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Questions for stats geeks (WTR, MoE). I'm baffled...

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psychobear #1 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:25 PM

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1. I just can't grasp the WTR rating, guys, so please help me on this one.

Today i have played 2 battles in my Hellcat, and the WTR rating shows like this:

So, 9767 WTR, which i have no idea what it means, and it doesn't matter.

Thing is, when we go to the "By vehicles" tab, it shows a completely different WTR for the same session:

 

Right, 6029 WTR. 

OK.

But... how come? By vehicle, it's 6029, and by session it's 9767, when there were no battles fought in other vehicles. It just shows two completely different values for the same two battles. 

Just... HOW?!!! :amazed:

 

 

2. Lately, i was contemplating the idea of three-marking the Hellcat. I know i'm not good enough a player, but it's worth a try, so i thought why not.

But... first battle today goes like this:

So 2899 combined damage, which is almost double than the requirement for 95%, yet, instead of rising a bit, i drop almost a whole point (0.87%) in MoE, just as you can see in the screenshot. Just... WTF?!!! :amazed:

 



fwhaatpiraat #2 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:29 PM

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No clue about the WTR-related question. But regarding the MoE on Hellcat; apparently the values for the third mark went up since you played it the last time.

xx984 #3 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:29 PM

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I have no idea about WTR.

 

As for the MoE, If you haven't played a tank in a little while (could even be a few days sometimes) as the requirements change, you can either have a drop down, or a spike up, can be large or small drops/spikes (As an example, my 121B after they put it in bond shop went from 80% to 88% for a mediocre game, and my tier 10 chieftain dropped like 10% for a very good game a little while ago as i haven't played it in months) Its annoying and WG don't really explain how the MoE Stuff works very well at all. 

 

The changes in MoE Can be used to your advantage though. With my M60 I Waited to play it after it went in bond shop, And ended up going from like 82% to 90% to help with my 3 Mark grind


Edited by xx984, 03 May 2020 - 06:31 PM.


TungstenHitman #4 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:38 PM

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Buffed HP pools on tanks around those tiers is the reason your gun marks dropped on the back of a 1st class result. Same thing happened me with a tier6 tank I hadn't played in ages. It was sitting on 89%, I played one battle, an Ace tank with massive damage and assistance damage combo, thought, nice, that should be 91% or something but instead it was 86.3% lol! It will take many battles to wash away that old meta average damage where there was less HP pools to farm. It's not just that extra raw damage that will kick your old meta MoE in the balls but the assistance too. To all accumulates into difference that will drop gun marks on ignored tanks.

 

The opposite happens after a tank gets nerfed. If you happened to be on 92% with that tank before it was nerfed, then ignore it for about two weeks and then play it again, even a zero damage battle will translate into 97% MoE lol and the difference there is that your old non-nerfed stats on that tank are averaging higher damage than the current playerbase has managed in the last two weeks with the nerfed version so the marks will jump no matter what you do in that one battle and its a free 3 mark. With buffed hp pools, the opposite now happens. Instead of players averaging lets say 1500 dmg and 500 assist they will average 1800dmg and 800 assist. So do the math and your % will drop by about THAT much. 



Sylvansight #5 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:49 PM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

1. I just can't grasp the WTR rating, guys, so please help me on this one.

Today i have played 2 battles in my Hellcat, and the WTR rating shows like this:

So, 9767 WTR, which i have no idea what it means, and it doesn't matter.

Thing is, when we go to the "By vehicles" tab, it shows a completely different WTR for the same session:

 

Right, 6029 WTR. 

OK.

But... how come? By vehicle, it's 6029, and by session it's 9767, when there were no battles fought in other vehicles. It just shows two completely different values for the same two battles. 

Just... HOW?!!! :amazed:

 

 

2. Lately, i was contemplating the idea of three-marking the Hellcat. I know i'm not good enough a player, but it's worth a try, so i thought why not.

But... first battle today goes like this:

So 2899 combined damage, which is almost double than the requirement for 95%, yet, instead of rising a bit, i drop almost a whole point (0.87%) in MoE, just as you can see in the screenshot. Just... WTF?!!! :amazed:

 

 

9767 = your account rating ?
6029 = your hellcat rating?


check hall of fame and see what it gives you for account score (maybe it's a rating for April, but should be a number like that somewhere to do some deduction) 



psychobear #6 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:49 PM

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Thanks for the answers guys, i think that explains the MoE drop, especially since the second game made it go slightly up, with only about 1500 combined. 

I guess i'll just keep trying, and if it comes it comes, if not... oh well.

 

Still, the WTR thing gets on my toes, since i can't figure it out.

17:51 Added after 1 minute

View PostSylvansight, on 03 May 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

 

9767 = your account rating ?
6029 = your hellcat rating?


check hall of fame and see what it gives you for account score (maybe it's a rating for April, but should be a number like that somewhere to do some deduction) 

 

Errm... nope, my account rating PR is about 6400... but then again, PR is the same as WTR, or isn't it... i guess WG managed to make a complete mess about their own rating.



Sylvansight #7 Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:52 PM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thanks for the answers guys, i think that explains the MoE drop, especially since the second game made it go slightly up, with only about 1500 combined. 

I guess i'll just keep trying, and if it comes it comes, if not... oh well.

 

Still, the WTR thing gets on my toes, since i can't figure it out.

17:51 Added after 1 minute

 

Errm... nope, my account rating PR is about 6400... but then again, PR is the same as WTR, or isn't it... i guess WG managed to make a complete mess about their own rating.



WTR is the new score, it's replacing PR as the default wg-stat soon (ish).  

17:59 Added after 7 minute

my WTR for April: 9849

my WTR for all time:  8066

so I'm going to call your higher number as your April WTR.  




 


Edited by Sylvansight, 03 May 2020 - 06:52 PM.


TungstenHitman #8 Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:00 PM

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...to give you a more clear understanding of what I mean about old hp meta screwing a tanks gun marks that were achieved during the old meta with lessor hp pool, maybe these screenshots will help.

 

The last tank I 3 marked lately was that free tank reward tier6 premium Swedish medium tank Strv something something.

 

Now, when I 3 marked it last month with lessor hp pools, I was top 3 player on the server.

 

 

 

I haven't played it since then but suddenly with the new bigger hp pools you can see that same dmg and assist wouldn't even make the top 20.

 

 

 

Now, I didn't play any worse than those guys to average less damage and they didn't play any better to average more, it's purely because of the hp pools.

 

Like I said I stopped playing after I marked the tank and it's marks % currently looks like this.

 

 

But like I said, if I were to play this tank today, that would drop from 95+% MoE to maybe 89% even if I drop in an Ace. The one battle really won't make any difference it's based on last 100 battles and in the last 100 battles, I averaged less damage an assistance than the current players have achieved in the last two weeks with more HP to farm. Sadly, this is going to screw a lot of players that were close to 3 marking these mid-tier tanks that happened to not play them for a while.

 

Equally, when the HP pools were buffed, if a player started to mark one of these mid-tiers with a fresh tank they never played before, then for the first two weeks they will get 3 marks easily because it will be based against the old HP pool meta and obviously they are going to average more than they would have, assuming they're not useless and have always had some ability to 3 mark a tank or almost. 



psychobear #9 Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:07 PM

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So... best thing would be to wait a little, then? Just lay off the kitty for 2-3 weeks until the requirements settle and then take it from there?

TungstenHitman #10 Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:14 PM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

So... best thing would be to wait a little, then? Just lay off the kitty for 2-3 weeks until the requirements settle and then take it from there?

 

Sadly because you already have over 100 battles with it and marks are based on your most recent 100 battles, no, not playing it for a few weeks won't undo your last 100 battles average formed during a lessor HP meta. Sorry bro, you gotta just take the % hit and then drag yourself back up from wherever it drops to and because it's based on your last 100 battles it might drop even more until that newly established bar is set.

 

As it stands, the Hellcats(or any other tank of those tiers) marks requirements is probably still slightly diluted by old meta hp pools. Has it been two weeks since that hp buff was added? If so, then the requirements are pretty much established but if there's some time left, then the bar might even be raised even a little bit higher by the time that two weeks has passed. 

 

Ya it's total bs and a hatchet job to everyone that established their marks % during the old meta if they have 100 battles with that tank or any sizable battle count. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 03 May 2020 - 07:19 PM.


psychobear #11 Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:27 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 03 May 2020 - 08:14 PM, said:

 

Sadly because you already have over 100 battles with it and marks are based on your most recent 100 battles, no, not playing it for a few weeks won't undo your last 100 battles average formed during a lessor HP meta. Sorry bro, you gotta just take the % hit and then drag yourself back up from wherever it drops to and because it's based on your last 100 battles it might drop even more until that newly established bar is set.

 

As it stands, the Hellcats(or any other tank of those tiers) marks requirements is probably still slightly diluted by old meta hp pools. Has it been two weeks since that hp buff was added? If so, then the requirements are pretty much established but if there's some time left, then the bar might even be raised even a little bit higher by the time that two weeks has passed. 

 

Ya it's total bs and a hatchet job to everyone that established their marks % during the old meta if they have 100 battles with that tank or any sizable battle count. 

 

No problem, i'll just go with the wave and if everyone's average damage increased with it since the hp buff, mine will too, so if i deserve to get that three mark i'll eventually get it and if not, well tough luck :)

I love playing that tank, even after WG unnecessarily overnerfed the crap out of it, and in the end that's the only thing that matters, me thinks.



Ragoutrabbit #12 Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:37 PM

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9000 one is rating for current session 6000 is the cumulative value of your all time performance in that tank.

psychobear #13 Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:23 PM

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View PostRagoutrabbit, on 03 May 2020 - 08:37 PM, said:

9000 one is rating for current session 6000 is the cumulative value of your all time performance in that tank.

 

Ah, ok, that kinda makes sense, although if the stats are shown by session, they should've shown the session stats in the vehicle tab also. 

 

Anyway, it seems the MoE got back on track

 

So... can you guys provide any tips for marking this beautiful piece of kit? As in recommended equipment, crew skills and so on?

Currently i run it with rammer, camo net and binos, plus standard consumables (i see no need for large ones, but i may be wrong).

It's got an all kitty crew

They love their Cola.

 

I try to play it like a mix of scout/support TD, which doesn't always work - that being rather a PBKAC issue.

 

Any recommendations? I'd really love to get the 3rd star on this thing's barrel :)



TungstenHitman #14 Posted 03 May 2020 - 09:42 PM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

 

No problem, i'll just go with the wave and if everyone's average damage increased with it since the hp buff, mine will too, so if i deserve to get that three mark i'll eventually get it and if not, well tough luck :)

I love playing that tank, even after WG unnecessarily overnerfed the crap out of it, and in the end that's the only thing that matters, me thinks.

 

I've only ever known the nerfed version of the HC and it's my most played tank of all time, with the T49 derp closing in fast. For a long time it was just the perfect balance for me and my old potato pc and unreliable connection combo since as a TD and playing deep it was a more forgiving tank than some close quarters tank where any little freeze or connection issue would be certain death. Lots of good memories with the HC, he bagged my first ever Kolobanovs medal, I can still recall how I nearly had a heart attack with adrenaline for those final 3 tanks. It's a lovely combination of everything I would look for in a tank, mobile for relocating and fully exploiting a big map, lots of camo and lots of view range which works really well with good mobility very much light tankish attributes and of course, a really bad soft stats but also really good punchy gun for tier6 with penetration options that have no problem to deal with being bottom tier against some of the biggest armor ratings tier8 can throw at it. Fast aim time, a turret.... what else does a player need? armor? nah... armor is for noobs that plan on taking shots. Sure, I can get demolished in one shot by a big gun but my mindset was not to get shot in the first place lol whereas if you play a tank with big armor, it's almost an acceptance that you are going to play in such a way you are going to get shot.

 

Sadly I have not played the HC in a year or more, it's crew sent elsewhere and she enjoys her retirement having being one of the greatest workhorses and fun I could have hoped for. Can't imagine the pre-nerfed version, I suppose it must have been the same as the Super-HC only at tier6 and with tier6 hp and ammo capacity. It's fine as it is now though, more than capable in the right hands. Good luck with your 3 mark, you will get it I have no doubt. :)



ZlatanArKung #15 Posted 03 May 2020 - 10:46 PM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 06:49 PM, said:

Thanks for the answers guys, i think that explains the MoE drop, especially since the second game made it go slightly up, with only about 1500 combined. 

I guess i'll just keep trying, and if it comes it comes, if not... oh well.

 

Still, the WTR thing gets on my toes, since i can't figure it out.

17:51 Added after 1 minute

 

Errm... nope, my account rating PR is about 6400... but then again, PR is the same as WTR, or isn't it... i guess WG managed to make a complete mess about their own rating.

The session WTR is pretty much the PR-rating you had in that session.

 

If you hover your mouse over it, you can see if your PR have went up or down in that session.



JocMeister #16 Posted 04 May 2020 - 05:21 AM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:

 

Ah, ok, that kinda makes sense, although if the stats are shown by session, they should've shown the session stats in the vehicle tab also. 

 

Anyway, it seems the MoE got back on track

 

So... can you guys provide any tips for marking this beautiful piece of kit? As in recommended equipment, crew skills and so on?

Currently i run it with rammer, camo net and binos, plus standard consumables (i see no need for large ones, but i may be wrong).

It's got an all kitty crew

They love their Cola.

 

I try to play it like a mix of scout/support TD, which doesn't always work - that being rather a PBKAC issue.

 

Any recommendations? I'd really love to get the 3rd star on this thing's barrel :)

 

Its a long time since I played and I can´t really remember my setup. But I would either switch out binos for optics or run with both. Viewrange is your best friend and you want that constant VR boost from optics while binos makes you static and have little use on most maps. 

 



_Signal_ #17 Posted 04 May 2020 - 07:20 AM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 May 2020 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thanks for the answers guys, i think that explains the MoE drop, especially since the second game made it go slightly up, with only about 1500 combined. 

I guess i'll just keep trying, and if it comes it comes, if not... oh well.

 

Still, the WTR thing gets on my toes, since i can't figure it out.

17:51 Added after 1 minute

 

Errm... nope, my account rating PR is about 6400... but then again, PR is the same as WTR, or isn't it... i guess WG managed to make a complete mess about their own rating.

Just to agree and counter point, I have played tanks I haven't played for ages and my MOE has shot up 10-15% just on one average game,. obviously the numbers had gone down during the 12 months I haven't played.it.







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