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Split light tanks into two classes


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saxsan4 #1 Posted 21 May 2020 - 04:14 AM

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Hello,

 

Here me out

 

Light tanks at the moment include armoured cars which are not tanks at all. It was like if arty was included in TDs as one class. Really armoured cars should be their own class, with a circle as the icon and balanced like arty. max 3 per side and if one team has armoured cars, so should the other. this will allow light tanks to be balanced with each other again and be more historically accurate as all other games and in real life armoured cars are not considered light tanks but their own class 



StronkiTonki #2 Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:39 AM

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In this case I'll want a split between Self Propelled Guns and Artillery, indluding the TD's that are actually SPG's. Maybe have one be a normal square, and the other one an upside down square.

I also think that glass canon TD's like a Nashorn should have a different class than TD's with armor like a JagdTiger, because they are not the same. One can have a triangle made of glass icon, while the other one has a triangle made of bricks icon.

I also think that stuff like the T-62A, Leopard 1 and many other should be reclassed as Main Battle Tanks and should have an "M" icon inside it.

Maus and Type 5 and others should be reclasses to superheavies, they should get 4 stripes instead of 3 that heavies have in the icon.

Also super heavy TD's like the T95 and JagdPanzer E-100 should be reclassed, because they are very different than most other tanks. They could have an anvil icon.

Swedish TD's and Mediums and the STB-1 should also be reclassed, because they have hydraulic suspension/siege mode, not like normal tanks. And should get an "S" icon.

I also think double barreled tanks should be reclassed to it's own thing, because normal tanks don't have two guns. They should get a "2" icon.

Autoloaders should be reclassed because they're not like normal tanks as well, they should get an "A" icon.

Open top vehicles like the Hellcat should be reclassed as well, because they're not like normal tanks and have an open top, which makes them more vulnerable to artillery. They should get an icon of a cabrio car.

Small vehicles like the Polish TKS and a bunch of others should be reclassed as Tankettes with a pacifier icon.

All British Lights, except the Senlac, should be reclassed as "Garbage" as well, because they're not like other tanks. They should have a poop icon.

 

Oh, and the AMX 40 should be reclassed with a duck icon.


Edited by StronkiTonki, 21 May 2020 - 06:41 AM.


Kooallu #3 Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:55 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 21 May 2020 - 05:14 AM, said:

Hello,

 

Here me out

 

. max 3 per side and if one team has armoured cars, so should the other.

 

i have never seen that other team dont have wheeled light, there is allways ebr at both sides, but i have seen that other team has arty and enemy team dont have :)



Anna_Kalashnikova #4 Posted 21 May 2020 - 07:14 AM

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Making wvs an own class would make light tank crews unusable for wheeled crews and vice versa. That's a disadvantage, so why should we, the players demand this? In real life all tanks do not have hitpoints, displayed for friend and enemy, so why should the real life be an argument?

 

The matchmaker is capable of handling wvs and LTs differently even when they are the same class.

 

In conclusion: no extra class for wheelies



Orkbert #5 Posted 21 May 2020 - 07:20 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 21 May 2020 - 04:14 AM, said:

 

Light tanks at the moment include armoured cars which are not tanks at all.

 

So every military in the world has gotten it wrong? Now that's something...



Robbie_T #6 Posted 22 May 2020 - 02:27 AM

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Better option make LT's always bottom tier again...

Solves a lot of problems...

-tomatoes wont be driving them no more.

-And they have 1 job and that is spot! like it was...

 



Balc0ra #7 Posted 22 May 2020 - 03:54 AM

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Again... no need to confuse steve more. Both wheels and tracked lights share the same bonuses etc, inc camo on the move and module damage XP on HTs. And even share the same role. Thus they are kept under the same class. No need to have 2 scout classes, just because one has wheels tbh. Steve has enough issues aiming as is.

Edited by Balc0ra, 22 May 2020 - 03:55 AM.


Frostilicus #8 Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:28 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 22 May 2020 - 02:54 AM, said:

Again... no need to confuse steve more. Both wheels and tracked lights share the same bonuses etc, inc camo on the move and module damage XP on HTs. And even share the same role. Thus they are kept under the same class. No need to have 2 scout classes, just because one has wheels tbh. Steve has enough issues aiming as is.

 

Not even for Steve confusion factor, just another bad idea :)



saxsan4 #9 Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:29 AM

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View PostOrkbert, on 21 May 2020 - 06:20 AM, said:

 

So every military in the world has gotten it wrong? Now that's something...


is a car a tank? no

03:30 Added after 0 minute

View PostFrostilicus, on 22 May 2020 - 03:28 AM, said:

 

Not even for Steve confusion factor, just another bad idea :)


yet every other game separates armoured cars and tanks



Nebuched #10 Posted 22 May 2020 - 05:02 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 21 May 2020 - 04:14 AM, said:

Hello,

 

Here me out

 

Light tanks at the moment include armoured cars which are not tanks at all. It was like if arty was included in TDs as one class. Really armoured cars should be their own class, with a circle as the icon and balanced like arty. max 3 per side and if one team has armoured cars, so should the other. this will allow light tanks to be balanced with each other again and be more historically accurate as all other games and in real life armoured cars are not considered light tanks but their own class 

This is a good plan and players making fun of it are those who want to keep their unfair advantage in WV's.

Shameful and very transparent.

I have 1(one) light in my garage and I don't plan on any other EVER because of how tracked lights are set against those abominations who turn on a dime at 80 km/ph like g-forces overlook them. 

04:08 Added after 5 minute

View PostBalc0ra, on 22 May 2020 - 03:54 AM, said:

Again... no need to confuse steve more. Both wheels and tracked lights share the same bonuses etc, inc camo on the move and module damage XP on HTs. And even share the same role. Thus they are kept under the same class. No need to have 2 scout classes, just because one has wheels tbh. Steve has enough issues aiming as is.

WV's aren't passive spotters, fast mediums can be spotters too. Roles are overlapping or only half. Youre bullshitting. How many wheeled tumors do you have in your garage ? Also in all other cases you would argue against dumbing down the game and balancing it only around "Steve", that mythical strawman who doesnt understand even a little of the game. 


Edited by Nebuched, 22 May 2020 - 05:10 AM.


Stig_Stigma #11 Posted 22 May 2020 - 07:18 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 21 May 2020 - 04:14 AM, said:

Hello,

 

Here me out

 

Light tanks at the moment include armoured cars which are not tanks at all. It was like if arty was included in TDs as one class. Really armoured cars should be their own class, with a circle as the icon and balanced like arty. max 3 per side and if one team has armoured cars, so should the other. this will allow light tanks to be balanced with each other again and be more historically accurate as all other games and in real life armoured cars are not considered light tanks but their own class 

 

Both classes camp and are played by clickers, they're boring



Blubba #12 Posted 22 May 2020 - 11:22 AM

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View PostKooallu, on 21 May 2020 - 05:55 AM, said:

 

i have never seen that other team dont have wheeled light, there is allways ebr at both sides, but i have seen that other team has arty and enemy team dont have :)


I have. Three EBRs vs a WZ132, ELC 90 and an M41 on Highway. Suffice to say, it was a whitewash with the EBRs running rampant.

I haven't seen unbalanced arty numbers in a loooong time. My personal opinion on that is if arty have a smaller impact on the battle result (and it's my view they do), then I'd rather have unbalanced arty numbers than lights vs wheeled.

View PostOrkbert, on 21 May 2020 - 06:20 AM, said:

 

So every military in the world has gotten it wrong? Now that's something...


I am interested in that though. So every military in the world classify armoured cars as tanks?

Not AFVs or armoured cars?

You learn a new thing every day sir. Thank you.



Galan7891 #13 Posted 22 May 2020 - 02:07 PM

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View PostNebuched, on 22 May 2020 - 05:02 AM, said:

This is a good plan and players making fun of it are those who want to keep their unfair advantage in WV's.

Shameful and very transparent.

I have 1(one) light in my garage and I don't plan on any other EVER because of how tracked lights are set against those abominations who turn on a dime at 80 km/ph like g-forces overlook them. 

04:08 Added after 5 minute

WV's aren't passive spotters, fast mediums can be spotters too. Roles are overlapping or only half. Youre bullshitting. How many wheeled tumors do you have in your garage ? Also in all other cases you would argue against dumbing down the game and balancing it only around "Steve", that mythical strawman who doesnt understand even a little of the game. 


There is only 1 line of WVs currently and so far the information we have suggests the second line will not be LTs but wheeled MTs.So changing the MM for just 1 line is not worth it.Also if you have 1 LT after 5 years or so of playing the WVs have little impact on wether you will play LTs.

And half the tracked LTs are not supposed to be passive spotters either.They may be able to perform as such but they werent intended to play that way.

 

View PostBlubba, on 22 May 2020 - 11:22 AM, said:


I have. Three EBRs vs a WZ132, ELC 90 and an M41 on Highway. Suffice to say, it was a whitewash with the EBRs running rampant.

I haven't seen unbalanced arty numbers in a loooong time. My personal opinion on that is if arty have a smaller impact on the battle result (and it's my view they do), then I'd rather have unbalanced arty numbers than lights vs wheeled.

 


And there are also examples of teams that had 2-3 EBRs loosing by a landside...

View PostBlubba, on 22 May 2020 - 11:22 AM, said:

 


I am interested in that though. So every military in the world classify armoured cars as tanks?

Not AFVs or armoured cars?

You learn a new thing every day sir. Thank you.

That would depend on the traditions and designations of each military.As is the case with pretty much every other vehicle in multiple armys in history...



Nebuched #14 Posted 22 May 2020 - 03:49 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 22 May 2020 - 02:07 PM, said:

 

And there are also examples of teams that had 2-3 EBRs loosing by a landside...

This is odd, the EBR drivers must either being very drunk or, thinking they are invincible, took too many risks even for a WV...



Galan7891 #15 Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:02 PM

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View PostNebuched, on 22 May 2020 - 03:49 PM, said:

This is odd, the EBR drivers must either being very drunk or, thinking they are invincible, took too many risks even for a WV...


Or perhaps their teams were bad?Or perhaps their enemies were better?

And why is it that odd?The EBR according to devs isnt even the "best" LT by damage done iirc...



Fawlty_Geering #16 Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:46 PM

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View PostStronkiTonki, on 21 May 2020 - 06:39 AM, said:


 

 

Oh, and the AMX 40 should be reclassed with a duck icon.

 



Nebuched #17 Posted 22 May 2020 - 05:26 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 22 May 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:


Or perhaps their teams were bad?Or perhaps their enemies were better?

And why is it that odd?The EBR according to devs isnt even the "best" LT by damage done iirc...

 

Random battle stats or FL/Grand Battle also ?



Blubba #18 Posted 22 May 2020 - 08:00 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 22 May 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

And there are also examples of teams that had 2-3 EBRs loosing by a landside...

Not sure about the relevance of that statement when considering numbers of vehicle types per team....still being constructive I note...

 

Pt.II

View PostGalan7891, on 22 May 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

That would depend on the traditions and designations of each military.As is the case with pretty much every other vehicle in multiple armys in history...

 

The original statement I referred to clearly states every military. I'll help you here and reference the pertinent points...

View Postsaxsan4, on 21 May 2020 - 03:14 AM, said:

Light tanks at the moment include armoured cars which are not tanks at all.

 

View PostOrkbert, on 21 May 2020 - 06:20 AM, said:

So every military in the world has gotten it wrong? Now that's something...

If you guys ever get to a definitive answer, let me know. Factual and/or constructive stuff is always interesting to me.

 






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