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The_Naa #1 Posted 14 May 2020 - 12:26 AM

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Heyo :)

 

i have been wondering for quite some time that why do we have so much wasted space on the maps?

almost on every map there is some parts of the map that are basicly unused either because there is a position that has a strong control over or by either it has been blocked off and wasted.

had a look at all the maps and pulled a red line over the general area that is unused, unusable, or is very rarely used and if it is its by certain tank class, mostly Lights or Arty.

Spoiler

 

i would open up some of the areas by adding to them, cover bushes buildings Siegfried Line's field became fun and usable when WG added buldings in it for the RtB event. i would personally love that as it basically opens 50% of the map for gameplay. or removing and opening up some. the 2 big Black blocks in the city of Ruinberg could be awesome brawling areas for heavies if you could be able to drive there.

but why is this not the case? why do we have big maps where some parts of the maps are not used. like Highway where basicly the sides of the maps are used. 

Spoiler

 

i could go map by map on how i would improve it....

...maybe we should do that. as players usually complain about bad maps, so pick a map and modify that to your liking and post it here and tell us what you changed and why it would improve the map. :)

i shall do the same on ones that really need fixing. i bet this would be fun. :popcorn:


Edited by The_Naa, 14 May 2020 - 12:50 AM.


Balc0ra #2 Posted 14 May 2020 - 02:41 AM

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Back in 2014 we had a map called Hidden Village. And instantly people did complain that WG had lots of unused space on it. As half the map was not used as it had mountains surrounding the map. People were outraged and we had 5 topics a day about it. It was removed 2 years later after 2 or 3 reworks. Because ironically players only used 20% of the map they did get. As in it was basically mostly just 12 vs 14 matches on the HT lane.

 

Then again on the other side of it, you had Dragon Ridge... A map that had little wasted space. Used every inch. And still, only 1 lane was used for 15 vs 14 brawls. So having a bigger play area doesn't always mean it's gonna be used. Like that one I did not count on Dragons Ridge, was the one medium or light that went the 1 lane and had a freebee flank fire match vs 15 other targets on the 9 lane. It was basically a free Ace more or less.


Edited by Balc0ra, 14 May 2020 - 02:42 AM.


saxsan4 #3 Posted 14 May 2020 - 02:46 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 14 May 2020 - 01:41 AM, said:

Back in 2014 we had a map called Hidden Village. And instantly people did complain that WG had lots of unused space on it. As half the map was not used as it had mountains surrounding the map. People were outraged and we had 5 topics a day about it. It was removed 2 years later after 2 or 3 reworks. Because ironically players only used 20% of the map they did get. As in it was basically mostly just 12 vs 14 matches on the HT lane.

 

Then again on the other side of it, you had Dragon Ridge... A map that had little wasted space. Used every inch. And still, only 1 lane was used for 15 vs 14 brawls. So having a bigger play area doesn't always mean it's gonna be used. Like that one I did not count on Dragons Ridge, was the one medium or light that went the 1 lane and had a freebee flank fire match vs 15 other targets on the 9 lane. It was basically a free Ace more or less.


I LOVED hidden village and Severgosk and Stalingrad



3W1_ #4 Posted 14 May 2020 - 02:55 AM

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the mapdesigners suck. its that simple

General_Jack_D_Ripper #5 Posted 14 May 2020 - 03:06 AM

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I do not agree with the red lines on open areas of open maps.

 

Sure, u cannot go there right away, or in all classes, but nearly on all of the I thought: "Great for spoting"/ "Great for changing flanks mid-/lategame"



bnmm113 #6 Posted 14 May 2020 - 07:32 AM

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all fields are used by lights...

empty space in maps allows lights and some mediums to disengage and use their strenghts....



Szatanshow #7 Posted 14 May 2020 - 07:59 AM

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All that flat open wasted space kill zones is called "reworked" maps

Just bring us back old versions of all maps even unbalanced once were better than what we got now



wsatnutter #8 Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:04 AM

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View PostSzatanshow, on 14 May 2020 - 06:59 AM, said:

All that flat open wasted space kill zones is called "reworked" maps

Just bring us back old versions of all maps even unbalanced once were better than what we got now

a very valid point



_Signal_ #9 Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:13 AM

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Unfortunately the maps are designed for the average player in mind. If you actually had 80% of the map useable you would actually be able to flank people, I mean real flank not the forced pretend ones we have in the maps at the moment. Bad players have a bad enough time of it just playing these point and click corridor maps so I imagine the maps are pretty much 2 or 3 corridors in order to facilitate this and to stop them getting rinsed every game game.

More than likely it's a monentary mindset when it comes to maps, billybob isn't going to hang around too long if they get killed every match to someone outflanking them especially when his dream of owning a E100 to decimate the opponents has just cost him 30 quid in prem time and boosters etc.

 

Take the new map changes, few extra "windows" to camp from and removal of bushes "again" all just to facilitate static corridor slug fests that bad players love because they actually get to do some damage for once.


Edited by _Signal_, 14 May 2020 - 08:17 AM.


Venom7000 #10 Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:20 AM

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1. I wanted to report this thread to mods. The tittle made me think that you were talking about me. :D

 

2. Agree. There are some places where you just cant climb. As if suddenly your engine has 10hp. When in reality it should be accessible. 



Homer_J #11 Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:27 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 14 May 2020 - 02:41 AM, said:

 

Then again on the other side of it, you had Dragon Ridge... A map that had little wasted space. Used every inch.

 

What?

 

The low ground was unused, even by arty and on the original version all the fighting took place at one end of the ridge, maybe 10% of the entire map.  They then created a new area so we at least had fighting in two map squares.



TankkiPoju #12 Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:59 AM

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That "unused empty space" has a meaning in map design:

 

It's meant to diversity games, because it mixes up where people go.



_Signal_ #13 Posted 14 May 2020 - 09:11 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 14 May 2020 - 07:59 AM, said:

That "unused empty space" has a meaning in map design:

 

It's meant to diversity games, because it mixes up where people go.

Yet completely the opposite in WOT.



DiSaBor #14 Posted 14 May 2020 - 10:01 AM

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View Post_Signal_, on 14 May 2020 - 08:13 AM, said:

Unfortunately the maps are designed for the average player in mind. If you actually had 80% of the map useable you would actually be able to flank people, I mean real flank not the forced pretend ones we have in the maps at the moment. Bad players have a bad enough time of it just playing these point and click corridor maps so I imagine the maps are pretty much 2 or 3 corridors in order to facilitate this and to stop them getting rinsed every game game.

More than likely it's a monentary mindset when it comes to maps, billybob isn't going to hang around too long if they get killed every match to someone outflanking them especially when his dream of owning a E100 to decimate the opponents has just cost him 30 quid in prem time and boosters etc.

 

Take the new map changes, few extra "windows" to camp from and removal of bushes "again" all just to facilitate static corridor slug fests that bad players love because they actually get to do some damage for once.

This exactly

09:10 Added after 8 minute

View PostVenom7000, on 14 May 2020 - 08:20 AM, said:

 

. There are some places where you just cant climb. As if suddenly your engine has 10hp. When in reality it should be accessible. 

In Stuzanski (the poland map) the middle didge has some invisible walls, which made me killed once. I thought I could climb to avoid shots, but got stuck in the middle of nowhere like an idiot.

 

There are also (almost) hidden obstacles which flips your tank for no reason at all.

IDK what came across the decision makers head to put them into the game. This adds nothing positive, only anger/frustration, because players are punished not for there mistakes, but by randomness.


Edited by DiSaBor, 14 May 2020 - 10:11 AM.


The_Naa #15 Posted 14 May 2020 - 12:57 PM

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View PostGeneral_Jack_D_Ripper, on 14 May 2020 - 03:06 AM, said:

I do not agree with the red lines on open areas of open maps.

 

Sure, u cannot go there right away, or in all classes, but nearly on all of the I thought: "Great for spoting"/ "Great for changing flanks mid-/lategame"


yes they are. as i said some are used in some cases very rarely tho. like Kharkov. no one would dare to go through the 3-5 line early game expecting to fight some one or making the game turn out in their favour, because the hills that over see it on both sides are too strong and even late game i would think twice before going there. EBR's and LT's do use that however to spot, scout and yolo arty but other than that tank class almost no one else uses it.

and of course you can use them to flank when you know where the few slow enemy tanks are and move quickly across the plain field but would you really use the open Fields to flank there is yet an unspotted TD in the game. some times yes maybe in a other game, no.

point is they dont affect the gameplay that much when there Still is 15 tanks on each side. when its down to 1-4 last random tanks that are left then you might use them to do something.



The_Naa #16 Posted 14 May 2020 - 01:13 PM

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View Post_Signal_, on 14 May 2020 - 08:13 AM, said:

Unfortunately the maps are designed for the average player in mind. If you actually had 80% of the map useable you would actually be able to flank people, I mean real flank not the forced pretend ones we have in the maps at the moment. Bad players have a bad enough time of it just playing these point and click corridor maps so I imagine the maps are pretty much 2 or 3 corridors in order to facilitate this and to stop them getting rinsed every game game.

More than likely it's a monentary mindset when it comes to maps, billybob isn't going to hang around too long if they get killed every match to someone outflanking them especially when his dream of owning a E100 to decimate the opponents has just cost him 30 quid in prem time and boosters etc.

 

Take the new map changes, few extra "windows" to camp from and removal of bushes "again" all just to facilitate static corridor slug fests that bad players love because they actually get to do some damage for once.


that is good point. But i would argue that should we really just make maps simpler and easier to play just because bad players dont know how to play them?

if a bad player does not understand that you can not use the 8-9 line on Cliff if the enemy has a tank on the lighthouse hill, as the the tank on the lighthouse can punish the tanks that are trying to use the 8-9 flank.

should we remove the lighthouse hill from the game so bad players dont have to worry about the tank on the lighthouse or keep it there so they might actually learn to shoot the light tank first and fight for that powerful position?

will the bad players get any better if all their problems are taken away and making the maps easier for them?



darius_170 #17 Posted 14 May 2020 - 01:34 PM

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If you build up all map with houses and stones it will be like town map and light tank and TD players will be crying again. We had Stalingrad map with a lot of corridors buildings and ditches and what? Everybody was unhappy about it. But it was good for flanking, heavy tank fights and TD had some places to shoot passing enemies and close direction. I think If you make a lot of different directions players still be using most comfortable, and all team will be going to same point every time using just 20% of the map.

saxsan4 #18 Posted 14 May 2020 - 01:36 PM

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View Postdarius_170, on 14 May 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:

If you build up all map with houses and stones it will be like town map and light tank and TD players will be crying again. We had Stalingrad map with a lot of corridors buildings and ditches and what? Everybody was unhappy about it. But it was good for flanking, heavy tank fights and TD had some places to shoot passing enemies and close direction. I think If you make a lot of different directions players still be using most comfortable, and all team will be going to same point every time using just 20% of the map.


I loved Stalingrad



DuncaN_101 #19 Posted 14 May 2020 - 02:36 PM

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Don't worry... WG will put up adds for the prem shop there shortly so then you can even spend money whilst in game... Win win


Right?

Nebuched #20 Posted 14 May 2020 - 02:43 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 14 May 2020 - 12:26 AM, said:

Heyo :)

 

i have been wondering for quite some time that why do we have so much wasted space on the maps?

almost on every map there is some parts of the map that are basicly unused either because there is a position that has a strong control over or by either it has been blocked off and wasted.

had a look at all the maps and pulled a red line over the general area that is unused, unusable, or is very rarely used and if it is its by certain tank class, mostly Lights or Arty.

Spoiler

 

i would open up some of the areas by adding to them, cover bushes buildings Siegfried Line's field became fun and usable when WG added buldings in it for the RtB event. i would personally love that as it basically opens 50% of the map for gameplay. or removing and opening up some. the 2 big Black blocks in the city of Ruinberg could be awesome brawling areas for heavies if you could be able to drive there.

but why is this not the case? why do we have big maps where some parts of the maps are not used. like Highway where basicly the sides of the maps are used. 

Spoiler

 

i could go map by map on how i would improve it....

...maybe we should do that. as players usually complain about bad maps, so pick a map and modify that to your liking and post it here and tell us what you changed and why it would improve the map. :)

i shall do the same on ones that really need fixing. i bet this would be fun. :popcorn:

You have to buy the premium maps, where more space is unlocked. :trollface:

13:51 Added after 8 minute

View Postdarius_170, on 14 May 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:

If you build up all map with houses and stones it will be like town map and light tank and TD players will be crying again. We had Stalingrad map with a lot of corridors buildings and ditches and what? Everybody was unhappy about it. But it was good for flanking, heavy tank fights and TD had some places to shoot passing enemies and close direction. I think If you make a lot of different directions players still be using most comfortable, and all team will be going to same point every time using just 20% of the map.

On places like Paris and semi-city maps like Pilsen you have enough long firing lanes. I liked Stalingrad too, too bad it isn't re-added with a minor redesign.


Edited by Nebuched, 14 May 2020 - 02:47 PM.






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