Jump to content


Manticore Ammo capacity and Grand battles

Manticore Balancing Tier 10 light

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

thetopcat #1 Posted 21 May 2020 - 12:01 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28634 battles
  • 83
  • [BONK] BONK
  • Member since:
    12-08-2012
So having recently got the Manticore I've just had my first grand battle in it. Used every round of ammo it had, 
20 fired
16 hit
7 pen
I was left at the end circling an Strv 103B with no ammo waiting for anyone else to shoot it till the Game timer ran out. 
Having such a low ammo capacity should not be a balancing mechanic, if you have to go in to a battle with double the amount of tanks as a normal battle it should have more than 20 rounds of ammo.
Batchat 25t is famous for low ammo and that has 30 rounds. 

Comparison for other tier 10 light tanks potential damage:
AMX 13 105:                                     33 shells at 390 damage = 12870 potential
EBR 105                                           35 shells at 390 damage = 13650 potential
Rhm pzw                                           35 shells at 320 damage = 11200 potential
T100lt                                                41 shells at 300 damage = 12300 potential 
Sheridan with 105 gun                      42 shells at 390 damage = 16380 potential
Wz-132                                             40 shells at 390 damage = 15600 potential

Manticore                                          20 shells at 390 damage = 7800 potential      = a joke. 

Edited by thetopcat, 21 May 2020 - 12:04 AM.


vp56 #2 Posted 21 May 2020 - 12:10 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 3424 battles
  • 191
  • [-UM] -UM
  • Member since:
    01-10-2013

Isn't the Manticore really good at, like, passive scouting?

Fine, I get what you mean. Ammo capacity seems to be completely arbitrary. It would generally make a wee bit of sense that tanks couldn't carry a full complement of both regular and premium ammo, but that certainly does not seem to be the case.

 

Of course, being a tank basically dedicated to 'passive scouting', you may find the lack of shell suitable. As you have proven, there are plenty of other tanks to play, should you find the need to play a more 'active' role on the battlefield. If you are a very dedicated tea-drinker, you may instead want to turn off 'grand battles'. Most seem to have already, anyway, for darn good reasons.



The_Naa #3 Posted 21 May 2020 - 12:11 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 11349 battles
  • 2,209
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

View Postthetopcat, on 21 May 2020 - 12:01 AM, said:


Comparison for other tier 10 light tanks potential damage:
AMX 13 105:                                     33 shells at 390 damage = 12870 potential
EBR 105                                           35 shells at 390 damage = 13650 potential
Rhm pzw                                           35 shells at 320 damage = 11200 potential
T100lt                                                41 shells at 300 damage = 12300 potential 
Sheridan with 105 gun                      42 shells at 390 damage = 16380 potential
Wz-132                                             40 shells at 390 damage = 15600 potential

Manticore                                          20 shells at 390 damage = 7800 potential      = a joke. 

 

but shouldnt the Maticore be dead easy to get MoE's on atleast?

since it can do such a pathetic amount of potential damage. :unsure:



thetopcat #4 Posted 21 May 2020 - 12:29 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28634 battles
  • 83
  • [BONK] BONK
  • Member since:
    12-08-2012

View Postvp56, on 20 May 2020 - 11:10 PM, said:

Isn't the Manticore really good at, like, passive scouting?

Fine, I get what you mean. Ammo capacity seems to be completely arbitrary. It would generally make a wee bit of sense that tanks couldn't carry a full complement of both regular and premium ammo, but that certainly does not seem to be the case.

 

Of course, being a tank basically dedicated to 'passive scouting', you may find the lack of shell suitable. As you have proven, there are plenty of other tanks to play, should you find the need to play a more 'active' role on the battlefield. If you are a very dedicated tea-drinker, you may instead want to turn off 'grand battles'. Most seem to have already, anyway, for darn good reasons.

Yes and no. It has high camouflage but stock view range is 400, lower than the rhm and sheridan.
 
If that's the logic we're following the EBR should have no ammo either. Its meant to only be good at active scouting.... 



Desyatnik_Pansy #5 Posted 21 May 2020 - 01:00 AM

    Bartender

  • Moderator
  • 19402 battles
  • 27,780
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostThe_Naa, on 21 May 2020 - 12:11 AM, said:

but shouldnt the Maticore be dead easy to get MoE's on atleast?

since it can do such a pathetic amount of potential damage. :unsure:

 

Marks usually have nothing to do with potential damage of a vehicle. A Progetto having higher mark reqs than say a Pershing isn't due to ammo capacity, since the Pershing has 25 More shells (in truth I don't know the mark reqs of either tank). It's a combination of how good the tank is and who plays it really, and in the Manticore's case.. well, what's the quote from the Q&A With Circon. Right, that it's the least popular line in the least popular class or something? Yeaaaah.



Nebuched #6 Posted 21 May 2020 - 01:04 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14750 battles
  • 497
  • Member since:
    05-20-2015

View Postthetopcat, on 21 May 2020 - 12:01 AM, said:

So having recently got the Manticore I've just had my first grand battle in it. Used every round of ammo it had, 
20 fired
16 hit
7 pen
I was left at the end circling an Strv 103B with no ammo waiting for anyone else to shoot it till the Game timer ran out. 
Having such a low ammo capacity should not be a balancing mechanic, if you have to go in to a battle with double the amount of tanks as a normal battle it should have more than 20 rounds of ammo.
Batchat 25t is famous for low ammo and that has 30 rounds. 

Comparison for other tier 10 light tanks potential damage:
AMX 13 105:                                     33 shells at 390 damage = 12870 potential
EBR 105                                           35 shells at 390 damage = 13650 potential
Rhm pzw                                           35 shells at 320 damage = 11200 potential
T100lt                                                41 shells at 300 damage = 12300 potential 
Sheridan with 105 gun                      42 shells at 390 damage = 16380 potential
Wz-132                                             40 shells at 390 damage = 15600 potential

Manticore                                          20 shells at 390 damage = 7800 potential      = a joke. 

Can't be a balancing mechanic for the Manticore because it wasnt so OP as to need this balancing measure to begin with. It's just a mistake. 



azakow #7 Posted 21 May 2020 - 01:09 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 85563 battles
  • 5,251
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

View Postthetopcat, on 21 May 2020 - 12:01 AM, said:

So having recently got the Manticore I've just had my first grand battle in it. Used every round of ammo it had, 
20 fired
16 hit
7 pen
I was left at the end circling an Strv 103B with no ammo waiting for anyone else to shoot it till the Game timer ran out. 
Having such a low ammo capacity should not be a balancing mechanic, if you have to go in to a battle with double the amount of tanks as a normal battle it should have more than 20 rounds of ammo.
Batchat 25t is famous for low ammo and that has 30 rounds. 

Comparison for other tier 10 light tanks potential damage:
AMX 13 105:                                     33 shells at 390 damage = 12870 potential
EBR 105                                           35 shells at 390 damage = 13650 potential
Rhm pzw                                           35 shells at 320 damage = 11200 potential
T100lt                                                41 shells at 300 damage = 12300 potential 
Sheridan with 105 gun                      42 shells at 390 damage = 16380 potential
Wz-132                                             40 shells at 390 damage = 15600 potential

Manticore                                          20 shells at 390 damage = 7800 potential      = a joke. 

... all that grinding blueprints, universals and free XP wasted for a pile of ...

Relaity is hard, I feel for you.

You knew before, didn't you?

 

View PostThe_Naa, on 21 May 2020 - 12:11 AM, said:

 

but shouldnt the Maticore be dead easy to get MoE's on atleast?

since it can do such a pathetic amount of potential damage. :unsure:

Are sure to know how MoE works?

I dont' think so.


Edited by azakow, 21 May 2020 - 01:13 AM.


The_Naa #8 Posted 21 May 2020 - 01:19 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 11349 battles
  • 2,209
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

View Postazakow, on 21 May 2020 - 01:09 AM, said:

 

Are sure to know how MoE works?

I dont' think so.

 

Damage is countedin addition spotting or tracking assist is counted. Thats all the basic factors that matter.

But ye I dont use mods to tell me what I need to do in a battle to improve my MoE %.

But so far i've been doing fine with just killing people and helping killing people.

 

But I would assume if we had a tank that could only carry say 5 shells that do 200 damage, and if you hit those five round every game + some spots it comes far easier to do a MoE than a tank that has 100 shells that do 200 damage.

Maybe. You tell me. I did phrase it as a question. 


Edited by The_Naa, 21 May 2020 - 01:20 AM.


Balc0ra #9 Posted 21 May 2020 - 01:50 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 77184 battles
  • 23,216
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012
Well, when the WG devs talked to Circon last week. They made it clear the Manticore is the best performing tier X light in terms of damage in randoms. Thus no plans to increase the ammo is in the works atm. Tho I doubt they have considered GB in that aspect.

DangerMouse #10 Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:15 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 31540 battles
  • 1,432
  • [FLOG] FLOG
  • Member since:
    10-28-2010
It certainly needs more ammo for grand battles, have rum out before and as last man alive it's sad just driving around dodging the enemy.

thetopcat #11 Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:19 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28634 battles
  • 83
  • [BONK] BONK
  • Member since:
    12-08-2012

View Postazakow, on 21 May 2020 - 12:09 AM, said:

... all that grinding blueprints, universals and free XP wasted for a pile of ...

Reality is hard, I feel for you.

You knew before, didn't you?

I did know. 35k free research and blueprints came to me for free so i thought i would try it. Its as bad as people say 
 

View PostBalc0ra, on 21 May 2020 - 12:50 AM, said:

Well, when the WG devs talked to Circon last week. They made it clear the Manticore is the best performing tier X light in terms of damage in randoms. Thus no plans to increase the ammo is in the works atm. Tho I doubt they have considered GB in that aspect.

I had a look on tanks.gg and its 3rd for damage on both Eu and Ru servers with sub 1200 damage. Shame they feel like that 



azakow #12 Posted 21 May 2020 - 11:15 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 85563 battles
  • 5,251
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

View Postthetopcat, on 21 May 2020 - 09:19 AM, said:

I did know. 35k free research and blueprints came to me for free so i thought i would try it. Its as bad as people say

Played with the idea to get Manticore "to get my own picture" of it, but found no reason at all. Naval gun ain't enough.



WindSplitter1 #13 Posted 21 May 2020 - 03:50 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 21332 battles
  • 3,906
  • [WINDY] WINDY
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostBalc0ra, on 21 May 2020 - 12:50 AM, said:

Well, when the WG devs talked to Circon last week. They made it clear the Manticore is the best performing tier X light in terms of damage in randoms. Thus no plans to increase the ammo is in the works atm. Tho I doubt they have considered GB in that aspect.

 

Spot on, as always.

 

Furthermore they stated that some vehicles and their ammunition capacity are historically accurate and as such there were no plans to ever change that.

 

In the Manticore's case, the reasoning is that, it doesn't need buffs because right now it's the best performing Tier X LT. AB himself admits that this is due only good players playing this vehicle (probably because of gunmarks, etc).

At the same they, they know for a fact, this is the least popular vehicle branch in the LT Class.

 

There are plenty of reasons not to balance vehicles around their ammunition capacities, but WG does seldomly ever listen to what is reasonable.



qpranger #14 Posted 21 May 2020 - 04:28 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 38889 battles
  • 6,340
  • [HAMMY] HAMMY
  • Member since:
    12-25-2013


Balc0ra #15 Posted 21 May 2020 - 05:36 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 77184 battles
  • 23,216
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View Postthetopcat, on 21 May 2020 - 09:19 AM, said:

I had a look on tanks.gg and its 3rd for damage on both Eu and Ru servers with sub 1200 damage. Shame they feel like that 

 

Keep in mind that stat sites get their info differently then WG does. As WG get it directly from the server using data points stat sites won't get to use. And stat sites usually get their data from a smaller group like their uses, or users of other services or even replay sites etc vs the whole server. Thus as stat sites always indicate, as the data is not official, it might be way off. It's why I did use vbaddict as a pointer back in the day vs a reliable source. As that was based on user dossiers alone vs server stats. So that WG sits on different info... I have no doubt about.

 

That said, they also said that the tier X was the only popular one. The others were so little used, they did not even have much data to get any indication on what buffs to add, if any.

 

 

 

 

 

 



azakow #16 Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:34 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 85563 battles
  • 5,251
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

View PostBalc0ra, on 21 May 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

That said, they also said that the tier X was the only popular one. The others were so little used, they did not even have much data to get any indication on what buffs to add, if any.

 

@WG!

Be creative and have a setup of events and misssion to find out - for cry sake! (i.e. naval gunr simply dot hook!)



Balc0ra #17 Posted 21 May 2020 - 07:14 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 77184 battles
  • 23,216
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View Postazakow, on 21 May 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

@WG!

Be creative and have a setup of events and misssion to find out - for cry sake! (i.e. naval gunr simply dot hook!)

 

To be fair, as we have also seen, events with only one focus can only find out that much. Even with limited data in randoms vs a few targets vs everything. Some stats I suspect will stand out. Sure they might have more or the same assistance as other lights as they have pointed out before. But if their average damage is 5 miles behind the 2nd worst one as an extreme example. Do they need more varied data?



thetopcat #18 Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:30 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28634 battles
  • 83
  • [BONK] BONK
  • Member since:
    12-08-2012

View Postqpranger, on 21 May 2020 - 03:28 PM, said:

I appreciate the effort you put in here, thanks
All i'm suggesting is if its going to put me in them (platoon leader has it on) it should be balanced 



tajj7 #19 Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:28 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29474 battles
  • 17,750
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

Yeh it's stupid, but it's just a bad tank that people should avoid like the plague, which in the most part people are doing, because barely anyone has one and barely anyone plays it.

 

When WG realise that and realise their development time for the whole line was a giant waste of time because they made the vehicles all so bad no one wants to play them, then it'll probably get buffed, but it usually takes them a while.

 

We've had it in the game for what a good 9 months now? And yet only 12k are owned on the EU server according to WOTnews and barely 1.7k were played last month. More people own Chieftains, and more people played the terrible 215b last month. Hell even the terrible Flipwagon which has been awful in the game for about 2 years now, 1.2k masochists are playing that, which just shows how woefully unpopular the Manticore is. 

 

 



Nebuched #20 Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:07 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14750 battles
  • 497
  • Member since:
    05-20-2015

View PostBalc0ra, on 21 May 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

That said, they also said that the tier X was the only popular one. The others were so little used, they did not even have much data to get any indication on what buffs to add, if any.

 

There are so many ways around that. They can play it themselves and analyse what is lacking, or just check the wiki for a list of cons they can ameliorate to make the 7,8,9 less bad.







Also tagged with Manticore, Balancing, Tier 10 light

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users