Jump to content


Supertest: Lorraine 50t (Tier 9 FRA HT)

Supertest FRA HT tier 9

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

undutchable80 #1 Posted 08 May 2020 - 09:42 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 14883 battles
  • 4,958
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    10-30-2014

Source: https://thearmoredpa...-lorraine-50-t/

 

 

Lorraine 50 t. Initial parameters:

Tier: HT-9, France, special

HP: 1 900
Engine: 980 hp
Mass: 50,00 t
Maximum load: 53,00 t
Power-to-weight: 19,60 hp / t
Max speed/ reverse speed: 50 / -15 km / h
Hull turning speed: 30,00 °/s
Turret turning speed: 27,10 °/s
Terrain resistance values: 1,055 / 1,151 / 2,014
View range: 380 m
Radio range: 750 m

Hull armor: 155 / 60 / 40 mm
Turret armor: 300 / 80 / 40 mm

Gun: 120 mm D. 1203 P

Alpha Damage: 400 / 400 / 515
Penetration: 264 / 308 / 65 mm
Rate of fire: 4,171 rounds/minute
Damage per minute: 1 668,60
Reload time: 14,384 s
Accuracy at 100 m: 0,384
Aiming time: 2,88 s
Depression/Elevation: -10 ° / + — °
Shell speed: 1 067 m/s

Aim spread:

after firing: 2,877;
during turret rotation: 0.077;
while the vehicle is moving: 0.23;
during vehicle rotation: 0.23;
during turret rotation at maximum speed: 1.99;
at the maximum vehicle speed: 11.51;
at the maximum vehicle rotation speed: 6.90.

Camouflage Values:

stationary tank camouflage: 8.0%;
tank camouflage during motion: 4.0%;
stationary tank camouflage: 1.44%;
tank camouflage during motion: 0.72%.


Edited by undutchable80, 08 May 2020 - 09:45 AM.


leggasiini #2 Posted 08 May 2020 - 09:58 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 18609 battles
  • 6,532
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    12-01-2012

Not like it matters that much given how relevant historical accuracy is nowadays, but this tank makes...actually no sense.

 

It's obviously fake as hell, which ain't that bad but when you realize that they very well could've used the real thing instead, with exactly same role as this, without having to use any more effort than with this:

 

 

It uses 50 B hull, which already is modelled in-game, too, so they could literally recycle it and use it here. Instead, they went with a combination that not only is completely fictional but makes absolutely no sense in any way. I mean...Lorraine 40 t with more than triple the frontal armor? With the turret from AMX M4 51/54? And it magically only weights 10 tons more?

 

Sometimes having unhistorical tanks in a line or fill a specific niche as a premium/reward tank makes sense, but when you have a historical version of this that'd require just as little effort to put in to the game and you could even give it more or less the exactly same playstyle as this one, too, you know how little WG cares about historical accuracy nowadays.

 

That being said, it looks cool. However...I have no clue why the heck are they farting out so many tier 9 reward vehicles, even over tier 8 premiums (which they really haven't added much lately, its just the ISU-152K and even that is a clone), which you know, actually would make money for them. Some of these could be reward vehicles for next ranked battles season, but then you realize that there's so many tier 9s in supertest right now that not all of them can be reward for that. Really makes me wonder if they are planning to add tier 9 premiums or something, which wouldn't be too surprising, especially since literally every other WG title already has tier 9 premiums in some form.



pihip #3 Posted 08 May 2020 - 10:10 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 17342 battles
  • 1,602
  • Member since:
    01-11-2013

Well, it's not the first and will not be the last fake tank we get in the game, by now we should be used to that.

Still, I question the amount of armor this thing has - 155 raw with an angled pike UFP seems an awful lot, especially for a Lorraine hull (why not make the accurate 280mm UFP for M4 54 then?), and the turret seems to lack the weakspots found on the above mentioned M4 54 and the Tier 9 techtree counterpart M4 51 (the big cupolas at the rear).

Also, I too question why WG is making so many Tier 9 premiums. Concept 1B, Strv K, Object 752, the Tier 9 WZ tank destroyer, K-91-2, UDES 03 3, that's a lot of stuff. I've bought Tier 9 premiums in World of Warships so I would have no issues with them becoming a thing in World of Tanks as well, but that's just my semi-whale mentality at work here.

 

I also doubt all this stuff will be reward material, not everything at least.



LandserSkin #4 Posted 08 May 2020 - 12:23 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 34960 battles
  • 255
  • [HTKL] HTKL
  • Member since:
    05-12-2011

View Postleggasiini, on 08 May 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

Not like it matters that much given how relevant historical accuracy is nowadays, but this tank makes...actually no sense.

 

It's obviously fake as hell, which ain't that bad but when you realize that they very well could've used the real thing instead, with exactly same role as this, without having to use any more effort than with this:

 

 

It uses 50 B hull, which already is modelled in-game, too, so they could literally recycle it and use it here. Instead, they went with a combination that not only is completely fictional but makes absolutely no sense in any way. I mean...Lorraine 40 t with more than triple the frontal armor? With the turret from AMX M4 51/54? And it magically only weights 10 tons more?

 

Sometimes having unhistorical tanks in a line or fill a specific niche as a premium/reward tank makes sense, but when you have a historical version of this that'd require just as little effort to put in to the game and you could even give it more or less the exactly same playstyle as this one, too, you know how little WG cares about historical accuracy nowadays.

 

That being said, it looks cool. However...I have no clue why the heck are they farting out so many tier 9 reward vehicles, even over tier 8 premiums (which they really haven't added much lately, its just the ISU-152K and even that is a clone), which you know, actually would make money for them. Some of these could be reward vehicles for next ranked battles season, but then you realize that there's so many tier 9s in supertest right now that not all of them can be reward for that. Really makes me wonder if they are planning to add tier 9 premiums or something, which wouldn't be too surprising, especially since literally every other WG title already has tier 9 premiums in some form.

You forgot about the magically missing cupolas.

11:25 Added after 1 minute

View Postfor_Nooblord, on 08 May 2020 - 12:10 PM, said:

I also doubt all this stuff will be reward material, not everything at least.

Depends, maybe the FL and StH rewards will change next year. Maybe we will have more of them at once for RB so you get to choose. 



frange #5 Posted 08 May 2020 - 12:58 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 33236 battles
  • 242
  • [FRNR] FRNR
  • Member since:
    10-25-2013

Yet another tier IX... How many prem/special tier 9s have been presented the last 12 months? 7? 8? 

 

Smells like WG is up to something regarding tier IX - better hope it is not to start selling premium-nines to destroy IX the way they've already trashed tier VIII with idiot-OP prems the last years... Cause tier IX is about the only tier I play nowadays for actually having some good matches. Sure play a lot of lower tier as well - but that is mainly for crew training, missions, Tankrewards, Battle Pass, and so on.

 

Tier VIII is like only good for Frontlines nowadays.


Edited by frange, 08 May 2020 - 12:59 PM.


shikaka9 #6 Posted 08 May 2020 - 01:02 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 78498 battles
  • 2,404
  • [-SJA-] -SJA-
  • Member since:
    02-27-2013
aaaw right :great:

WingedArchon #7 Posted 08 May 2020 - 01:23 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 11721 battles
  • 149
  • Member since:
    10-31-2014

View Postfrange, on 08 May 2020 - 12:58 PM, said:

Tier VIII is like only good for Frontlines nowadays.

And then also just certain tanks at that.



fwhaatpiraat #8 Posted 08 May 2020 - 01:35 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 63442 battles
  • 2,639
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    05-04-2013

View Postleggasiini, on 08 May 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

Not like it matters that much given how relevant historical accuracy is nowadays, but this tank makes...actually no sense.

 

It's obviously fake as hell, which ain't that bad but when you realize that they very well could've used the real thing instead, with exactly same role as this, without having to use any more effort than with this:

 

 

It uses 50 B hull, which already is modelled in-game, too, so they could literally recycle it and use it here. Instead, they went with a combination that not only is completely fictional but makes absolutely no sense in any way. I mean...Lorraine 40 t with more than triple the frontal armor? With the turret from AMX M4 51/54? And it magically only weights 10 tons more?

 

Sometimes having unhistorical tanks in a line or fill a specific niche as a premium/reward tank makes sense, but when you have a historical version of this that'd require just as little effort to put in to the game and you could even give it more or less the exactly same playstyle as this one, too, you know how little WG cares about historical accuracy nowadays.

 

That being said, it looks cool. However...I have no clue why the heck are they farting out so many tier 9 reward vehicles, even over tier 8 premiums (which they really haven't added much lately, its just the ISU-152K and even that is a clone), which you know, actually would make money for them. Some of these could be reward vehicles for next ranked battles season, but then you realize that there's so many tier 9s in supertest right now that not all of them can be reward for that. Really makes me wonder if they are planning to add tier 9 premiums or something, which wouldn't be too surprising, especially since literally every other WG title already has tier 9 premiums in some form.

WG: 0        You: 1

 

:)



ZlatanArKung #9 Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:42 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 1537 battles
  • 5,779
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014
Unless they increase dpm of gun with like 600, the tank will be to bad.

SovietBias #10 Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:46 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 40691 battles
  • 1,990
  • Member since:
    06-10-2013

View PostZlatanArKung, on 08 May 2020 - 03:42 PM, said:

Unless they increase dpm of gun with like 600, the tank will be to bad.

 

Yeah. 1.6k is T34-like levels of DPM. 

 

Seems really bad for a tier IX.



Desyatnik_Pansy #11 Posted 08 May 2020 - 05:05 PM

    Bartender

  • Moderator
  • 19414 battles
  • 27,820
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View Postleggasiini, on 08 May 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

That being said, it looks cool.

 

The actual TCB Looks cooler though, as I've shown you before.

Spoiler

 

The turret + hull combination just looks wrong with the Lorraine hull. It's basically just the same thing as the Bourrasque, taking two unrelated things and throwing them together.



tajj7 #12 Posted 08 May 2020 - 05:20 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29617 battles
  • 17,927
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

Awful DPM plus meh alpha plus terrible gun handling. 

 

It being fake doesn't really bother me, loads of those in game, but I just don't get why they waste time testing tanks with such awful attributes.

 

The M4 51 has better armour than it, better DPM, better gun handling, so all you are getting is a bit more mobility. Seems a bad trade off to me. 

 

Also aren't there several tier 9 meds that'll basically do the same thing as this, but again with better mobility, better gun handling and better DPM? 

 

Maybe if they gave it the 127mm it might work, seeing as that gun is pretty poor on the M4 51 but on a more mobile tank would make more sense. 



anodjl #13 Posted 20 May 2020 - 11:41 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 11014 battles
  • 4,498
  • Member since:
    04-28-2013

Bonsoir, I am French and I speak with google trad.

 

Is Lorraine 50t a fake tank? not sure.
currently, we have no information which can confirm its existence, nevertheless, we can easily theorize it

 

In fact, in 1945 France launched its project which will give rise to the AMX-50B, the "projet de char moyen de 50t" (medium tank project of 50t), and the participants in the projects will propose several projects.
FCM 50t for FCM
AMX M4 and AMX-50 for AMX
SOMUA SM for Somua
Lorraine 40t for Lorraine


and that is only those we know, because we had access to even 1/4 of the information about this project ...
and this is the main problem we face with this project,
we did not have access to all the information. much of the information is not available.

 

return to the Lorraine 50t,
in 1951, the requirements of the program changed, it was required to mount a 120mm gun, the 120mm D.1203, 

a licensed production of the 120mm M58 from the US heavy tank M103 and the project became a heavy tank project .
(and yes, the AMX M4, AMX-50 90 and 100, the FCM 50t and the SOMUA SM are medium tanks. if we are looking for a way to end the french medium tank branch, know that there are 3 times more possibility of medium tanks after war than heavy tanks after war for WOT ...)

 

And when changing the armament, many problems appeared, notably for the Lorraine 40t, the lightest candidate.
for tanks like the AMX-50, it was not a problem, the AMX-50 100 was considered too large and too heavy for its armament of 100 mm,
so that there was no problem in mounting the 120 mm turret on the AMX-50 100

AMX-50 TOA
the 1st prototype of the AMX-50 120, recognizable because its optics are mounted on a cupola on the roof of the tank.

 

and for the other builders, they all gave up,

the FCM 50t had been abandoned before 1951.
the SOMUA SM accumulated enormous development delays which made it tested in 1953 when it still had the turret and 100 mm gun.
and for Lorraine, 

the Lorraine 40t would certainly have had too much trouble supporting the weight of the turret and the 120 mm gun

 

and it is from now on that we have more information and that we can only theorize with cross-checking of information.

 

because, as I said before, we did not have access to 1/4 of the information on the project. 

so a lot of information about the project is still completely unknown to the general public at present. all we can do is to crosscheck information from what we have.

 

and we know what?
-we know that lorraine participated in the 120 mm heavy tank project,
he did not withdraw from the project with the announcement of the change of armament, he withdrew afterwards.
it is therefore possible that they studied a Lorraine 40 t in a 120 mm heavy tank version,

 

-we know that the 120 mm turrets do not belong to the manufacturers, in fact there were manufacturers for the chassis and manufacturers for the turrets, this is why the Somua SM uses the same 100 mm turret as the AMX-50 100
so its turrets were compatible with the other tanks of the project unless otherwise stated,
it is thanks to this that we can confirm for example that a 120 mm version of the SOMUA SM existed

Spoiler


it is therefore possible that there was a 120 mm version of the Lorraine 40t.

Simply that we have no information of what it would have looked like.

 

a Lorraine 50t? it's possible,
and the issue of unrealistic weight is actually rather realistic.

Here is for example the technical data sheet of AMX-50B:

With its armor values:
Hull: 60/30/30
Turret: 85/40/40

 

these tanks are glass guns! they are lightly armored and therefore less heavy

the AMX-50 100 weighs 53.7 tonnes while the AMX-50B weighs 57.8 tonnes.

there are not even 5 tons of differences and yet they both were rejected because too heavy!

YES, because even if we went over a 120 mm gun, the weight limit of 50 tonnes for the medium tank project of 50 tonnes has not changed.

 

So a Lorraine 50t is not impossible because it falls within the weight limits of the project where the AMX are too heavy.

 

By cons, the stats of the tank on WOT, it's great no matter what, completely invented.

 

-the 50t medium tank project knew only 3 engines in all its development, a 1000 hp engine by Saurer in 1947 but which failed,

the Maybach HL 295 of 850 hp used by all the tanks of the project

and a Maybach HL 295 boosted to 1000 hp for the AMX-70t,

no 980 hp engine, it has nothing more than the 580 hp Maybach, the Saurer was abandoned since 1947 and the 1000 hp Maybach arrived in 1954-55,

nothing but the engine 850 ch during the period of supposed existence of Lorraine 50t in 1951

- the 120 mm D.1203 gun, it is the same 120 mm gun as the M103 US and the AMX M4 and AMX-50 and using the same ammunition,
they are therefore supposed to have all the same perforation stats.

 

in short, the Lorraine 50t, we have good reason to think that it existed, but we did not have access to information about the Lorraine 40t, so we cannot confirm it,

But Wargaming does not care about that and just builds the tank regardless of the information about it.

 

 


Edited by anodjl, 21 May 2020 - 01:12 AM.


anodjl #14 Posted 21 May 2020 - 12:01 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 11014 battles
  • 4,498
  • Member since:
    04-28-2013

I forgot to talk about the armor of the wargaming tank

 

 1-Although it is possible that the Lorraine 50t existed,

he certainly would not have used the heaviest turret in the project.

Precisely because it was already too heavy for the AMX-50!

 

2-155mm of hull frontal armor
Impossible, we saw it with the technical sheet of the AMX-50, these are glass guns,
even the AMX-70t

only had 130 mm of hull frontal armor.

 

 

 


Edited by anodjl, 21 May 2020 - 01:09 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users