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Gold Quota..?

gold ammo ammo rebalance gold rounds

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Poll: Opinion poll about WoT shells (50 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Do you think HE is underused?

  1. Yes (19 votes [37.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.25%

  2. No (32 votes [62.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.75%

Would you like to keep the gold pen while still keeping it's original damage values?

  1. Yes (25 votes [49.02%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.02%

  2. No (26 votes [50.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.98%

Do you think the gold quota could fix the ammo balance?

  1. Yes (17 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. No (34 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

Vote Hide poll

_Marcvs_ #1 Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:22 PM

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Hello.

 

I'd like to start by making some stuff clear:

-I'm not a great player. I literally have ups and downs in-game, where I can just do crazy well one day, and do horibbly the very next day.

-I'm generally bursting out of anger when people are just doing stupid things. I'm often angry. However note that i'm aware of the games where I play like a donkey, and I generally stop playing WoT if it continues over a couple of games.

 

With that said, i'd like to present you a way to rebalance the game without changing the damage done by specialty rounds.

 

It's not a way to directly balance shell stats, but a way to restrain trigger-happy players with gold ammo. (it could possibly lead to the same results though)

 

I have a steady flow of games where i'm just getting spammed by toptiers who are shooting APCR/HEAT/HE. I'm not talking about the end of a game, where they don't wanna take any risks, i'm talking about the first minutes of the game. What can a lower tier do against a toptier who has decided to load gold right from the start?

 

Since the pen of gold rounds are skyrocketing at higher tiers, here is my point: why leting players put all the premium ammo they want in their tanks if they can pen me without going overkill?

(You think I can do something VS a bunch of toptiers spreading gold rounds on my 53TP?)

 

So what could change if a gold ammo quota is implemented?

-If executed, it would restrain you from adding tons of goldies in your tank. Furthermore, the higher tier you are, the least you'll be able to shoot them. You'll need to play a lot more strategically.

-Since lower tiers are less affected by the quota, they could shoot more premium, which is nice since they generally have lower pen.

 

Q:Okay, but what if I used all of my gold rounds and i'm still against tough opponents?

A: It means you either missed too many shots, either you're not playing propely. A medium tank isn't supposed to brawl against a heavy tank. Same goes for playing a TD: have you considered relocating, or using HE?

 

With that, the goldie would only be used if the player knows the risks he's taking, by potentially wasting one shell he might need later, in a situation where the silvies wouldn't cut it.

I'd also like to point out that HE is underrated and not a lot of players are thinking about loading them to stall or even defeat a foe.

 

I'l curious about your opinion, so here is a poll with 3 questions.

Thank you for reading this, have a good Day/Night.


Edited by _Marcvs_, 21 May 2020 - 08:23 PM.


crnakoza #2 Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:34 PM

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Premium ammo quota is not entirely horrible idea. And it could introduce another parameter to balance tanks against. The quota could vary per tank.



The_Naa #3 Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:39 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 21 May 2020 - 08:22 PM, said:

Hello.

 

Heyo!

Welcome to the forums. :)

 

Block Quote

 

-If executed, it would restrain you from adding tons of goldies in your tank. Furthermore, the higher tier you are, the least you'll be able to shoot them. You'll need to play a lot more strategically.

-Since lower tiers are less affected by the quota, they could shoot more premium, which is nice since they generally have lower pen.

 

its not a horrible idea to add a limit to amount Gold ammo you can carry. but it can not be a flat % of your ammo. it should be done tank by tank taking into consideration their tier, class, gun, armour and how much ammo it can carry.

 

Block Quote

 A medium tank isn't supposed to brawl against a heavy tank. Same goes for playing a TD: have you considered relocating

 

this is my main problem when a nerf to gold ammo is being asked for.

what should i do then? if i am the last tank in a medium lets say WZ-120 VS an OBJ.279e? if i can shoot gold i have no way to win the game because he basically has god mode on if cant shoot gold.

if you take away the ability to shoot gold from tank classes then its unfair to me and to other tank classes that have to fight against heavy tanks with god like armour.

 

Block Quote

 I'd also like to point out that HE is underrated and not a lot of players are thinking about loading them to stall or even defeat a foe.

 

it all depends on the tank, gun, amount ammo it can carry and whos driving it.

me? i use HE when the gun can do damage reliably with HE and does not have to sacrifice much of the ammo storage for it.

i dont use HE on the Panther because the L/100 gun does not benefit from it and it takes too much ammo storage so its useless.

i do use HE on JPE-100 as it can do damage every time with it and usefull when ever i need it.



Joggaman #4 Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:40 PM

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Block Quote

 What can a lower tier do against a toptier who has decided to load gold right from the start?

 

Load gold?

 

Block Quote

 Why letting players put all the premium ammo they want in their tanks if they can pen me without going overkill?

 

If they can pen you anyway, then it doesn't matter if you are hit with gold or standard. Why care?

 



_Marcvs_ #5 Posted 23 May 2020 - 06:49 PM

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View PostJoggaman, on 21 May 2020 - 10:40 PM, said:

 

Load gold?

 

 

If they can pen you anyway, then it doesn't matter if you are hit with gold or standard. Why care?

 

Why the heck would I even load gold from the start if i'm not even sure there was a toptier in front of me? What about top tiers that I can pen without loading the goldie?



_Marcvs_ #6 Posted 23 May 2020 - 07:25 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 21 May 2020 - 08:39 PM, said

this is my main problem when a nerf to gold ammo is being asked for.

what should i do then? if i am the last tank in a medium lets say WZ-120 VS an OBJ.279e? if i can shoot gold i have no way to win the game because he basically has god mode on if cant shoot gold.

if you take away the ability to shoot gold from tank classes then its unfair to me and to other tank classes that have to fight against heavy tanks with god like armour.

Then let me also add a question (this is going nowhere lol): What the heck hapenned to your team for the past ten minutes of the game? An obj 279 (e) is THE opponent kill. It's just like palpatine; he's too dangerous to be left alive.

I know it sounds kinda stupid and unfair, but your team sealed your fate, and that's why all of your teammates (and you) should save your shells for such events.

 



Orkbert #7 Posted 23 May 2020 - 07:32 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 23 May 2020 - 07:25 PM, said:

Then let me also add a question (this is going nowhere lol): What the heck hapenned to your team for the past ten minutes of the game? An obj 279 (e) is THE opponent kill. It's just like palpatine; he's too dangerous to be left alive.

I know it sounds kinda stupid and unfair, but your team sealed your fate, and that's why all of your teammates (and you) should save your shells for such events.

 

Alternatively they could have loaded more premium ammo. this post of yours is a direct contradiction of your opening suggestion to introduce a quota.

 

 

 



The_Naa #8 Posted 23 May 2020 - 07:32 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 23 May 2020 - 07:25 PM, said:

Then let me also add a question (this is going nowhere lol): What the heck hapenned to your team for the past ten minutes of the game? An obj 279 (e) is THE opponent kill. It's just like palpatine; he's too dangerous to be left alive.

I know it sounds kinda stupid and unfair, but your team sealed your fate, and that's why all of your teammates (and you) should save your shells for such events.

 


i do carry gold, every time. at least enough to kill a Maus from full HP if i have to. thats the bare minimum i always carry. Gold ammo for atleast 3000HP. :justwait:



NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 23 May 2020 - 07:41 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 23 May 2020 - 06:49 PM, said:

Why the heck would I even load gold from the start if i'm not even sure there was a toptier in front of me? What about top tiers that I can pen without loading the goldie?

 

If you don't and you bump into something you cannot pen what do you do? Ask him to stay still and give you a chance to reload the correct round before he starts shooting at you so that it is fair?

 

What if you're an auto loader with a 40sec reload? Do you want to discover you should have loaded the gold clip before or after you meet the Maus head on? 



pihip #10 Posted 23 May 2020 - 07:55 PM

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Block Quote

Do you think HE is underused?

 

No, I'd say it's the opposite and HE is used a lot these days. Which is not bad as it's a viable alternative to gold ammo for non-tryhards. Too much high-pen HE is not something I'm crazy about though.

 

Block Quote

Would you like to keep the gold pen while still keeping it's original damage values?

 
Penetration can stay high, but damage should be lower compared to standard ammo.

 

Block Quote

Do you think the gold quota could fix the ammo balance?

 
To an extent. A small enough quota would prevent tryhards from spamming full gold the whole match which would be no small achievement. It would also force players to make strategic use of gold if they want to use it - do I spam it to push a flank, or do I save it in case I end up meeting that Maus on the enemy team?



Kalonianhydra #11 Posted 23 May 2020 - 08:13 PM

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Just remove gold from the game, we don't need it.
Or have players pay gold for it again.

Lycopersicon #12 Posted 23 May 2020 - 08:33 PM

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As per the long-standing tradition: voted all, because I could.

Edited by Lycopersicon, 24 May 2020 - 12:46 PM.


_Marcvs_ #13 Posted 23 May 2020 - 09:40 PM

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View PostJoggaman, on 21 May 2020 - 10:40 PM, said:

 

Load gold?

 

 

If they can pen you anyway, then it doesn't matter if you are hit with gold or standard. Why care?

 


Oops i didn't think straight for a moment. What i'm trying to say is that if they spam gold, my chances to get out alive are even shorter.



_Marcvs_ #14 Posted 23 May 2020 - 09:53 PM

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View PostOrkbert, on 23 May 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

Alternatively they could have loaded more premium ammo. this post of yours is a direct contradiction of your opening suggestion to introduce a quota.

Please explain.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #15 Posted 23 May 2020 - 10:07 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 23 May 2020 - 09:40 PM, said:


Oops i didn't think straight for a moment. What i'm trying to say is that if they spam gold, my chances to get out alive are even shorter.

 

If you have no armour why does it make a difference what they shoot you with if both gold or standard would pen anyway?

If you have heavy armour and they need to fire gold to pen you then if they use gold they made the right choice. 

 

If they have a quota of gold and you have no armour it still doesn't matter what they shoot you with, both will still damage you. Your quota idea changes nothing for you.

 

If they have a quota of gold and you have heavy armour then they will save their gold until they meet you and then you will still get shot with gold. Again your quota idea changes nothing for you. 

 

Do you see the problem? 


Edited by NUKLEAR_SLUG, 23 May 2020 - 10:07 PM.


Balc0ra #16 Posted 23 May 2020 - 10:45 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 21 May 2020 - 08:22 PM, said:

So what could change if a gold ammo quota is implemented?

-If executed, it would restrain you from adding tons of goldies in your tank. Furthermore, the higher tier you are, the least you'll be able to shoot them. You'll need to play a lot more strategically.

-Since lower tiers are less affected by the quota, they could shoot more premium, which is nice since they generally have lower pen.

 

Thing is... that if you have say 5 or 10 rounds, a Type 5 driver facing 5 guns will still only see gold ammo in his damage panel. So for some... I suspect they won't notice much of a difference. Borsig might tho. As if a 50 100 pushes around a corner to see a Borsig when he expected to find a Type 5. Do you think he would fall back to reload and save his clip... or use it?

 

But... I don't always use gold because I need pen. As other ammo types have other benefits. Like my normal ammo having to much pen drop at long range, but my HEAT shell doesn't. Or my AP is a 750 shell velocity, but my gold has 1400m/s. Thus easier to lead vs EBR going 90 km/h at medium range yolo spotting half my team.

 

View Post_Marcvs_, on 21 May 2020 - 08:22 PM, said:

Q:Okay, but what if I used all of my gold rounds and i'm still against tough opponents?

A: It means you either missed too many shots, either you're not playing propely. A medium tank isn't supposed to brawl against a heavy tank. Same goes for playing a TD: have you considered relocating, or using HE?

 

Flanking is not always a luxury you have if your flanking path is covered by hidden guns as you don't own all of the map. Nor are all HT's brawlers. And if your heaviums fail vs a group of super heavies. And the 3 of your with 10% map control and 15 gold rounds between you. Then it might not matter if you never missed your shots. It might not be enough if you can't use view range and flank fire early.

 

Thing is... that reducing gold load etc alone won't fix anything. Or make the game magically better. Tbh you need to find a balance between everything. Not just gold alone. As if armor and power gaps are as they are or have been. Having 5 gold rounds won't help your team much if MM gave their team all the broken tanks. As then it won't matter if you never missed a shot or how properly you play at times.

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 23 May 2020 - 10:47 PM.


Joggaman #17 Posted 23 May 2020 - 10:55 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 23 May 2020 - 11:07 PM, said:

 

If you have no armour why does it make a difference what they shoot you with if both gold or standard would pen anyway?

If you have heavy armour and they need to fire gold to pen you then if they use gold they made the right choice. 

 

If they have a quota of gold and you have no armour it still doesn't matter what they shoot you with, both will still damage you. Your quota idea changes nothing for you.

 

If they have a quota of gold and you have heavy armour then they will save their gold until they meet you and then you will still get shot with gold. Again your quota idea changes nothing for you. 

 

Do you see the problem?

 

And look at that clan-tag!!!:girl:


Edited by Joggaman, 23 May 2020 - 10:57 PM.


General_Jack_D_Ripper #18 Posted 24 May 2020 - 12:10 AM

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I do not know if that would fix anything.

I usually do not have too many premium rounds with me.

But deciding when to use premium and when not to, gives me the opportunity to pritty much always have prem when I need them.

I usually go for tanks HP in gold-round-damage.

It is sufficient.

 

The other game one AMX tank shot my Type 4 and my teammate ST-1 alot with prem ammo, bounced a lot and later on used HE, because he was out of prem ammo.

I think a Gold quota would hurt bad players a lot and good players only a bit.

And some special tech tree tanks would become stock virtually unplayable.



Space_Vato #19 Posted 24 May 2020 - 09:31 AM

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2011: Gold ammo quota suggested. What was also suggested was a diminishing return on profit with premium shells (both XP and Creds).

2012: Gold ammo quota suggested. What was also suggested was a diminishing return on profit with premium shells (both XP and Creds).

2013: Gold ammo quota suggested. What was also suggested was a diminishing return on profit with premium shells (both XP and Creds).

2014: Gold ammo quota suggested. What was also suggested was a diminishing return on profit with premium shells (both XP and Creds).

2015: Gold ammo quota suggested. What was also suggested was a diminishing return on profit with premium shells (both XP and Creds).

Etc.

 

If you pay attention here, you will see some sort of pattern.

Something to keep the balance between prem players and non-prem players is something WG doesn't care about.

Same goes with balanced games.

Balanced prem tanks.

 

WG: ...?    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Space_Vato, 24 May 2020 - 09:31 AM.


ZlatanArKung #20 Posted 24 May 2020 - 10:14 AM

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Premium shells was just a super stupid decision by WG from the start.




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