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Heavy/Slow tanks are out of META.


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The_Naa #1 Posted 28 May 2020 - 05:44 PM

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Heyo :)

 

well i just had a game that imo clearly shows that Heavy tanks / other slow moving tanks have been thrown out of Meta.

well in open maps at least, haven seen much change in small maps. well expect in mines perhaps.

Which in my opinion is not that bad, as i really dont like Heavy tanks. (well at least to play against them. :P)

http://wotreplays.eu...81fe6052c0c882f

 

Armour does not matter because Gold ammo, being slow is bad as you get out flanked and most heavy tanks dont have autoloader to be that effective.

a heavy tank that could survive this meta change needs to have REALLY good armour to survive Gold ammo, fast enough to not get Rekt by faster tanks and have italian style autoloader to be effective against progettos and such.

 

but this is where i see the game is going, and by my prediction we should see a drop in heavy tanks/slow tanks per game.

i doubt they will completely disappear but at least they are getting less common. :popcorn:



Cuck0osNest #2 Posted 28 May 2020 - 05:53 PM

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Isnt it what you wished for when you was buying premium account,shot gold rounds and had putting paytown8 signature?

Edited by Cuck0osNest, 28 May 2020 - 05:55 PM.


The_Naa #3 Posted 28 May 2020 - 05:58 PM

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View PostCuck0osNest, on 28 May 2020 - 05:53 PM, said:

Isnt it what you wished for when you was buying premium account,shot gold rounds and had putting paytown8 signature?



24doom24 #4 Posted 28 May 2020 - 05:58 PM

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Triple arty has completely stopped me from playing heavies and other slow tanks, haven't touched my premium russian heavies in ages. Heaviums are an exception since they can relocate much better. 

Gruff_ #5 Posted 28 May 2020 - 06:00 PM

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Different tank classes perform better on different maps, that's ok.

mikem70 #6 Posted 28 May 2020 - 06:25 PM

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I'm still enjoying my T95, have to give some thought about where you go on the map and if you do end up in a potato team, you need to realise this fairly soon so you can get yo phat [edited]into a decent cranny (snigger) and farm some damage before your eventual demise. 

WindSplitter1 #7 Posted 28 May 2020 - 06:48 PM

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I disagree vehemently.

The meta is armour and alpha (HTs and TDs), which there are plenty in the queue.

 

In open maps, obviously, mobile vehicles will get to the goods faster but we can only control that in Frontline.

In the wasteland that are randoms, it certainly isn't the case.

 



Supakadai #8 Posted 28 May 2020 - 07:33 PM

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Psssst, wanna hear a secret? It has been a very well known issue for at least half a decade. And just like with all the other very well known, many years old issues, WG doesn't care the slightest bit. Never did, never will.

StronkiTonki #9 Posted 28 May 2020 - 07:44 PM

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It's out of meta because of all the other heavies that actually have speed.

So before someone says "buff the slow tanks' speed", a better solution would be to nerf the speed of a lot of the fast heavies.

 

Only very few slow tanks still are kinda playable, like the Maus and T95. And this is only because they have godlike armor, when used properly. But not all slow tanks have that feature. And if they had, it would break the game in a different way.

I just miss the times where heavies all had their unique viable methods of using armor. Where any kind of heavy would have different focuses on armor and other stats, be it going hulldown and having gun depression, to being a sidescraper, to having allround decent armor and having more reliable gun stats. All tanks just had a different playstyle, and they just worked.

 

And now everything is just dominated by the stupid hulldown meta with fast Russian tanks.



The_Naa #10 Posted 28 May 2020 - 07:48 PM

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View PostStronkiTonki, on 28 May 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

It's They are* out of meta because of all the other heavies that actually have speed.

So before someone says "buff the slow tanks' speed", a better solution would be to nerf the speed of a lot of the fast heavies.

 

 

*i was not just talking about the AMX 50 120, but heavy tanks in general. :girl:


Edited by The_Naa, 28 May 2020 - 07:50 PM.


Kdingo #11 Posted 28 May 2020 - 08:02 PM

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For most really good players heavies, specially the slow ones, phased out of random meta like years ago.

You just aren't versatile enough, not fast enough to take positions, unable to shift flanks.

Also slow tanks force you to take engagements as they come, you run into a lemming train = gg.

Then there are the open map arty issues where you pretty much end up spotted all the time, that is if you want to play active, and get crapped on again and again without being able to do anything about it.

Prokorovka with 3 arties per side on high tier is the best way to discourage someone to play heavies at all.

 

Prem ammo was never an issue for me in heavies, but the things mentioned above just made heavies horrible unappealing.



StronkiTonki #12 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:02 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 28 May 2020 - 06:48 PM, said:

 

*i was not just talking about the AMX 50 120, but heavy tanks in general. :girl:

 

I referred to "it" as the concept of slow heavies in general. Wasn't referring to the 50 120, which I even consider a fast heavy, not a slow one.



TankkiPoju #13 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:15 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 28 May 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

For most really good players heavies, specially the slow ones, phased out of random meta like years ago.

You just aren't versatile enough, not fast enough to take positions, unable to shift flanks.

 

Sure, but still in 2020 for mediocre or average players, it is still far easier to influence games with heavily armored tanks. It's because they can take hits without dying immediately.

 

 

 



_Marcvs_ #14 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:15 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 28 May 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

Heyo :)

Hullo.

View PostThe_Naa, on 28 May 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

Armour does not matter because Gold ammo (1) , being slow is bad as you get out flanked and most heavy tanks dont have autoloader to be that effective.(2)

a heavy tank that could survive this meta change needs to have REALLY good armour to survive Gold ammo, fast enough to not get Rekt by faster tanks and have italian style autoloader to be effective against progettos and such. (3)

 

but this is where i see the game is going, and by my prediction we should see a drop in heavy tanks/slow tanks per game. (4)

i doubt they will completely disappear but at least they are getting less common. :popcorn:

(1) Well, having armor is like bringing alcohol to a party: you don't need it for havin' fun... But it sure helps.

(2) I don't see the need to have an autoloader on every heavy tank I have, and it doesn't make me less effective. Okay, damage wise, I don't have the devastating burst damag, but I don't have to wait a century for my gun to be ready. Furthermore, I can decide to change ammo pretty quickly without having to wait another century. 

(3) It's called balance dude, welcome to online pvp games. Take a seat. I think I know what you mean, but the discussion isn't about OP Meds, it's about heavies... isn't it?

(4) Yes, I definitely agree. Sadly for slower tanks, mobility is key in this game. You can always try to predict some stuff in your superheavy, but the mobility of your opponents will always make it a lot more hazier.  Not only that, but a lone superheavy is pretty much deadmeat.

 

Even you point out you don't like playing heavies, you're not making anything better XD

Heavy are still pretty fun to play doe, especially with workable allies (okay that's not everyday you encounter some lol).

 

Never played the 50 120, but my memories from the 50 100 aren't good ones. It's just a bulky medium with no armor whatsoever.

Maybe this branch needs buffs? I dunno.

 

 

 


Edited by _Marcvs_, 28 May 2020 - 09:32 PM.


_Marcvs_ #15 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:26 PM

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View PostStronkiTonki, on 28 May 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

It's out of meta because of all the other heavies that actually have speed.

So before someone says "buff the slow tanks' speed", a better solution would be to nerf the speed of a lot of the fast heavies.

You better start giving names :B... because I can't really put my finger on a heavy I judge too fast. The only one I think I have (WZ111-4) feels pretty balanced, since it's virtually naked without it's gun or it's mobility.


Edited by _Marcvs_, 29 May 2020 - 12:18 PM.


no_skill_bob #16 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:27 PM

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sure, thats exactly why you see so many paper tanks around.

Dagochilli #17 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:35 PM

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View PostThe_Naa, on 28 May 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

Heyo :)

 

well i just had a game that imo clearly shows that Heavy tanks / other slow moving tanks have been thrown out of Meta.

well in open maps at least, haven seen much change in small maps. well expect in mines perhaps.

Which in my opinion is not that bad, as i really dont like Heavy tanks. (well at least to play against them. :P)

http://wotreplays.eu...81fe6052c0c882f

 

Armour does not matter because Gold ammo, being slow is bad as you get out flanked and most heavy tanks dont have autoloader to be that effective.

a heavy tank that could survive this meta change needs to have REALLY good armour to survive Gold ammo, fast enough to not get Rekt by faster tanks and have italian style autoloader to be effective against progettos and such.

 

but this is where i see the game is going, and by my prediction we should see a drop in heavy tanks/slow tanks per game.

i doubt they will completely disappear but at least they are getting less common. :popcorn:

In the Tier 5-7 is like this. When you have bad mm its possible that you're the only heavy or slow Td, i learned the hard way, buyed tanks where i rember that they're nice back 2016-18 and turned out that that they're almost imposible to play.

like AT15A or Churchill 1

View PostWindSplitter1, on 28 May 2020 - 07:48 PM, said:

I disagree vehemently.

The meta is armour and alpha (HTs and TDs), which there are plenty in the queue.

 

In open maps, obviously, mobile vehicles will get to the goods faster but we can only control that in Frontline.

In the wasteland that are randoms, it certainly isn't the case.

 

That fits in Tiers8-10



The_Naa #18 Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:53 PM

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View Post_Marcvs_, on 28 May 2020 - 09:15 PM, said:

Hullo.

(1) Well, having armor is like bringing alcohol to a party: you don't need it for havin' fun... But it sure helps.

(2) I don't see the need to have an autoloader on every heavy tank I have, and it doesn't make me less effective. Okay, damage wise, I don't have the devastating burst damag, but I don't have to wait a century for my gun to be ready. Furthermore, I can decide to change ammo pretty quickly without having to wait another century. 

(3) It's called balance dude, welcome to online pvp games. Take a seat. I think I know what you mean, but the discussion isn't about OP Meds, it's about heavies... isn't it?

(4) Yes, I definitely agree. Sadly for slower tanks, mobility is key in this game. You can always try to predict some stuff in your superheavy, but the mobility of your opponents will always make it a lot more hazier.  Not only that, but a lone superheavy is pretty much deadmeat.

 

(5)Even you point out you don't like playing heavies, you're not making anything better XD

(6)Heavy are still pretty fun to play doe, especially with workable allies (okay that's not everyday you encounter some lol).

 

(7)Never played the 50 120, but my memories from the 50 100 aren't good ones. It's just a bulky medium with no armor whatsoever.

Maybe this branch needs buffs? I dunno.

 

1. yes armor is a good thing to have, but if you have lots of it, it usually means you are slow. but if you have next to no armor you are fast. i honestly find the middle spot the best compromize as you are not unpennable so players dont preload Gold so you can get some bounces, but if you are unpennable you will get the gold more often.

2. yes normal loading guns are good in swapping shell types. but the burst is deadly and gives an early advantage while you can go to cover and reload.

3. i know :girl: but apart from the IS-3A we dont have italian style autoloading heavies. and IS-3A is good. 

4. :great:

5. i do play heavies, and i like some of them. like the 110. but i dont like playing AGAINST them.

6. yes they are. :)

7. i've just bought it and i am still stock grinding it. cant say much on how good it actually is. :child:



mystikro #19 Posted 28 May 2020 - 10:13 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 28 May 2020 - 07:48 PM, said:

I disagree vehemently.

The meta is armour and alpha (HTs and TDs), which there are plenty in the queue.

 

In open maps, obviously, mobile vehicles will get to the goods faster but we can only control that in Frontline.

In the wasteland that are randoms, it certainly isn't the case.

 

 

The "heavies with armor are gud" argument is a myth. The only people that are afraid of heavies when they run full gold (as most tier 10 do) are those that auto aim because they got used to the gold being point and click. But with basic knowledge of weakspots gold ammo never fails. And for non soibois, shooting no gold ammo is something that can be done. But only the best of the best, such as SirFoch has enough skill to do without gold ammo, while the majority of wn8 top players are just grifters that spam pay to pen ammo. Fite me brah!



Balc0ra #20 Posted 28 May 2020 - 10:52 PM

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For me, yes and no. As in depending on the map etc. Open maps have always been terrible for sluggers. Even before wheels. But get to the narrow part of the map in time, and some can hold it all day. As how well they do is not dependent on if gold is fired or not. But what gun fires it, and what shell type. As some like the IS-6 won't pen most if you just have a little angle with gold. Less so if you are in a VK. But VK might struggle if the WZ-111 with 250 HEAT appears.

 

But even my T95 don't struggle too much vs mobile targets. Even a slow medium can get around that in the open. But if I know a Progetto etc is close. I don't stray far from a wall or a wreck. If you have something to back up vs, their effect is a bit less severe for me to see them as 100% useless in the current meta. The hull traverse buff most got did help loads.

 

 






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