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Possible Manticore buff?

British lights Manticore buff

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Poll: Buff Manticore? (26 members have cast votes)

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Would you like to see these changes to the Manticore?

  1. Yes (21 votes [80.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.77%

  2. Maybe (3 votes [11.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

  3. No (2 votes [7.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

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Pewpewpew77 #1 Posted 01 May 2020 - 08:08 AM

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I might do this about the other british light tanks but my main problem is that the Manticore underperforms every other light tank. It's supposed to have high alpha damage and concealment but it is still rather lacking in those parameters. The possible buffs to the Manticore could be concealment, alpha damage, damage per minute and ammunition capacity.

 

Ammunition capacity

Though Wargaming has said that they will buff the Manticore's ammunition to I think around 20, it is still rather lacking. I think it would be much better if the vehicle could carry around 25 to 35 rounds. If Wargaming wants to add the extra ammo and make it realistic they could model an ammo rack on the back of the turret or the rear like on the german modified KV-2

As seen here.

 

Concealment

Though the Manticore is rather tiny yet it's concealment value isn't much better than other lights of the same tier. I suggest the concealment be buffed to around 25% when stationary.

 

Alpha damage

The current alpha damage of the Manticore is not really special. The 390 is also on many other same tier light tanks. Such as the AMX 13 105, EBR 105 and Sheridan (With the 105mm). I think the Manticore would be truly unique with an extra high alpha damage. I think 450 alpha damage would make players truly fear the Manticore and make it more of an opponent. This will also help with it's tragic dpm and low ammo capacity. The HE rounds could also be buffed to either HESH shells or just high-pen HE shells. Anyways these shells could have around 510 alpha and 85 to 90 pen. This would make it a counter to wheeled vehicles which are currently better than most other lights in game.

 

Reload

The reload of the tank is currently 13,4 seconds. Which gives it the worse dpm of tier 10. If the alpha damage were to stay the same I think a reload of 10.5 seconds would be more fitting. Though if it were to have 450 alpha damage a reload of 15 seconds would work better.

 

Current Dpm - 1743

Dpm with 450 alpha and 14 sec reload - 1800

Dpm with improved reload - 2228

Dpm with the 13.4 sec reload and high alpha damage - 2014
 

That's all I could think of to make the Manticore a more meta tank.

Please tell me you ideas and suggestions in the comments.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Pewpewpew77, 01 May 2020 - 08:11 AM.


fwhaatpiraat #2 Posted 01 May 2020 - 08:20 AM

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Nice ideas but WG is still gathering data for the Rhm Pzw.

DaniulSims #3 Posted 01 May 2020 - 08:25 AM

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A very slight buff in camo (maybe 2 to 4%) and the Alpha buff would be all that it needs - with an alpha buff two of it's main weaknesses, the low potential damage due to low ammo count and bad DPM, would be greatly alleviated.

 

The camo buff is just common sense.



Long_Range_Sniper #4 Posted 01 May 2020 - 08:31 AM

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I would love to see the Manticore buffed but I can't see it happening as perversely it's the second best performing tier X light tank and performs quite close to the EBR 105. Could be a case of lies, damn lies, and statistics, but the stats are there.

DaniulSims #5 Posted 01 May 2020 - 08:34 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 01 May 2020 - 09:31 AM, said:

I would love to see the Manticore buffed but I can't see it happening as perversely it's the second best performing tier X light tank and performs quite close to the EBR 105. Could be a case of lies, damn lies, and statistics, but the stats are there.

It's an interesting thing.

 

It happens the same with the ELC EVEN 90: both are tanks that at face value are bad (bad guns, meh overall mobility, only camo really going on for them).

 

 

What I think it boils down to is A) people being really cautious while playing them and hence kinda "tryharding" and doing their best or B) camo being that relevant.



Long_Range_Sniper #6 Posted 01 May 2020 - 08:37 AM

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View PostDaniulSims, on 01 May 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

It's an interesting thing.

 

It happens the same with the ELC EVEN 90: both are tanks that at face value are bad (bad guns, meh overall mobility, only camo really going on for them).

 

 

What I think it boils down to is A) people being really cautious while playing them and hence kinda "tryharding" and doing their best or B) camo being that relevant.

 

The camo point is interesting. Put good camo on a tank and no matter who's playing it, there's a net boost in the system. The wincurves for the EBR 105 and the Manticore are strikingly similar though, and there's got to be a reason for that.



Cobra6 #7 Posted 01 May 2020 - 09:10 AM

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Maticore just needs competitive DPM for a T10 light tank, it has something like 1700DPM base while 2200+ is rather standard for T10 light tanks.

It's idiotic and simply bad balancing. That or some intern typed in the excel spreadsheet numbers wrong.

 

Cobra 6



DangerMouse #8 Posted 01 May 2020 - 03:24 PM

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I would give it 490 damage and 10 more shells, job done.

Pathethicc_Noob #9 Posted 01 May 2020 - 05:28 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 01 May 2020 - 07:20 AM, said:

Nice ideas but WG is still gathering data for the Rhm Pzw.

 

They have to collect data at least for one more year about how many times it will flip itself in battles.

16:35 Added after 6 minute

Both the Manticore and Flipoverwagen are just pathethic excuse of a tier X light tank. Manticore definitely needs more ammo capacity, perhaps bigger alpha, and flipwagen could use better camo and say 360 alpha like it had before the nerf. Or I think it had 360. Also I would buff HP of tier X LTs in general by lets say 200. I dont know why couldnt they have more HP given how easy targets they can sometimes be. Not saying I am best LT player, but you make one mistake, or get rushed and spotted by EBR.. and because your entire tank is paper, you can get massive punishment. While you could also use some bush, peak to spot or something, with russian medium, and bounce incoming shots. 

 



pihip #10 Posted 01 May 2020 - 05:41 PM

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Manticore fits the niche of a hard hitting slow firing light tank, IMHO a buff to alpha and ammo capacity is a more sensible approach.


Also, I'd drop APCR and standard HE for HESH, like Charioteer and the Centurion 7/1 (gold HESH having 205/210 pen, and standard HESH with 105/120 pen).



Pathethicc_Noob #11 Posted 01 May 2020 - 05:43 PM

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High pene HESH could work as is still decently small tank, for some ambushes of lighty armored vehicles.

Spurtung #12 Posted 01 May 2020 - 06:32 PM

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No mention of gun elevation, which is really one of the most annoying 'features' of this thing, making it awkward to use sometimes, on top of all its other excellent characteristics.

PenHard #13 Posted 01 May 2020 - 07:09 PM

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I'm having a lot of trouble fighting them in my EBR.I'd rather not have them being buffed.

Pewpewpew77 #14 Posted 15 May 2020 - 03:53 PM

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View PostDangerMouse, on 01 May 2020 - 03:24 PM, said:

I would give it 490 damage and 10 more shells, job done.

That would be nice but it could kinda go against the historical accuracy, thus the Manticore would have had 20 shells. The rear ammo rack thingy could work but idk of Wargaming wants to do that. But a alpha buff would certainly be nice.



saxsan4 #15 Posted 15 May 2020 - 03:55 PM

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Its fine as it is, I love mine
14:56 Added after 0 minute

View PostDangerMouse, on 01 May 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

I would give it 490 damage and 10 more shells, job done.


So it will have more dmg than the Badger and S cons yet has small caliber gun??

 

if they want to buff dmg but it 395 but thats it


Edited by saxsan4, 15 May 2020 - 03:56 PM.


demon_tank #16 Posted 15 May 2020 - 08:07 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 01 May 2020 - 07:20 AM, said:

Nice ideas but WG is still gathering data for the Rhm Pzw.

Give them a break. Gathering data is much harder that it sounds.

The code for Rhm Flipwagen is written in German and WG have Russian programmers.



Fediuld #17 Posted 17 May 2020 - 08:46 AM

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Manticore needs gun elevation and accuracy. Can deal with the rest, however is less accurate than Panzerwagen let alone EBR even stationary. On the move is each pick even for meds as it cannot reliably fight back. 

If played as TD works fine, but has no other attributes. Even WZ132-1 is better light tank even if it is sluggish beast, has more turret armour and gun that some Tier 10 meds could be jelous for. 

 

Also Panzerwagen > Manticore by miles. 

 

 

 

 

 



baratoz1701 #18 Posted 17 May 2020 - 08:56 AM

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Manticore is more likely to be nerfed than buff. 

 

  • Manticore has the highest avg. dmg of all tier 10 LTs
  • Manticore will not be buffed as statistically it is overperforming and Andrey even admits it is because only good players play it. Makes sense to WG apparently

that's from Circon dev chat



hjorte #19 Posted 17 May 2020 - 10:01 AM

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View Postbaratoz1701, on 17 May 2020 - 08:56 AM, said:

Manticore is more likely to be nerfed than buff. 

 

  • Manticore has the highest avg. dmg of all tier 10 LTs

 

And Manticore has the lowest Avg. armour-use effiency of all tier 10 LTs.

 

Message to Andrey, you can't just pick one stat to make a point.

 



baratoz1701 #20 Posted 17 May 2020 - 10:06 AM

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According to wot-life its 3rd on ru and eu for damage, but that might just mean they dont have all the stats that the devs do. Still a big jump tho




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