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Can someone explain me this? (RNG ? )


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Rainbowkiss83 #1 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:27 PM

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So, 50TP has 250 pen on standard rounds, and he used those
T34B has 279 front armor on turretn xcept for cupola (wich he didn't hit, maybe the shot on the extreme right but it could be discussed)
I was facing him, directly, no side armor, nothing at all, just wigglin the girl front and rear.
3 shots, all 3 penned, all from the same tank and he was at the same "altitude". He was not above me.
Am i doin somethin wrong or somethin changed recently on how armor works?
Cuz if u take front armor away from T34 well...i dunno what this tank is good for anymore, just tell me and i'll sell it (no...i won't sell it, she makes good credits even by just standind still)


 

Kdingo #2 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:31 PM

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click on the image to check tanks on tanks.gg yourself.

 

To break it down to you easier. There is an overmatch mechanic if the caliber of your gun in mm exceeds 3x the amount of armor in mm, you will automatically pen regardless of angle.

i.e 40 mm armor gets auto penned regardless of angle by anything bigger then 120mm.

In your case its 38mm roof armor against 130mm gun, so every time he just touches your roof he will autopen.


Edited by Kdingo, 04 June 2020 - 05:41 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #3 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:31 PM

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Look up overmatch mechanics.

Rainbowkiss83 #4 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:41 PM

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That's what i mean, ok, the one on the extreme right could be ok, maybe even the one on the extreme left...but how come the one in the center? Cmon he hitted the front 279! 
Tanksgg says clearly it's a ricochet and the effective armor resuls in 800+ mm -.-

Kdingo #5 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:42 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

That's what i mean, ok, the one on the extreme right could be ok, maybe even the one on the extreme left...but how come the one in the center? Cmon he hitted the front 279! 
Tanksgg says clearly it's a ricochet and the effective armor resuls in 800+ mm -.-


Look at my edit about overmatch mechanic.



Rainbowkiss83 #6 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:49 PM

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Kk i got the the 2 on the sides, i still cannot understand the central one, cuz there my armor is not 3x by his gun
I'm not sayin anythin about cheating or similar, but i don't get if it's RNG or what.
He should have clearly bounced to the moon on that one

tajj7 #7 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:54 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 04:49 PM, said:

Kk i got the the 2 on the sides, i still cannot understand the central one, cuz there my armor is not 3x by his gun
I'm not sayin anythin about cheating or similar, but i don't get if it's RNG or what.
He should have clearly bounced to the moon on that one

 

Just look at the armour penetration visualisation and how far it extends back, its just the way the game works but it stretched to the overmatch zone. 



Rainbowkiss83 #8 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:57 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 June 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

Just look at the armour penetration visualisation and how far it extends back, its just the way the game works but it stretched to the overmatch zone. 


So basically the frontal armour got the ricochet but deviated the shell directly into the soft armor of the turret? :ohmy:



xx984 #9 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:58 PM

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T29/T34/T30 all have roof overmatch for 115mm Calibre guns, Smallest gun that tank can mount is a 122mm, so more than enough to overmatch. 

 

If the gun calibre is 3 times the thickness of the armour, plus one MM in calibre it will always pen no matter the angle (overmatch)

 

thats essentially how it works in short, should be noted HEAT rounds and HE cannot overmatch (Instead HEAT pens up to 85 degrees instead of the usual 70 for an auto bounce) 

 

The entire roof of these tanks are weakspots for tanks with bigish guns 


Edited by xx984, 04 June 2020 - 06:00 PM.


Balc0ra #10 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:58 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

That's what i mean, ok, the one on the extreme right could be ok, maybe even the one on the extreme left...but how come the one in the center? Cmon he hitted the front 279! 
Tanksgg says clearly it's a ricochet and the effective armor resuls in 800+ mm -.-

 

The center hit? Due to his caliber at the center of that hit mark. He can overmatch even at 80 degrees. ricochet is only at the bottom of the hit mark at the top of the mantle.



tajj7 #11 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:01 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 04:57 PM, said:


So basically the frontal armour got the ricochet but deviated the shell directly into the soft armor of the turret? :ohmy:

 

Essentially yes, those 'smears' mean it can basically pen all along there. It's essentially clip the armour it can't pen and then travelling into the overmatch zone. 


Edited by tajj7, 04 June 2020 - 06:02 PM.


Tom_Deekanarry #12 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:18 PM

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I'm amazed the guy hit the place he was aiming 3 times!

Rainbowkiss83 #13 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:18 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 04 June 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

 

The center hit? Due to his caliber at the center of that hit mark. He can overmatch even at 80 degrees. ricochet is only at the bottom of the hit mark at the top of the mantle.



This confuses me more.
It is like  Taijj7 said, that the shell ricocheted on the front armor and then penned on the roof, OR if someones hits you on the border of 2 armor areas it gets a roll for both of those?
Tecnically, if there is a weakspot behind, and a strong armor on the front, the first that recieve the hit should get the roll.
I'm tryin to understand the mechanics.

 

17:19 Added after 0 minute

View PostTom_Deekanarry, on 04 June 2020 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm amazed the guy hit the place he was aiming 3 times!



He was good, i wiggled but the dude was skilled in the art :bush:



Kdingo #14 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:20 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 06:18 PM, said:



This confuses me more.
It is like  Taijj7 said, that the shell ricocheted on the front armor and then penned on the roof, OR if someones hits you on the border of 2 armor areas it gets a roll for both of those?
Tecnically, if there is a weakspot behind, and a strong armor on the front, the first that recieve the hit should get the roll.
I'm tryin to understand the mechanics.

 

17:19 Added after 0 minute



He was good, i wiggled but the dude was skilled in the art :bush:


More like scraped over the strong part of the front end then went into the turret roof cause overmatch.



tajj7 #15 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:24 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 05:18 PM, said:



This confuses me more.
It is like  Taijj7 said, that the shell ricocheted on the front armor and then penned on the roof, OR if someones hits you on the border of 2 armor areas it gets a roll for both of those?
Tecnically, if there is a weakspot behind, and a strong armor on the front, the first that recieve the hit should get the roll.
I'm tryin to understand the mechanics.

 

17:19 Added after 0 minute



He was good, i wiggled but the dude was skilled in the art :bush:

 

I don't think I explained it very well basically if you imagine a circle hitting your tank, the bottom part of the circle might hit the strong turret armour but the top part is going on to hit the weaker armour it will still pen. Hence why I said is sort of 'smears'

 

It's not particularly realistic but its how the game works.

 

it also like when you get shots into a join of two armour plates like the upper and lower plate on an E75 say, technically IRL that would be a massively thick part of the armour because two plates essentially overlap, but in game the mechanics will just say it hit the lower plate and calculate the standard thickness. 



Rainbowkiss83 #16 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:33 PM

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:unsure::(:ohmy:

Erwin_Von_Braun #17 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:41 PM

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Took one look at the score - says a lot when mad things like that happen in games where one is losing badly.

All completely 'random' ofc  :sceptic:



Private_Miros #18 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:49 PM

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Ah, the WoT player base (OP did well to ask, and T34 is not good for anything but earning credits for shooting 2-4 times - it never was better for anything else):

 

1. Blame RNG.

2. See in the thread that the event has nothing to do with RNG, and that this is one of those examples why people think they get bad RNG because they tend to blame mechanics they don't understand or know yet as basically random events.

3. Somehow come to the conclusion below that these are actually random events but that the RNG must be rigged because you're losing.

 

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 04 June 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

Took one look at the score - says a lot when mad things like that happen in games where one is losing badly.

All completely 'random' ofc  :sceptic:

 



Erwin_Von_Braun #19 Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:58 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 04 June 2020 - 05:49 PM, said:

Ah, the WoT player base (OP did well to ask, and T34 is not good for anything but earning credits for shooting 2-4 times - it never was better for anything else):

 

1. Blame RNG.

2. See in the thread that the event has nothing to do with RNG, and that this is one of those examples why people think they get bad RNG because they tend to blame mechanics they don't understand or know yet as basically random events.

3. Somehow come to the conclusion below that these are actually random events but that the RNG must be rigged because you're losing.

 

 


Not exactly what I said, but thanks for your input.



Homer_J #20 Posted 04 June 2020 - 08:45 PM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 04 June 2020 - 06:18 PM, said:



if someones hits you on the border of 2 armor areas it gets a roll for both of those?

 

Shells in game only occupy 1 pixel for the sake of impact calculations so it cannot hit the border of 2 armour areas.

 

Also don't put too much faith in the impact decals , they are there for decoration purposes, not for forensics.

 

You got hit on the overmatch area, that's all there is to it.






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