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Light tank need reforms


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Poll: Light tanks need to be reformed. (29 members have cast votes)

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Lights tanks need to be reformed

  1. No its fine now (6 votes [20.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  2. Absolutely yes! (20 votes [68.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 68.97%

  3. Tracked Lights are ok, Wheelies need to be nerfed (3 votes [10.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.34%

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naxela #1 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:03 PM

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Hi fellow tankers,

 

My opinion is that the Non-wheeled light tanks need reforms, nobody plays them anymore, and why should you? They're absolutely sh*t against the wheeled tanks. A whole vehicle class isn't played now. Wargaming need to do something about that.

Light tanks have poor dpm and poor armor, after the massive changes made to light tanks they're useless, the gun is too bad to snipe properly and most mediums have maxium viewrange. And when you're in higher tiers there is always an EBR...

Please share the poll :)


Edited by naxela, 08 May 2020 - 11:04 AM.


boboiscool #2 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:05 PM

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I prefer a proper light tank over a WV any day of the week. You just have to adjust your playstyle a bit.

naxela #3 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:06 PM

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View Postboboiscool, on 07 May 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

I prefer a proper light tank over a WV any day of the week. You just have to adjust your playstyle a bit.

Yes me too, but they're bad and are no match for the opponents.



gunslingerXXX #4 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:07 PM

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They are not too bad I would say. EBR 75 and 105 are too strong at the moment, others are fine. Another issue is that at tier 8+ the viewrange of all tanks becomes too high for effective scouting. 

 



naxela #5 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:08 PM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 07 May 2020 - 02:07 PM, said:

They are not too bad I would say. EBR 75 and 105 are too strong at the moment, others are fine. Another issue is that at tier 8+ the viewrange of all tanks becomes too high for effective scouting. 

 

Yes exactly so you must agree that at higher tiers light tanks are kinda useless, they don't have the dpm and armor of a medium. Speed and on the move camouflage doesn't bring you good battle results.



Galan7891 #6 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:12 PM

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View Postnaxela, on 07 May 2020 - 03:03 PM, said:

Hi fellow tankers,

 

My opinion is that the Non-wheeled light tanks need reforms, nobody plays them anymore, and why should you? They're absolutely sh*t against the wheeled tanks. A whole vehicle class isn't played now. Wargaming need to do something about that.

 

Please share the poll :)

Yes ,yes that AMD is clearly broken when compared to something like MT25.../S



gunslingerXXX #7 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:13 PM

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View Postnaxela, on 07 May 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

Yes exactly so you must agree that at higher tiers light tanks are kinda useless, they don't have the dpm and armor of a medium. Speed and on the move camouflage doesn't bring you good battle results.

Agree



WindSplitter1 #8 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:26 PM

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View Postboboiscool, on 07 May 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

I prefer a proper light tank over a WV any day of the week. You just have to adjust your playstyle a bit.

 

The thing is, we don't have one.

 

I think people are looking at Light Tanks the other way around... It's not that Wheelers are too good (or just that, anyway), it's that Tracked Lights are not as good.

 

Back when we had Scout MM, an LT could (and usually would) punish bad/distracted players with their superior rate of fire and speed. They had pretty low pen with anemic guns but the combination of high speed, solid armament choice and appropriate reloading speed for their caliber, allowed them to be a respectable foe.

 

Now, WG decided to reduce their top speed while giving them more engine power which is more agility and acceleration at lower speeds = easier to hit*, while at the same time removing guns that made them unique and the necessary reloading speed to cope with their poor pen and rightfully take advantage of bad play.

 

 

 


*Now that I write about it, it makes sense that people are complaining about WVs

You just cannot make a class that's all about speed and RoF, nerf it and allowing people to get use to LTs being just slow ducks on a row, only to add another vehicle subtype that is exactly what it used to be first but even faster (without the RoF).

 

 



arthurwellsley #9 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:30 PM

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I and many other players said that when the tier X light tanks were bought into the game the nerfs to the lower tier lights were too harsh. I said it then and I still believe it.

The wheeled vehicles that arrived at tiers VI, VII and VIII are not particularly strong either, only the tier X stands out as too strong.

 

USSR

tier VI - MT25 poor

tier VII - LTG awkward

tier VIII - LTTB good but too tall

tier IX - T54 ltwt (used to be one of my favourites at tier VIII now not as good as the LT-432 which yes I know is a tier VIII premium)

tier X - T-100 best tier X scout, but really not as useful as Object 140 or Object 907

 

France

tier V - AMX ELC bis - nerfed to oblivion. RIP everyone who owned it sold it.

tier VI - AMX 12t  - poor

tier VII - AMX 13 75 why play this when the AMX 13 57 exists?

tier VIII - Bat Chatillion 12t - average to all right.

tier IX - AMX 13 90 - not as good as it used to be at tier VIII but it is an auto loader. So still can be fun.

tier X - second best tier X to the T-100 and less good than a USSR medium.

 

Germany

tier VI - VK28.01 - nerfed without the derp gun, sold it, so disappointing now. Needs a buff and the 105mm gun back.

tier VII - Spahpanzer SPIC - nerfed to hell

tier VIII - HWK 12 rubbish. Premium HWK 30 is better

tier IX - Spahpanzer RU 251 was decent at tier VIII but the leKpz M41 90 Blackdog is a better tier IX (yes I know it's a tier VIII premium)

tier X - Rheinmettal Panzerwagon - deeply below average.

 

UK

tier VII - GSR 3301 Setter - rubbish

tier VIII - LHMTV - garbage

tier IX - GSOR 3301 AVR FS - trash

tier X - Manticore - appalling, so far away from what it should have been.

The UK light tanks are on the whole the ones in most need of serious buffs not the least on their shell capacity let alone all their other characteristics. The really disappointing thing about them is that they are all blueprints and projects and the Scorpion FV101 and Scimitar of which hundreds were built did not even get into the tech tree. Deadly poor implementation by War Gaming.

 

CN

tier VI - 59-16 destroyed by removal of the autoloader

tier VII - WZ 131 - poor

tier VIII - WZ 132 - a shadow of it's former self

tier IX - WZ 132A - poor

tier X - WZ 132-1 - useless

 

USA

tier VI - T37 nerfed to hell

tier VII - T71 nerfed hard

tier VIII M41 Walker Bulldog - so good prior to the nerf, badly needs a buff

tier IX - T49 used to be amusing, how just sad.

tier X - XM551 Sherdian - poor

 

Comparison tables of tier X mediums ability to get to a bush undetected and then scout, with tier X light tanks in two graphs below.

Mediums

Lights

Pretty much tells you why tracked light tanks need to be buffed.

Graphs courtesy of Ham_ who created them.

Either the lights need more camo and view range, or the mediums need a nerf.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 07 May 2020 - 03:43 PM.


naxela #10 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:30 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 07 May 2020 - 02:26 PM, said:

 

The thing is, we don't have one.

 

I think people are looking at Light Tanks the other way around... It's not that Wheelers are too good (or just that, anyway), it's that Tracked Lights are not as good.

 

Back when we had Scout MM, an LT could (and usually would) punish bad/distracted players with their superior rate of fire and speed. They had pretty low pen with anemic guns but the combination of high speed, solid armament choice and appropriate reloading speed for their caliber, allowed them to be a respectable foe.

 

Now, WG decided to reduce their top speed while giving them more engine power which is more agility and acceleration at lower speeds = easier to hit*, while at the same time removing guns that made them unique and the necessary reloading speed to cope with their poor pen and rightfully take advantage of bad play.

 

 

 


*Now that I write about it, it makes sense that people are complaining about WVs

You just cannot make a class that's all about speed and RoF, nerf it and allowing people to get use to LTs being just slow ducks on a row, only to add another vehicle subtype that is exactly what it used to be first but even faster (without the RoF).

 

 

I totally agree, and i think it's not just our opinion, because the lack of M41 walker bulldogs, T71, HWK 12, LTTB etc. (I can keep going naming light tanks) is alarming.



24doom24 #11 Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:56 PM

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High tier matchmaking is also overly saturated with high view range. Every tank except for arty can easily reach 400-500m view range at tier 8-10 which effectively renders tracked lights useless since every tank can spot for themselves. Throw in maps like ensk and mines that negate camo and you wonder what the point of light tanks are. 

 

EBRs offer so much that other lights don't which is why they are the exception. EBRs killed passive spotting to a degree. It just takes one to yolo down into your base at 95km/h while flinging HE and absorbing shots into the wheels without even flinching to spot everyone. 

 

Also RIP ELC AMX, it just stops when I drive onto a puddle lmao. :teethhappy:



WindSplitter1 #12 Posted 07 May 2020 - 08:27 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 07 May 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

I and many other players said that when the tier X light tanks were bought into the game the nerfs to the lower tier lights were too harsh. I said it then and I still believe it.

The wheeled vehicles that arrived at tiers VI, VII and VIII are not particularly strong either, only the tier X stands out as too strong.

 

USSR

tier VI - MT25 poor

tier VII - LTG awkward

tier VIII - LTTB good but too tall

tier IX - T54 ltwt (used to be one of my favourites at tier VIII now not as good as the LT-432 which yes I know is a tier VIII premium)

tier X - T-100 best tier X scout, but really not as useful as Object 140 or Object 907

 

France

tier V - AMX ELC bis - nerfed to oblivion. RIP everyone who owned it sold it.

tier VI - AMX 12t  - poor

tier VII - AMX 13 75 why play this when the AMX 13 57 exists?

tier VIII - Bat Chatillion 12t - average to all right.

tier IX - AMX 13 90 - not as good as it used to be at tier VIII but it is an auto loader. So still can be fun.

tier X - second best tier X to the T-100 and less good than a USSR medium.

 

Germany

tier VI - VK28.01 - nerfed without the derp gun, sold it, so disappointing now. Needs a buff and the 105mm gun back.

tier VII - Spahpanzer SPIC - nerfed to hell

tier VIII - HWK 12 rubbish. Premium HWK 30 is better

tier IX - Spahpanzer RU 251 was decent at tier VIII but the leKpz M41 90 Blackdog is a better tier IX (yes I know it's a tier VIII premium)

tier X - Rheinmettal Panzerwagon - deeply below average.

 

UK

tier VII - GSR 3301 Setter - rubbish

tier VIII - LHMTV - garbage

tier IX - GSOR 3301 AVR FS - trash

tier X - Manticore - appalling, so far away from what it should have been.

The UK light tanks are on the whole the ones in most need of serious buffs not the least on their shell capacity let alone all their other characteristics. The really disappointing thing about them is that they are all blueprints and projects and the Scorpion FV101 and Scimitar of which hundreds were built did not even get into the tech tree. Deadly poor implementation by War Gaming.

 

CN

tier VI - 59-16 destroyed by removal of the autoloader

tier VII - WZ 131 - poor

tier VIII - WZ 132 - a shadow of it's former self

tier IX - WZ 132A - poor

tier X - WZ 132-1 - useless

 

USA

tier VI - T37 nerfed to hell

tier VII - T71 nerfed hard

tier VIII M41 Walker Bulldog - so good prior to the nerf, badly needs a buff

tier IX - T49 used to be amusing, how just sad.

tier X - XM551 Sherdian - poor

 

Comparison tables of tier X mediums ability to get to a bush undetected and then scout, with tier X light tanks in two graphs below.

Mediums

Lights

Pretty much tells you why tracked light tanks need to be buffed.

Graphs courtesy of Ham_ who created them.

Either the lights need more camo and view range, or the mediums need a nerf.

 

Totally agree on the Scimitar and Scorpion. Especially the latter.

I was expecting a new mechanic with autocannons, ACTUAL autocannons, say, with overheating, X mags that had to be manually loaded, fast vehicles that, once close enough, would rip even HTs to shreds.

 

Sadly it was not the case.

 

 

And the Chaffee... 77km/h + <3s reload = RIP E 25s, Jagdpanthers, Skorpions, etc. The speed + RoF combo was just murderous when played right.



arthurwellsley #13 Posted 07 May 2020 - 08:31 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 07 May 2020 - 07:27 PM, said:

 

Totally agree on the Scimitar and Scorpion. Especially the latter.

 

And the Chaffee... 77km/h + <3s reload = RIP E 25s, Jagdpanthers, Skorpions, etc. The speed + RoF combo was just murderous when played right.

 

No FV101 Scorpion and Scimitar really grates. Surely they could have fitted them in somewhere in the tech tree.

Also M24 Chaffee at tier V ruined in the nerfs as well.

 

 



WindSplitter1 #14 Posted 07 May 2020 - 08:40 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 07 May 2020 - 07:31 PM, said:

 

No FV101 Scorpion and Scimitar really grates. Surely they could have fitted them in somewhere in the tech tree.

Also M24 Chaffee at tier V ruined in the nerfs as well.

 

 

 

Found out why: Had to Wiki it but Scimitars destroyed T-62s. With a 30mm gun. Quite pathetic.

I guess it's a matter of pride. Soviet tanks challenge the enemies to see which gets the most crew deaths and that's a fight they seem to be successful at.



arthurwellsley #15 Posted 07 May 2020 - 08:59 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 07 May 2020 - 07:40 PM, said:

 

Found out why: Had to Wiki it but Scimitars destroyed T-62s. With a 30mm gun. Quite pathetic.

I guess it's a matter of pride. Soviet tanks challenge the enemies to see which gets the most crew deaths and that's a fight they seem to be successful at.

 

Try T62's crewed by elite highly trained professional crews versus hastily put together scratch conscript crews in Centurions.

Google

"Valley of Tears"



_GrooziN_ #16 Posted 07 May 2020 - 09:30 PM

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There are some lights that are quite ok. Incidentally, all of them are premium...except maybe of T71 DA.

Pansenmann #17 Posted 07 May 2020 - 09:38 PM

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I had the t8 brit LT for rent,

it's HE ammo is quite nice.

 

if anyone dares to check my vehicles played,

you will see that the T5 ELC AMX is still my most played tank

but it is rusting along in the garage for ages now, only to be played once in a blue moon.

 

I am very glad I bought 13 57 back when it was first released.

actually all premium (tracked) LT are better than their regular tech tree counterparts.

 

@OP
your poll lacks more options.

 

thank you  arthurwellsley for the comprehensive answer.



WindSplitter1 #18 Posted 07 May 2020 - 09:53 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 07 May 2020 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

Try T62's crewed by elite highly trained professional crews versus hastily put together scratch conscript crews in Centurions.

Google

"Valley of Tears"


So,

Assuming Wiki's numbers, even assuming the highest losses as per the Israelis, each of their Cents took out an average of 7. Seven enemy vehicles.

No disrespect intended as war is never pretty but it's obvious why they named the Valley as such.






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