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Tier X LT MM rework pool/discusion


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Poll: Tier X LT MM rework pool/discusion (94 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Should WG set a limit to max nr of LT's/team in random battles MM, as it has been done with arty?

  1. Yes, limit should be 3/team (15 votes [15.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.96%

  2. Yes, limit should be 2/team (52 votes [55.32%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.32%

  3. Yes, limit should be 1/team (6 votes [6.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

  4. No, I am happy with present MM (21 votes [22.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.34%

Should tier X EBR and LT's be counted separately by MM in random battles, as it was done for ranked games?

  1. Yes (78 votes [82.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 82.98%

  2. No (16 votes [17.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.02%

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Purple_E50_AMG #1 Posted 05 June 2020 - 03:49 AM

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Hello Tankers!

 

 I am sure that plenty of You have been annoyed by tier X mm recently, in terms of number of light tanks, I wanted to make a pool, to see who would like it changed, and who is fine with the present MM. My personal opinion and a reason why I've started this thread can be found bellow, if You want to bother Yourself reading it, if not, just please take a vote :) 


 I am sure that all of You have noticed, that ever since EBR introduction, there has been an enormous amount of light tanks (referred as LT's later in this thread) in random battles match making. It has come to an outrageus games, in which You might find as many as 8 light tanks per team on tier X, which makes it completly unplayable. I mean, everyone who plays tier X frequently, has noticed that those games, in which You have more than 3 lts per team, are more that usual these days, and in my personal opinion it is simply terriable for the game. People are getting spotted (and quite often arty farmed) 30 seconds into the game, HP pool is terriably low, and playing anything is annoying as hell, as You are spotted all the time, bush padded by mentioned LT's, ect. I am not even gonna mention, how annoying it is in terms of skill difference beetwen LT players, nothing beats playing a heavy tank on Proho, with 3 arties, 5 LT's and having Your LT's simply yolo to garage in 30 sec's, while enemy LT's take control over the map, keep spotting and dealing DMG. 

Another thing I'd like mention, is how unfair it is that MM curently does not separate regular LT's from EBR's. I am aware, that it could be hard for MM on lower tiers, but ranked battles have proven that on tier X it is a good solution, which should be implemented into the game as soon as possiable, because let's be honest, T-100/Sheridan/13 105/Wz/RHM into EBR is absolutely unfair. If You take an avrage player on EBR and match him versus an avrage player on T-100, EBR is always gonna have more impact on the game, I am not even gonna mention other tier X LT's vs ebr. 

Now, I can predict WG's reply to this, they would propably say that they don't want people to wait in que for their game on a LT, but WG hear me out, I am sure that everyone, litterly everyone who does play LT's on tier X, wouldn't mind waiting for 30 seconds, even a minute (me personaly could wait for 5 minutes), if they were guaranted a normaly set MM. 

 

Picture for attention, represents the most cancerous kind of a game u can have

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saxsan4 #2 Posted 05 June 2020 - 04:22 AM

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No, what should be done is split WV into their own class as they are really light tanks at all

 

then leave current lights as they are and balance WV parallel. so both teams have the same number of WV and LT



Purple_E50_AMG #3 Posted 05 June 2020 - 04:32 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 05 June 2020 - 04:22 AM, said:

No, what should be done is split WV into their own class as they are really light tanks at all

 

then leave current lights as they are and balance WV parallel. so both teams have the same number of WV and LT

 

That could bottleneck the MM on lower tiers, as there are plenty of regular LT's and only one WV line



LethalWalou #4 Posted 05 June 2020 - 04:35 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 05 June 2020 - 03:22 AM, said:

No, what should be done is split WV into their own class as they are really light tanks at all

 

then leave current lights as they are and balance WV parallel. so both teams have the same number of WV and LT

 

I would agree at least testing to make WVs their own class. I'm not really convinced it would be a good idea but rather they should try to force WVs to be matched against each others instead while letting the MM to also match them against tracked LTs if a pairing isn't found in reasonable time frame.

 

The WVs aren't actually overperforming (apart from the EBR 75) so I wouldn't see any point in nerfing them. Other LTs are underperforming so it would be better to just buff/rebalance them to perform at the levels of WVs. LTs have lost their value over time due to viewrange, mobility and camo value inflation. So those things could be also nerfed to help LTs.

 

PS. Welcome back to the forums ;)



saxsan4 #5 Posted 05 June 2020 - 04:43 AM

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View PostPurple_E50_AMG, on 05 June 2020 - 03:32 AM, said:

 

That could bottleneck the MM on lower tiers, as there are plenty of regular LT's and only one WV line


Maybe, but once they add British and German cars they will have enough 



azakow #6 Posted 05 June 2020 - 05:32 AM

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I am sure that this topic reflects the hardships of a reroller, at 35 seconds into the game.

What hardships?

  • sub avrg team members -> SBMM
  • anonymizer used by opponents -> on input for gameplay
  • 3x SPG -> the usual whining
  • 5x LT -> the ususal WV whining as of lately

 

Go take a break!

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by azakow, 05 June 2020 - 05:36 AM.


Purple_E50_AMG #7 Posted 05 June 2020 - 05:51 AM

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View Postazakow, on 05 June 2020 - 05:32 AM, said:

I am sure that this topic reflects the hardships of a reroller, at 35 seconds into the game.

What hardships?

  • sub avrg team members -> SBMM
  • anonymizer used by opponents -> on input for gameplay
  • 3x SPG -> the usual whining
  • 5x LT -> the ususal WV whining as of lately

 

Go take a break!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

weird flex, but okay



Ghost_DaRNG #8 Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:03 AM

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The lights are still going, it is mainly the artillery that should be limited to one or altogether remove it

malachi6 #9 Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:18 AM

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Are you okay with your queue times going up? 

 

Also, I have never understood equating a life-changing disease with a video game.  Frustrating would be my word of choice but then, I disagree with hyperbole.

 

Your assertion that literally everybody at tier X would be okay with your proposal, is untestable and an assertion that does not have a null hypothesis.



arthurwellsley #10 Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:25 AM

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OP shares a picture showing five T100 tier X USSR light tanks in one battle split three and two.

OP fails to appreciate that the T100 light is TotT at the moment.

OP creates a premise of too many lights without doing some basic research as to why this might be at the moment, and jumps to the wrong conclusions.

Plenty of players chasing the goodies available in the TotT missions for T100 at the moment. Hence the sudden influx of T100's into the match making at tier X.

 

This thread can be closed by mods. If it happened when a light tank was not TotT it might have some meaning, but as it is at the present moment it is based on a false premise.



Ghost_DaRNG #11 Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:27 AM

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View Postmalachi6, on 05 June 2020 - 09:18 AM, said:

Are you okay with your queue times going up? 

 

Also, I have never understood equating a life-changing disease with a video game.  Frustrating would be my word of choice but then, I disagree with hyperbole.

 

Your assertion that literally everybody at tier X would be okay with your proposal, is untestable and an assertion that does not have a null hypothesis.

Have you ever played a game with 7 lights? I have, and I can tell you it’s toxic.



tajj7 #12 Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:32 AM

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I'd go with matching WVs with WVs in the MM. 

 

But for high tier lights that won't help much, they are just not very good tanks compared to their tiers, especially the tier 10s.

 

The best lights in the game are all premiums pretty much. Even 90, LT-4342, EBR 75, AMX 13-57, HWK-30, Type 64 etc. A few ok lights on tier 7 like the WZ and T71 (the autoloader one). 

 

Tier 8-10 lights need buffs, massive buffs in some cases to be competitive, but I get the impression that WG have no desire to have high tier lights actually competitive. Probably because Steve the IS7 player will get upset about getting challenged. 

 

I'd also go with limiting lights in battle, I don't think 5 lights in a game particularly helps anyone, its messy, there aren't spots for them all to work. It also means you have multiple tanks in each team that have low hit points, no armour and are hard to play (so on average you'll have average players in them struggling) which means a large proportion of each team has several tanks that can die very quickly and are very unforgiving, which could then lead to a numbers snowball if your 4 or 5 lights all die quickly (which often they do).

 

 



Purple_E50_AMG #13 Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:42 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 05 June 2020 - 09:25 AM, said:

OP shares a picture showing five T100 tier X USSR light tanks in one battle split three and two.

OP fails to appreciate that the T100 light is TotT at the moment.

OP creates a premise of too many lights without doing some basic research as to why this might be at the moment, and jumps to the wrong conclusions.

Plenty of players chasing the goodies available in the TotT missions for T100 at the moment. Hence the sudden influx of T100's into the match making at tier X.

 

This thread can be closed by mods. If it happened when a light tank was not TotT it might have some meaning, but as it is at the present moment it is based on a false premise.

 

When I was playing EBR last month 268 was TOTT, thats when I had most of my games with 7 lts per team, irrelavent arrgument, get out.

 

Also, some of You for whatever reason refuse to understand that this is a POOL, made to see what people think, hello? good morning? I just expressed my opinion in the post too, doesnt meant I think everyone will like the idea, but im curious to see how many people do


Edited by Purple_E50_AMG, 05 June 2020 - 09:50 AM.


no_skill_bob #14 Posted 05 June 2020 - 10:05 AM

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yup, WVs should be made as separate class, i guess they could do that, when they introduce British wheeled mediums.

2 lts per team is more than enough, i quite like playing lts myself, but 5 per team + 3 artas is a joke - firstly whenever there are many lts and artas on both sides - team HP pool is very low. Secondly considering how bad light tanks are usually played - games are over way faster, than if those people would play slower tanks.

09:08 Added after 3 minute

View Postarthurwellsley, on 05 June 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

OP shares a picture showing five T100 tier X USSR light tanks in one battle split three and two.

OP fails to appreciate that the T100 light is TotT at the moment.

OP creates a premise of too many lights without doing some basic research as to why this might be at the moment, and jumps to the wrong conclusions.

Plenty of players chasing the goodies available in the TotT missions for T100 at the moment. Hence the sudden influx of T100's into the match making at tier X.

 

This thread can be closed by mods. If it happened when a light tank was not TotT it might have some meaning, but as it is at the present moment it is based on a false premise.

it doesnt matter, if its TOTT or not, things like this should not happen, its just that matchmaker is not properly setup - all that it cares about is getting people from queue into battle within the shortest time, if artas would not be capped to 3 - we would see battles with 10 artas per game as well.


Edited by Voldemars_Veiss, 05 June 2020 - 10:05 AM.


malachi6 #15 Posted 05 June 2020 - 10:11 AM

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View PostGhost_DaRNG, on 05 June 2020 - 09:27 AM, said:

Have you ever played a game with 7 lights? I have, and I can tell you it’s toxic.

 

People complain about power creep in the game while using hyperbole to make a point.  Words have meaning.  I understand I am talking semantics.  When you call a soldier doing their job a hero; what do you call the soldier that rescues people while their vehicle is on fire?

 

Losing a loved one to cancer is in no way a similar experience to playing a video game.  Neither is imbibing a poisonous substance.  The correct word is frustrating.  Unfortunately for many, this word lacks potency, so they fall back upon a more basic language that then diminishes our ability to communicate effectively.  Language changes, I understand that.  Changes that diminish clarity and meaning can lead to people talking past each other. These are changes we should attempt to avoid. How am I supposed to know in a written format if you are using the word literally, literally or figuratively (shame on you OED.)? 


Edited by malachi6, 05 June 2020 - 10:22 AM.


Indy_Bones #16 Posted 05 June 2020 - 10:26 AM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 05 June 2020 - 03:35 AM, said:

The WVs aren't actually overperforming (apart from the EBR 75) so I wouldn't see any point in nerfing them.

 

No other vehicle can yolo at 90kmh, spot 70%+ of the enemy team in the first 20 seconds and then happily dash back (often totally unscathed) only to rinse/repeat 20 seconds later...

 

Maybe on individual stats they aren't OP, but the change they make to the game and the meta is absolutely horrible and is making tier X a complete mess at present. Add in Chieftains, 279e's and Progetto's, and you have a blend that's almost toxic, add in 3 SPG's per game, and it's pretty much intolerable.

 

1 vs 1, a good T-100-LT player CAN beat an EBR, but in the process, half their team has evaporated from the EBR's early spots and then comes the expected snowball effect.

 

You can't have a vehicle that has completely supplanted EVERY OTHER LIGHT at tier X and then say it's not overperforming, otherwise, why is every good clan and their dog using them????



Kdingo #17 Posted 05 June 2020 - 10:32 AM

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I think you should keep light tanks in general as far away from the pool as possible.

kuszi1994 #18 Posted 05 June 2020 - 11:30 AM

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They have to limit Lights.. when 4-5 EBR driving like a madman and you are spoted befor you even move out of the base thet's just not right.. and some to arty 1/team more then enough

OofBerry #19 Posted 05 June 2020 - 12:15 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 05 June 2020 - 04:22 AM, said:

No, what should be done is split WV into their own class as they are really light tanks at all

 

then leave current lights as they are and balance WV parallel. so both teams have the same number of WV and LT

 

No. 5 lights a side is stupid whether their wheeled or tracked.

 

Its not even fun for the lights as they get alot less assist as it get split up



DeBanus #20 Posted 05 June 2020 - 12:22 PM

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Good poll.

 

Indeed, the amount of light tanks per game needs to be fixed, as happend to arty per game years ago.






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