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View Postdrakkanax, on 30 April 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

When I choose a specific location and click the button to spawn I expect one of two things:

- Either to be where I chose to be.

- or to be allowed other selection.

If you can't do it properly, just remove the spawn location selection for everybody. Players will be far less frustrated if their choices are not trolled by some under thought code .

 

I can't say I've not spawned where I wanted to be so far. Most lines get locked down as the population there is past its limits. So you have to spawn somewhere else. But what you are explaining? Not so far. I mean a tiny bit away from the mark sure. But not in a major different location. Unless it's the last line. As for instance behind town near turret 3. As that point is one of few that covers a wide area, vs just one location like most spawns. But even then, you are always far away from Turret 3, and have to drive a bit regadless.

 

Then again, I've been on flank that we won in a slow tank, and the action has now moved far away. Do I waste 5 min driving over there in my TS-5? No. I press "J" and respawn somewhere else.

 

View Postdrakkanax, on 30 April 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

That's just bad user experience. There is no fault in my action that prevented me from being there and I'm pretty sure my team would have lost that particular game without my contribution. What happens if game crashes, which is far more common occurrence then power outages to me? Same? How is it any different from random battles?

This is only good game design if you're in the business of annoying people. I wasted my time, I lost credits and I had bad experience.

 

See the game can't tell if the loss of contact with you was because you did rage alt+F4 or actually had local issues like a power outage. But since people leaving with no penalty was a major issue at one point, and they can't tell the difference. It was seen as a fair compromise to give that penalty instantly. Vs letting them do it for 5-6 games with no penalty. As your issue only affects a few. 6 people on the team leaving due to no penalty affects more.


Edited by Balc0ra, 01 May 2020 - 12:09 AM.


drakkanax #6 Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:18 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 01 May 2020 - 12:00 AM, said:

 

And how is the game supposed to tell an unintentional power outage from you pulling the plug on your router?

 

If you allow disconnects then everyone who wants to quit will just shut down their internet and nobody gets punished.  Pretty soon you find yourself playing with half a team.

And how do you imagine I DESERVE a punishment? As I clearly stated I did contribute. Far more to be frank then the majority of "players" I get sorted with. So I did far more then average and you think I deserved to be punished? Have you played "random battles"? If so I expect you to justify why the policy there is wrong because it's the opposite. So which one is it?

 

Block Quote

See the game can't tell if the loss of contact with you was because you did rage alt+F4 or actually had local issues like a power outage. But since people leaving with no penalty was a major issue at one point, and they can't tell the difference. It was seen as a fair compromise to give that penalty instantly. Vs letting them do it for 5-6 games with no penalty. As your issue only affects a few. 6 people on the team leaving due to no penalty affects more.

 Same as the above. Even if it was Alt+F4, why do you imagine I deserve a punishment in the scenario above(I did contribute and got the results)? And if so explain to me please how you think the same thing in random battles must be changed, because it's the opposite there? As I stated it was at the end of a defense battle. It was 25min in when my power went down.

 

 

 


Edited by drakkanax, 01 May 2020 - 12:29 AM.


Homer_J #7 Posted 01 May 2020 - 02:35 AM

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View Postdrakkanax, on 01 May 2020 - 12:18 AM, said:

Have you played "random battles"? If so I expect you to justify why the policy there is wrong because it's the opposite.

 

 

Errmmm.....

 

...it isn't.

 

If you desert random battles you will get warned and punished.



drakkanax #8 Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:29 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 01 May 2020 - 02:35 AM, said:

 

Errmmm.....

 

...it isn't.

 

If you desert random battles you will get warned and punished.

Wrong. I've had random battles crash and the result is kept. It happens to me every few weeks .. the game is kind of buggy you know. Only if you use the return to garage button on purpose then you are considered deserting.


Edited by drakkanax, 01 May 2020 - 12:38 PM.


malowany #9 Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:36 PM

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Frontline is by far the best thing that happened to WOT in years, It checks so many boxes for me. Sure some stuff could be made better here and there but I have as much fun with it as I had with WOT back in 2012.

 

As for the no incentive to win, I actually like the way it's designed, at least I don't have to get angry now that I have a team of muppets, I do my part, try my best and have fun, roflstomps don't bother me that much in this mode.

 

And when teams are equally matched then the back and forth is very exciting.



drakkanax #10 Posted 01 May 2020 - 01:44 PM

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View Postmalowany, on 01 May 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

Frontline is by far the best thing that happened to WOT in years, It checks so many boxes for me. Sure some stuff could be made better here and there but I have as much fun with it as I had with WOT back in 2012.

 

As for the no incentive to win, I actually like the way it's designed, at least I don't have to get angry now that I have a team of muppets, I do my part, try my best and have fun, roflstomps don't bother me that much in this mode.

 

And when teams are equally matched then the back and forth is very exciting.

I am not arguing for or against frontline. This is not some school popularity contest. I obviously think it has potential. That's why I'm discussing it...unlike other "modes" nobody bothers with. I'm talking of actual issues that can be fixed so it would be BETTER. If WG cares of their product they need to address such issues. 1) and 3) in my list are kind of major.

 

P.S. On the other hand issue 1) has been present in WoWP for years and they haven't bothered fixing it, despite numerous calls from players.. so there is little hope.

 



drakkanax #11 Posted 01 May 2020 - 10:20 PM

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It seems popular youtubers aren't the only ones that think frontline is not worth playing after you get the rewards. You can even argue that one is motivated to reach general rank every time so they'd have to play less of it...


Edited by drakkanax, 01 May 2020 - 10:21 PM.


Robbie_T #12 Posted 02 May 2020 - 04:01 AM

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View Postdrakkanax, on 30 April 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

Here are several points. Quite obvious if anyone cared to think of game design and user experience.

 

1) Spawn selection in frontline. I choose a tank, I choose a location and I'm spawned somewhere else. Just in my last game in frontline I had to drive 3 times from random spawn locations to somewhere useful for the wrong tank I wouldn't choose for the location the game selected to put me on. One of those in a heavy tank across a whole map square. This is pathetic bad design that angers players(myself included) to no end. If you're giving the user a choice, then obey the damn choice!

When I choose a specific location and click the button to spawn I expect one of two things:

- Either to be where I chose to be.

- or to be allowed other selection.

If you can't do it properly, just remove the spawn location selection for everybody. Players will be far less frustrated if their choices are not trolled by some under thought code .

 

2) Crashing game => desertion. I had a decent game.. until..  Less than 2 min to the end of the game there was power outage and I was not there at the very end. At the time of the outage I was at half the way to Major rank. I contributed significantly and we won on a defense. Imagine my surprise when I came online about 10min later that the game treated that event as desertion...

That's just bad user experience. There is no fault in my action that prevented me from being there and I'm pretty sure my team would have lost that particular game without my contribution. What happens if game crashes, which is far more common occurrence then power outages to me? Same? How is it any different from random battles?

This is only good game design if you're in the business of annoying people. I wasted my time, I lost credits and I had bad experience.

 

P.S. and the most important point is

3) There is absolutely no incentive to win in frontline.  You get nothing by making good plays and helping your side win. Quite the contrary. If that isn't bad design of a game mode I don't know what is ...

As it is now the mode is a farm fest for a bit more credits and stage rewards, which nobody with any sense plays beyond reaching stage 15.

 

 

1) Spawn selection in frontline. I choose a tank, I choose a location and I'm spawned somewhere else. Just in my last game in frontline I had to drive 3 times from random spawn locations to somewhere useful for the wrong tank I wouldn't choose for the location the game selected to put me on.

 

-I know whats happening to slow of a PC  or connection(how i know i play on a crappy laptop now (pc broke last month new one is getting build)

and this FL i had it several times becuase my laptop is too slow.

but next FL  my new i7 9700k  and rtx 2080 will make it work again just like on my old pc insta spawn than it happends maybe 1 in a 100 times.

 

2) Crashing game => desertion. I had a decent game.. until..  Less than 2 min to the end of the game there was power outage and I was not there at the very end. At the time of the outage I was at half the way to Major rank. I contributed significantly and we won on a defense. Imagine my surprise when I came online about 10min later that the game treated that event as desertion...

yess that sucks ......had 1 time general rank and my brother tripped over the wire  disconnecting.....slapped the crapout of him....

or now on my crappy laptop i am not feeling convident either (although not happend)

 

3) There is absolutely no incentive to win in frontline.  You get nothing by making good plays and helping your side win. Quite the contrary. If that isn't bad design of a game mode I don't know what is ...

As it is now the mode is a farm fest for a bit more credits and stage rewards, which nobody with any sense plays beyond reaching stage 15.

 

Uhm making good plays liek cap decap or stand on  the cap gives me a lot of rank so i have to play less games.

but its 20 % doing something in FL the rest thinks its a redline camping sniper game....

(funny how sometimes one tank can hold of 13 enemys becuase they all scared to take a shot and rush him (like they have 1 tier 8 tank)

But the First FL was the best...that was fun those 2 weeks (no ebrs yet) 

 


Edited by Robbie_T, 02 May 2020 - 04:03 AM.





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