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The real impact of APCR and HEAT rounds in WOT

apcr; heat; rounds ammo

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Private_Miros #21 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:08 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 28 May 2020 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Because if it gets spammed at a CDC, it also gets spammed at tanks which would normally (potentially) bounce the standard ammunition.

It's not about what specific vehicle he is driving at this point in time, it's about the rampant goldspam we see nowadays in this game which impacts all tanks.

 

Cobra 6

 

His thread is explicitly not about tanks with armor that would otherwise not penetrate getting hit!

 

(On a side note, rampant goldspam is BS when looking at my hitlogs. And while I believe a full prammo and armor /powercreep rebalance is in order, I am completely neutral about premium ammo itself. I never saw the issue. Armor works extremely will regardless of it - not counting the wanting to rolfstomp over lower tiers and expecting to do so unpunished.)



Mimos_A #22 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:12 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 28 May 2020 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

Because if it gets spammed at a CDC, it also gets spammed at tanks which would normally (potentially) bounce the standard ammunition.

It's not about what specific vehicle he is driving at this point in time, it's about the rampant goldspam we see nowadays in this game which impacts all tanks.

 

Cobra 6

 

Every time I drive something with armour, the HE spam frustrates me a lot more than the prem.



Pedro_Agnus #23 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:13 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 28 May 2020 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Because if it gets spammed at a CDC, it also gets spammed at tanks which would normally (potentially) bounce the standard ammunition.

It's not about what specific vehicle he is driving at this point in time, it's about the rampant goldspam we see nowadays in this game which impacts all tanks.

 

Cobra 6

Finally... Someone have brains around here!



Unicorn_of_Steel #24 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:13 PM

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I absolutely hate it that everytime i drive something with workable armor, i bounce 1 or 2 shots and after that it's only gold being fired. Taking out most well armored tanks using gold does not require skill at all and personally i don't see the fun in that. Personally i carry and use little or no gold but try to find another solution to take my opponent out of the battle. If this is what OP means, i agree. 

 

The example of getting killed by gold in a CDC is not the best. Since normal ammo would have killed the CDC too, the only negative consequence of the gold use is the ammo bill of the opponent. 

 

OP, if you hate gold spam just play lightly armored tanks. I don't give the behind of a small rodent about being killed with gold in my AMX 13-75, WZ 131 or Strv. 74. since everything and its little sister can penetrate those. Believe me, for me that worked miracles in terms of having fun. 

 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #25 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:24 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 02:13 PM, said:

Finally... Someone have brains around here!

 

Ah, my mistake. I thought this was a discussion forum. I hadn't realised you only came here to have people agree with everything you say.



shikaka9 #26 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:28 PM

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How to fix special ammo?

 

Remove it from a game. Add it's penetration value to Standard ammo. Done. :honoring: :teethhappy:

 

Its cheap, it's for everyone. Now you can blame only yourself.



Mimos_A #27 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:31 PM

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View PostUnicorn_of_Steel, on 28 May 2020 - 02:13 PM, said:

I absolutely hate it that everytime i drive something with workable armor, i bounce 1 or 2 shots and after that it's only gold being fired. Taking out most well armored tanks using gold does not require skill at all and personally i don't see the fun in that. Personally i carry and use little or no gold but try to find another solution to take my opponent out of the battle. If this is what OP means, i agree. 

 

The example of getting killed by gold in a CDC is not the best. Since normal ammo would have killed the CDC too, the only negative consequence of the gold use is the ammo bill of the opponent. 

 

OP, if you hate gold spam just play lightly armored tanks. I don't give the behind of a small rodent about being killed with gold in my AMX 13-75, WZ 131 or Strv. 74. since everything and its little sister can penetrate those. Believe me, for me that worked miracles in terms of having fun. 

 

 

Most armoured tanks are fine against prem spam. When positioned well, if they can't pen you with standard, they're pretty unlikely to pen you with prem.

 

Don't get me wrong, I carry very few prem rounds in all my tanks, hardly ever fire them, and I'm not a fan of people who double tap the 2 key at the sight of something with armour, but most of the time I'm penned with prem ammo I would've been either penned anyway, or I can't blame the opposition because it's literally the only chance they have of penning me and they'd be stupid not to.

 

I'd love to see a proper thought out prem-rework (and the associated armour/weakspot rework), but it's hardly the biggest issue plaguing the game.


Edited by Mimos_A, 28 May 2020 - 02:34 PM.


wsatnutter #28 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:38 PM

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at the end of the day this is a cry whine about prem ammo and OP that aint changing anytime soon

Pedro_Agnus #29 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:41 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 28 May 2020 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

Ah, my mistake. I thought this was a discussion forum. I hadn't realised you only came here to have people agree with everything you say.

Nuklear..... Among those who are around the forum.... This community knows very well your "tone"! This will be the only reply you'll get from me...
Plus, I'm not expecting all to agree or disagree.... But I expect everyone here to have the brains to be able to get whats the topic about and not.... what I'm driving, my avg damaged and so on...! That's basic! If you don't get that..... go back to my first sentence and that's all!



JocMeister #30 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:42 PM

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View PostUnicorn_of_Steel, on 28 May 2020 - 02:13 PM, said:

I absolutely hate it that everytime i drive something with workable armor, i bounce 1 or 2 shots and after that it's only gold being fired. Taking out most well armored tanks using gold does not require skill at all and personally i don't see the fun in that. Personally i carry and use little or no gold but try to find another solution to take my opponent out of the battle. If this is what OP means, i agree. 

 

So playing well armored tanks should be even easier then it now? Since by your reasoning the currently most dominant class in the game should be even harder to kill?

 



BravelyRanAway #31 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:45 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 28 May 2020 - 12:11 PM, said:

So, how exactly did getting hit with premium rounds in your CDC ruin your game experience?

I don't think you fully understand.

The guy who shot him is now broke.......it's not fair!:hiding:



Kdingo #32 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:50 PM

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This topic reads best while listening to this:

Spoiler

 



Mimos_A #33 Posted 28 May 2020 - 02:52 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 02:41 PM, said:

Nuklear..... Among those who are around the forum.... This community knows very well your "tone"! This will be the only reply you'll get from me...
Plus, I'm not expecting all to agree or disagree.... But I expect everyone here to have the brains to be able to get whats the topic about and not.... what I'm driving, my avg damaged and so on...! That's basic! If you don't get that..... go back to my first sentence and that's all!

 

It's very clear what you think. Then you decided to illustrate that using a situation in which it wasn't relevant and did not provide any further context to describe the situation, making the whole point rather moot. If anything, your opponent gave you an advantage in the situation in your opening point.

 

If you want to make your point, make your point. If you want to discuss something, discuss something. If you want to ponder a possible solution, bring it on. But your opening post makes no clear case whatsoever, except that you have displayed someone who has a terrible sense of ammo choice.


Edited by Mimos_A, 28 May 2020 - 02:58 PM.


Balc0ra #34 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:03 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 01:23 PM, said:

That's a perspective of a player who always use APCR! ....
I tell you this: Lansen was shoting APCR right? At my CDC.... Wasn't he able to pen me using normal rounds? DEFINITELY YES! Why spaming "special rounds" on a paper tank? Just because he can right? Sure... Not the point! The point is... Was not even needed!!!!
Was just an example how players use APCR no matter what! No skill... No aim... Nothing!

Get it? :ohmy:

 

If you had a chance to bounce... sure. If he will pen you regardless, would you be less mad if he fired HE at you instead?

 

Thing is... that most press 2 even if they don't need to for other factors then pen. Even vs a CDC or a Borsig. I do it vs wheels even. Is it because I lack pen? No, it's because the 2nd shell type has a benefit my normal one doesn't have.... shell velocity. I have zero issues changing to APCR if my normal ammo has half the shell speed so I don't have to lead with all of the screen. I even press 2 vs some weaker long-range targets if I have HEAT. Why? Pen loss, as HEAT does not have any. Even if APRC is the main ammo type, it's not always the best suited to use. And that's the issue WOT has... it wants you to use different ammo types for different situations, but one of the 3 you have is always the one you should not use according to players. As pen is not the only factor for what shell to use. Even if one has more pen, it doesn't mean it will pen the target more easily. As HEAT vs AP on spaced armor etc.

 

Heck I get smack for using gold ammo on my SU-100Y vs paper targets. It has less pen, so I actually have to aim more so than with AP vs most targets. It just has more alpha. But still, people rage at me for using it. Don't matter what the shell does, or even if it's the worst one to use vs a target. It's gold that hit you, that all that matters. Even if his normal ammo would have been more effective.

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 28 May 2020 - 03:06 PM.


saurilian #35 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:07 PM

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View PostMarlekin, on 28 May 2020 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

Borrasque has apcr as standard ammo tho. Just saying. 

 

[edited], got it to 89% MoE just with standard shells. People just suck in this tank and pre-load gold to compensate that.



Search_Warrant #36 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:11 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 28 May 2020 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Because if it gets spammed at a CDC, it also gets spammed at tanks which would normally (potentially) bounce the standard ammunition.

It's not about what specific vehicle he is driving at this point in time, it's about the rampant goldspam we see nowadays in this game which impacts all tanks.

 

Cobra 6


WG know full well gold spam is overused, they just put there "its only 5%" sign up and hope people go away.

 

Only WG could made a shell type 100% more effective than standard ammo and make it cost more credits for the sake of "balance"



Alpharius #37 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:27 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 01:23 PM, said:

That's a perspective of a player who always use APCR! ....
I tell you this: Lansen was shoting APCR right? At my CDC.... Wasn't he able to pen me using normal rounds? DEFINITELY YES! Why spaming "special rounds" on a paper tank? Just because he can right? Sure... Not the point! The point is... Was not even needed!!!!
Was just an example how players use APCR no matter what! No skill... No aim... Nothing!

Get it? :ohmy:

Maybe he just forgot to switch to regular ammo after firing at something super heavy. Maybe he was in panic. Who knows. He wasted some credits for those shells, thats all. 



TungstenHitman #38 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:40 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 28 May 2020 - 12:11 PM, said:

So, how exactly did getting hit with premium rounds in your CDC ruin your game experience?

 

This.

 

It's one thing for, lets say an E100 player that takes on the slow heavy armor zero camo drawbacks to complain about getting spammed by gold but a CDC? He's actually LUCKY to be shot by APCR or HEAT and that the other player didn't load up with HE on his CDC and crack him for far more damage along with dead crew and bust tank modules.

 

View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

 

I can only imagine they believe covid-19 started by using normal rounds.... But in my opinion the real "pandemic" are the special rounds!
(Folks, this is just an analogy! Dont get mad!)
 

 

@OP To be fair though it's a particularly stupid and insensitive analogy so stop comparing a pandemic disease that's killed and is still killing a lot of ppl to your stupid butthurt pew pew tank game problems ok? It's not ANYTHING comparable.  

 

View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

 

Well.... Good battles everyone.

 

Apparently not, because we can't have "good battles everyone" without some outplayed butthurt player hitting the forum complaining that their paper tank got shot with premium ammo and it "Has to stop!!" and how it's "Out of hand now!!" when we've been over this topic so many times that imho the next player should actually get a forum ban. 

 

Bottom line is, a player can shoot whatever the F they want to shoot, same as you and me. There's a plethora of reasons a player may happen to be shooting premium ammo outside of just being a gold spammer and you still can't spam full gold without losing huge amounts of credits so if a player is doing that then he must be making credits to do that some other non-gold spamming way in between or on some other game mode. Even a premium tank with a premium account, you can't spam gold for the whole battle and not lose a lot of credits. 

 

I believe there's only a small amount of players that are actually full time gold spammers but like I said, they have to be doing some non-gold spamming gameplay with something else to earn the credits to cover it and a player just cant buy a premium tank and account and shoot full gold they will still always lose credits win lose or draw. Other reason which have been covered a million times is that they may have been shooting an OP as F tank, of which the game is rank with, was obviously shooting gold at the time and then you came noobing out of nowhere where your CDC and in the heat of battle failed to change the ammo type. Other reasons are anything from a slow reloading gun i.e. If I'm hull down fighting heavy armor with my T30 and currently have a premium ammo selected, then if another tank, regardless of it being made of paper, comes around at me he is gonna eat whatever shell I currently have loaded. I'm sure he's not going to stop and wait for me to take out that shell and reload to a much more preferred HE for this tank to be shot with, he will the next time I am loaded, but in the immediate moment he is going to eat whatever I have loaded in the gun barrel, be it standard ammo or otherwise. Another thing that can happen is late in the battle some tanks have simply used up all their standard ammo and have no choice but to use their premium. Some tanks have really small ammo storage, others have the luxury of being able to carry lots. So it's not always as it seems but at least have the sense not to cry illogically when you are playing a paper tank anyway and like I said, be thankful it wasn't HE instead.



Cobra6 #39 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:48 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 28 May 2020 - 01:08 PM, said:

 

His thread is explicitly not about tanks with armor that would otherwise not penetrate getting hit!

 

(On a side note, rampant goldspam is BS when looking at my hitlogs. And while I believe a full prammo and armor /powercreep rebalance is in order, I am completely neutral about premium ammo itself. I never saw the issue. Armor works extremely will regardless of it - not counting the wanting to rolfstomp over lower tiers and expecting to do so unpunished.)

 

Well, this opening sentence is about a phenomena rather then then armor:

"Sure, maybe there's a topic (which I wasn't able to find) around this matter but what you feel about the current APCR and HEAT rounds in WOT? I find myself in battles (mainly in TIer VIII & X) where the only thing I see are.... this type of ammo."

 

Armor works well regardless of it since most armor is inflated to account for premium ammo spam now.

As a tool gold ammo has become rather compulsory for the majority of players nowadays which is a rather bad direction to go in, balance wise.

 

 

View PostMimos_A, on 28 May 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

 

Every time I drive something with armour, the HE spam frustrates me a lot more than the prem.

 

Well if you have no viable frontal weakspots and an enemy has no money to shoot premium ammo, what do you expect? At least you are not taking full damage each hit like with premium ammo.

 

Cobra 6



The_Naa #40 Posted 28 May 2020 - 03:48 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 28 May 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:

 

 The point here is, like the Lansen!!!!!, players load APCR no matter what they face or the tanks layout on the enemy side...

 

its the ''weapon pull'' if this ammo is more effective than this ammo, players will use it.

why?

because we want to win. i will throw all my ''Special ammo'' Gold at the enemy if i want/need to win.

im not going to spare few extra credits just because ''oh wait i dont need this high pen for that tank, please wait while i reload my gun'' even douple clicking takes that few extra milliseconds to do and that matters.

even the shell velocity matters. i dont want the enemy get any chances to get the ''Eye for an eye'' award. if the shell connects faster it means he has that few frames less to fire his gun that means i win and you lose, good day sir.

HEAT has the added benefit of ignoring armour angling, so you cant pull a weird angle against my gun to hope i bounce, nah i load HEAT cuz that has higer chance to ignore your armour angling and kill you so there for i win and you lose, good day sir.

if i know you are paper and i have normal/gold HE or HESH i will load that to penetrate your tank and absolutley destroy you there for i win and you lose, good day sir.

AP has no real benefits to it so its not even worth using all the time, only if you have HEAT or HE and you need to shoot trough a wall or a car you need AP to connect, but other than that its useless.
i will not throw away my chances of winning just because i did not want to spend few credits to kill you better.

spamming gold is tryharding and its good, i wish more people would do that because i dont want to lose a game because my team mate was too cheap to shoot Gold to win that engagement.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by The_Naa, 28 May 2020 - 08:41 PM.





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