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What do you get for playing Stronghold and Skirmishes?

Stronghold Skirmish

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EpsteinSenpai #1 Posted 19 May 2020 - 07:46 AM

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Title pretty much says it all. As far as I understood it, the clan does receive personal reserves for completing battles, but what does a player partaking in those battles get? Just credits and XP like in a random?

StronkiTonki #2 Posted 19 May 2020 - 07:52 AM

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It's been a long time since I had done any Skirmishes, so my info could be outdated.

Back when I played it, we would get a unique currency that is used to build buildings on a map.

These buildings could be leveled up using the same currency. And the buildings themselves could create clan boosters, also with the currency.

These boosters basically work like normal boosters, but are granted for the entire clan.

 

But like I said, this could all be outdated now, so I can't confirm it still works like this nowadays.



EpsteinSenpai #3 Posted 19 May 2020 - 08:00 AM

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View PostStronkiTonki, on 19 May 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

It's been a long time since I had done any Skirmishes, so my info could be outdated.

Back when I played it, we would get a unique currency that is used to build buildings on a map.

These buildings could be leveled up using the same currency. And the buildings themselves could create clan boosters, also with the currency.

These boosters basically work like normal boosters, but are granted for the entire clan.

 

But like I said, this could all be outdated now, so I can't confirm it still works like this nowadays.

Would that mean that the individual player only benefits from having said boosters active, thus earning a few more credits/XP? To me there doesn't seem to be a huge incentive to even play that mode either, I just wanted to make sure im not missing something. 



Cobra6 #4 Posted 19 May 2020 - 08:35 AM

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View PostEpsteinSenpai, on 19 May 2020 - 07:00 AM, said:

Would that mean that the individual player only benefits from having said boosters active, thus earning a few more credits/XP? To me there doesn't seem to be a huge incentive to even play that mode either, I just wanted to make sure im not missing something. 

 

Pretty much afaik.

 

Yeah the incentives were largely taken away when Wargaming implemented their failed Skill-Based MM into this mode. This turned skirmishes into yet another tryhard mode no one was looking for.

Before, skirmishes were a very relaxed game mode where you could play in a coordinated fashion against a truly random other team playing in a coordinated fashion.

This meant that if you were a team of good players, you could easily win most matches you played, since you know, you are good, which is the whole reward for being good, winning more.

And you were not only having a lot of fun, you were also making quite a bit of credits and xp while doing so.

For a long time, this was the most enjoyable mode in WoT to play with your clan.

 

But then Wargaming in their infinite wisdom decided you should only be matched against teams of similar skill level which instantly meant it suddenly turned into a try-hard mode where you have to play flavor of the month tanks if you want to stand a chance of winning.

Gone is the relaxed nature of the mode and all the enjoyability pretty much.

 

This change was applauded by a certain demographic of the players as they thought they would now have an easier time winning against players of similar skill but they didn't realise they would now lose pretty much just as much *AND* not learn to improve as they were just fighting players with similar tactical insights instead of better.

 

We can forget WG ever removing the failed SMM from skirmishes so that mode is pretty much done, you are better off playing randoms in a platoon although you will be punished for that as well as you'll be bottom tier most of the time (platoons get harsher MM then random players).

 

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Immensive #5 Posted 19 May 2020 - 08:47 AM

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Skirmishes are my main credit income for credits in wot. You can make big amount of credits in short time.
In T8 you can make up to 100 - 200k credits for each winning game while running clan boosters for credits.

Always depends how serious a clan is taking the mode (The aim should it be to get as much games as possible per hour instead of long term 10 min games). 
 



Darth_Infektid #6 Posted 19 May 2020 - 08:48 AM

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If you are a solo player not much - apart from grinding some credits and trying to grind your crap/non upgraded tier 8s (if the rest of the team is ok with it - which its not the norm)

 

In a clan - besides playing with your buddies, you win boxes and  feed those to credit boosts to be used in skirmishes, so you are grinding A LOT of credits, but it gets tiresome really fast.

 

 

 



Long_Range_Sniper #7 Posted 19 May 2020 - 08:53 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 19 May 2020 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yeah the incentives were largely taken away when Wargaming implemented their failed Skill-Based MM into this mode. This turned skirmishes into yet another tryhard mode no one was looking for.

 

This.

 

They are a stepping stone for some players towards CW, and you would think that the WG employee whose turn it is to use the company brain for the day might realise this and turn it back.

 

You read the feedback for CW and many clans with decent players complain about not being able to get enough points because good clans dominate with multiple teams on the global map. If you're a clan with only 20+ players who want to do team modes, then you just get matched against similar clans in SH. Which means you never improve, never gain the tricks and skills to compete in full CW, and when you do CW you get frustrated, so don't do CW.

 

Then the only point of SH is literally to face off against equally good players and batter yourself into submission through equal incompetence. They can pay decent credits, but you can grind them out in FL now and there's at least a reward tank there.

 

To boost CW participation, boost player skill levels across the board, and re-invigorate SH all WG need to do is remove their failed SBMM. What compounds the issue is they also fail to explain the benefits of SBMM in SH. 

 

I suppose we could always wait for a member of the community team to spot this thread and give an answer.

 

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TheDrownedApe #8 Posted 19 May 2020 - 08:57 AM

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Zero

 

Ignore those "paid" to say it is a great money making mode and focus on the multiple posts that say the mode is dead and ruined by WG


Edited by TheDrownedApe, 19 May 2020 - 09:00 AM.


arthurwellsley #9 Posted 19 May 2020 - 11:31 AM

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Stronghold and Skirmishes now allow the clan to build buildings and from those buildings create "reserves". The reserves are similar to personal boosters. However once the building is at level 12 the reserves created become much more powerful. The top level reserve from a tier 12 building lasts for 2 hours. During clan activities the silver booster will boost the silver making of those engaged in clan activities by +150%. At the same time all other clan members who are playing in randoms will see their silver income increased by 30%. Thus if you are a modest player with a PR of about 6,000 playing Stronghold/Skirmish at tier VIII with a clan booster turned on, it is a good way to make decent amounts of silver. In addition you get to play in organised teams using voice communication which is a different mode and feel from random 15 x 15 games and makes a nice change of pace.

 

To all  the above posters who have a PR rating above 6,000 and say that Skirmish has been ruined by WG implementing a skill based match maker;

1. You said this when WG implemented the change (February 2017).

2. Despite all your protestations that Skirmish has been ruined by skill based match making WG has not listened to you and returned skirmish to what it was before. There is a huge thread back in November 2018 when a great many very strong players asked for an end to skill based match making on the forum, it even got mentioned by a WG staff member. But despite that skirmish still has skill based match making three years later.

3. Might this be because WG sees the statistics that show greater participation of numbers of players with PR under 6000 (in low elo clans)?

4. Might this be because since the change to skill based match making players in clans with average PR of 6000 and below (low elo clans) are no longer being regularly smashed by teams of players with 9000 PR (and high elo rating)?

5. Who knows, because only WG hold these type of numbers across their servers.



Long_Range_Sniper #10 Posted 19 May 2020 - 11:42 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 19 May 2020 - 10:31 AM, said:

To all  the above posters who have a PR rating above 6,000 and say that Skirmish has been ruined by WG implementing a skill based match maker;

1. You said this when WG implemented the change (February 2017).

2. Despite all your protestations that Skirmish has been ruined by skill based match making WG has not listened to you and returned skirmish to what it was before. There is a huge thread back in November 2018 when a great many very strong players asked for an end to skill based match making on the forum, it even got mentioned by a WG staff member. But despite that skirmish still has skill based match making three years later.

3. Might this be because WG sees the statistics that show greater participation of numbers of players with PR under 6000 (in low elo clans)?

4. Might this be because since the change to skill based match making players in clans with average PR of 6000 and below (low elo clans) are no longer being regularly smashed by teams of players with 9000 PR (and high elo rating)?

5. Who knows, because only WG hold these type of numbers across their servers.

 

Hence my comment arthur.....

 

View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 19 May 2020 - 07:53 AM, said:

What compounds the issue is they also fail to explain the benefits of SBMM in SH. 

 

I suppose we could always wait for a member of the community team to spot this thread and give an answer.

 

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A community team who treat their players like mushrooms is never going to build a greater understanding of the hidden benefits of SH with SBMM to the game.

 

Is it really that difficult for a Community Manager to quickly ask someone and reply with "After SBMM we saw player numbers increase in SH, there was a strong correlation between players who played SH and subsequently played CW."

 

End of discussion.

 

Maybe a different discussion should be why asking that question and communicating the answer is too difficult?



fwhaatpiraat #11 Posted 19 May 2020 - 11:47 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 19 May 2020 - 08:35 AM, said:

 

Pretty much afaik.

 

Yeah the incentives were largely taken away when Wargaming implemented their failed Skill-Based MM into this mode. This turned skirmishes into yet another tryhard mode no one was looking for.

Before, skirmishes were a very relaxed game mode where you could play in a coordinated fashion against a truly random other team playing in a coordinated fashion.

This meant that if you were a team of good players, you could easily win most matches you played, since you know, you are good, which is the whole reward for being good, winning more.

And you were not only having a lot of fun, you were also making quite a bit of credits and xp while doing so.

For a long time, this was the most enjoyable mode in WoT to play with your clan.

 

But then Wargaming in their infinite wisdom decided you should only be matched against teams of similar skill level which instantly meant it suddenly turned into a try-hard mode where you have to play flavor of the month tanks if you want to stand a chance of winning.

Gone is the relaxed nature of the mode and all the enjoyability pretty much.

 

This change was applauded by a certain demographic of the players as they thought they would now have an easier time winning against players of similar skill but they didn't realise they would now lose pretty much just as much *AND* not learn to improve as they were just fighting players with similar tactical insights instead of better.

 

We can forget WG ever removing the failed SMM from skirmishes so that mode is pretty much done, you are better off playing randoms in a platoon although you will be punished for that as well as you'll be bottom tier most of the time (platoons get harsher MM then random players).

 

Cobra 6

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EpsteinSenpai #12 Posted 19 May 2020 - 11:49 AM

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Why did players complain about a skill based MM tho? Wouldn' you want to fight against equal opponents (disregarding the flawed logic behind the PR)?

Long_Range_Sniper #13 Posted 19 May 2020 - 12:11 PM

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View PostEpsteinSenpai, on 19 May 2020 - 10:49 AM, said:

Why did players complain about a skill based MM tho? Wouldn' you want to fight against equal opponents (disregarding the flawed logic behind the PR)?

 

Same reasons as for randoms.

 

Plus as you identify, they use a performance measure obtained in one mode to match teams in a totally different mode. So to maintain your equality of opponent you have to play the mode frequently enough so that any matching through PR actually matches you equally in SH as well. This is not the case.

 

So you get a disparity of matching. A casual clan (whatever their individual PR's) get's matched against tryhard clans at all levels. You just have to look at the clans with gaps for legionnaires. There are 3000 PR clans who do a lot of SH and they are "tryhard" at their level. 

 

For SBMM to actually deliver more equal team matchups it should use a SH performance measure, and not one borrowed from randoms. It's a classic case of someone not understanding you measure what you value, and they are adding value to something they can measure.

 

IF WG value equality of play in SH, then measure performance in SH. They've just gone for something they already measure and added a value to that. Wrong way around.



Sjiebert #14 Posted 19 May 2020 - 12:12 PM

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Is there really skill based mm in skirmishes? I know there is in advances, but in skirmishes I regularly walk into much better clans than mine.

Long_Range_Sniper #15 Posted 19 May 2020 - 12:13 PM

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View PostSjiebert, on 19 May 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

Is there really skill based mm in skirmishes? I know there is in advances, but in skirmishes I regularly walk into much better clans than mine.

 

I may be wrong but I think the same compromises have to be made as per random matchmaking. They're going to go with the best they can get within a reasonable period of time.



aps1 #16 Posted 19 May 2020 - 12:21 PM

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I play these modes most the time at a loss to my credit stack(if playing t 10) why do I play them? Well it gives the clan a chance to practice team work and tactics for CW . The more you play the better you get and also playing regular will mean you get picked more in CW as you have shown loyalty and a willing to participate even when the rewards are nothing. And we all know the juicy rewards are in clan wars.

unhappy__bunny #17 Posted 19 May 2020 - 12:33 PM

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What do you get for playing Stronghold and Skirmishes?

 

 

Exactly what I want from a game, Fun, entertainment, a good time on comms with clan mates, laughs, banter. Anything else is a bonus.

 

Why do some people want to make a game into a job? 

 

Everytime WG introduce a new mode, to increase or revive players interest in the game, the same people start complaining that the rewards are poor, or it takes too long to get a reward, its too hard or too easy. No wonder so many seem to dislike the game (of course they keep on playing) when they have turned it from a game into a form of work. 



Cobra6 #18 Posted 19 May 2020 - 01:05 PM

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View PostEpsteinSenpai, on 19 May 2020 - 10:49 AM, said:

Why did players complain about a skill based MM tho? Wouldn' you want to fight against equal opponents (disregarding the flawed logic behind the PR)?

 

Because the reward of being good should be that you win more. The reward should not be to get only tougher opponents progressively up the ladder. There is no reward in that, it's just punishment for being good.

 

With random skirmish MM we had before, you'd play against a realistic reflection of the playerbase of WoT, most players are bad and some are good. As a good team you played 20 matches and 2 of those were against teams of equal skill and 18 were against teams of inferior skill, because that is what the playerbase boils down to.

 

Skirmishes has now basically turned into "CW light" which is just annoying, if I wanted to play more CW's I'd play more CW's.

 

View Postunhappy__bunny, on 19 May 2020 - 11:33 AM, said:

Why do some people want to make a game into a job?

 

I'm asking myself the same question because that's what skirmishes have become since WG introduced SBMM in them.

Tryhard (job) or go home.

 

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EpsteinSenpai #19 Posted 19 May 2020 - 01:37 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 19 May 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

Because the reward of being good should be that you win more. The reward should not be to get only tougher opponents progressively up the ladder. There is no reward in that, it's just punishment for being good.

 

With random skirmish MM we had before, you'd play against a realistic reflection of the playerbase of WoT, most players are bad and some are good. As a good team you played 20 matches and 2 of those were against teams of equal skill and 18 were against teams of inferior skill, because that is what the playerbase boils down to.

 

With that kind of logic ripped, professional boxers on roids should compete against fat, unfit amateur boxers because they are naturally stronger and "deserve" to win more often. 



fwhaatpiraat #20 Posted 19 May 2020 - 01:47 PM

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View PostEpsteinSenpai, on 19 May 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

With that kind of logic ripped, professional boxers on roids should compete against fat, unfit amateur boxers because they are naturally stronger and "deserve" to win more often. 

Most WoT players play the game for fun I bet. I used to love skirmishes, was fun and relaxed. Now it's a drag and unfun. I bet that's why it used to be more popular.







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