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Nerfing premium tanks

premium tanks sandbox balance

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Poll: Nerfing premium tanks when the get extremely OP (85 members have cast votes)

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Nerfing premium tanks when the get extremely OP

  1. No, never (39 votes [45.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.88%

  2. Yes, with a 2 year grace period (2 votes [2.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.35%

  3. Yes, with other comepensation (21 votes [24.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.71%

  4. Yes, and players that bought them have to just deal with it (23 votes [27.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.06%

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Killtech #1 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:01 PM

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So with the equipment changes currently on the sandbox the already OP tanks profit the most. When it comes to scouting equipment the list of tanks that received a huge buff from it sounds like an 1st April joke: all EBRs, E-25, FCM 36 (tier 3), and ELC even 90 (you can make it invisible on the sandbox). (Seen a video of an EBR on the sandbox getting 5k spotting damage in just under a minute in a not so serious game testing the new equipment, hurray!). And the problem is of course is that most of them are premiums with already extreme stats (some from a different age of WoT). And yes, that means WG will not touch them. So with the new equipment balance is on the line (i.e. it can get significantly worse) more then ever, especially if the policy of unnerfable premiums stays untouched. 

 

And I wonder. EU customer protection laws cover purchase refunds of stuff of only up to 2 years. After that there is no legal reason for that policy. So how about this: whenever a player buys a premium tank he only gets a guarantee for its stats not to change for those two years (with a footprint note about this on the purchase screen). However even during the guaranteed time the tank could be nerfed if it is deemed necessary. In that case there will be temporary two versions of tank in the game - original and updated. Everyone past the guarantee will get their tank updated and the players that bought it recently will be given a choice to update to new stats for some in game reward/compensation (no money refunds) on their own or automatically without any compensation after the protection period ends.

 

I suppose some players will of course be outraged anyway, because this is the internet and some people are just looking for an excuse to rage. So yeah, even if WG would decide to nerf some OP prems, don't expect those changes to go too hard on the tank. But in terms of balance every bit counts and is better then nothing.


Edited by Killtech, 06 June 2020 - 02:00 PM.


DaniulSims #2 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:06 PM

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Damn, the ELC EVEN 90 is OP?

splash_time #3 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:14 PM

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So what's your problem exactly? Money refund? Nerfing the prem tanks? Or you're trying to tell us some prem tanks are OP? 

Killtech #4 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:15 PM

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View PostDaniulSims, on 06 June 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

Damn, the ELC EVEN 90 is OP?

 

On the sandbox it kind of feels that way as you can make it invisible. Other builds however look more balanced.

12:19 Added after 4 minute

View Postsplash_time, on 06 June 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:

So what's your problem exactly? Money refund? Nerfing the prem tanks? Or you're trying to tell us some prem tanks are OP? 

 

I try to find some middle ground of a policy that WG, the player owning such tanks, and the playerbase meeting them in battle could live with.

Yeah, I have a few premiums in my garage but I personally don't care for compensation for things like the E-25 or Object xyz (Defender) which I own. I just want a chance to see these tanks balanced. And also I have seen videos from the sandbox making me worry the balancing gets out of hand with the new changes if the don't-touch-prems policy stays. I don't get any compensation for my total money spent when WG breaks the balance of the game entirely.


Edited by Killtech, 06 June 2020 - 01:26 PM.


CmdRatScabies #5 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:36 PM

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View PostKilltech, on 06 June 2020 - 01:01 PM, said:

And I wonder. EU customer protection laws cover purchase refunds of stuff of only up to 2 years. 

I think you'll find the main reason WG don't nerf premiums is a business reason not legal - they want to sell premium tanks and people may stop buying them if they start nerfing them after purchase.



zlaja031 #6 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:44 PM

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Still waiting for OP premium.

Killtech #7 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:45 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 June 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

I think you'll find the main reason WG don't nerf premiums is a business reason not legal - they want to sell premium tanks and people may stop buying them if they start nerfing them after purchase.

 

You are probably right. Maybe however the equipment changes will blow the problem so out of proportion so they will feel it elsewhere that they will have rethink that.

 

Personally however I am more of an optimizer and a collector, so buying a tank that might get nerfed and I get a good compensation for, such that summed up I might end up with a much better deal then any alternative sounds actually like a good reason to buy it. Hmm, just noticed that when I write it down this kind of speculation sound like it has the attraction of gambling...


Edited by Killtech, 06 June 2020 - 01:48 PM.


no_skill_bob #8 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:46 PM

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damn, you learn something new every day - elc even 90 OP confirmed :ohmy:

 

things like fcm pak 40 should not exist in the first place, but it was released at the time when this whole game was quite a lot different than it is now.

sandbox server is really not a good place to evaluate actual effectiveness, as with all the test servers, so EBR getting 5k spotting in first minute is nothing special imho, things like that happen in randoms as well, with current equipment.

E-25, was too good with old maps, old MM, old meta combined with old tanks - nowadays, i really cant see it being OP, unless it get lucky with MM and map. Otherwise, not so much, i mean how effective can you be in it getting constantly matched against Tier 8s on corridor maps? Ok you can play it as a passive scout, what else you are going to do against tier 8s and even some tier 7s that you cant pen anywhere frontally?

as a matter of fact i have sold my e25 long time already, sure i can always recover it, if i feel the need for it or meta changes, but currently i see 0 reasons to even try playing it, i rather play tier 8 alternative - kanonenjadgpanzer 105, which can deal with any tank it meets. 


Edited by Voldemars_Veiss, 06 June 2020 - 01:56 PM.


24doom24 #9 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:49 PM

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WG will never nerf premiums. 

WindSplitter1 #10 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:50 PM

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View PostKilltech, on 06 June 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

And I wonder. EU customer protection laws cover purchase refunds of stuff of only up to 2 years. After that there is no legal reason for that policy. So how about this: whenever a player buys a premium tank he only gets a guarantee for its stats not to change for those two years (with a footprint note about this on the purchase screen). However even during the guaranteed time the tank could be nerfed if it is deemed necessary. In that case there will be temporary two versions of tank in the game - original and updated. Everyone past the guarantee will get their tank updated and the players that bought it recently will be given a choice to update to new stats for some reward/compensation on their own or automatically without any compensation after the protection period ends.

 

I don't think this is a good perception of what you're suggesting that could entail later.

 

What do you suggest that will happen if someone buys a premium vehicle which is later nerfed? Keep in mind the community you're dealing with - they already strugglewith the basics - and even if it were not the case, it would tarnish WG's reputation in such a fashion that costumers would think again before buying something from them. This is oversimplifying things.

 

Block Quote

 So with the equipment changes currently on the sandbox the already OP tanks profit the most. When it comes to scouting equipment the list of tanks that received a huge buff from it sounds like an 1st April joke: all EBRs, E-25, FCM 36 (tier 3), and ELC even 90. (Seen a video of an EBR on the sandbox getting 5k spotting damage in just under a minute in a not so serious game testing the new equipment, hurray!).

 

Good. LTs will be able to spot again and do so more effectively.



CmdRatScabies #11 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:51 PM

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View PostKilltech, on 06 June 2020 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

You are probably right. Maybe however the equipment changes will blow the problem so out of proportion so they will feel it elsewhere that they will have rethink that.

 

Personally however I am more of an optimizer and a collector, so buying a tank that might get nerfed and I get a good compensation for, such that summed up I might end up with a much better deal then any alternative sounds actually like a good reason to buy it.

Or it will present an obstacle that complicates implementation of Equipment 2.0 as they have to modify it to ensure that no premiums are nerfed as a result. 

Too expensive for WG to start giving refunds / compensation.  They did that with that Super Pershing but that's the only one so far to my knowledge.   I believe Type 59 was nerfed without compensation but that experience appears to be what taught them not to nerf premiums.



Killtech #12 Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:59 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 June 2020 - 12:51 PM, said:

Or it will present an obstacle that complicates implementation of Equipment 2.0 as they have to modify it to ensure that no premiums are nerfed as a result. 

Too expensive for WG to start giving refunds / compensation.  They did that with that Super Pershing but that's the only one so far to my knowledge.   I believe Type 59 was nerfed without compensation but that experience appears to be what taught them not to nerf premiums.

 

Not talking about any money refund. Only gold, consumables and in game stuff. That's actually would be very cheap for WG to handle



_Signal_ #13 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:05 PM

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They couldn't anyway, they would have to offer a refund (in UK anyway) and that would cost them $$$$

Edited by _Signal_, 06 June 2020 - 02:06 PM.


CmdRatScabies #14 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:07 PM

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View PostKilltech, on 06 June 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

 

Not talking about any money refund. Only gold, consumables and in game stuff. That's actually would be very cheap for WG to handle

Those are things which they sell for money.  It would impact on Xmas loot box sales, ongoing premium shop sales and lessen the attraction of specials that use these for promotions.



hellhound6 #15 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:09 PM

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Tier 8 EBR must be removed

And defender is piece of joke we don't need in game such things



Killtech #16 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:11 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 June 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

Those are things which they sell for money.  It would impact on Xmas loot box sales, ongoing premium shop sales and lessen the attraction of specials that use these for promotions.

 

Those are the stuff they put in bundles to inflate their price and that barely anyone would buy on their own. They stopped advertising the sales of stuff that doesn't interest players and made the bundles for a reason. So no, i doubt that.


Edited by Killtech, 06 June 2020 - 02:12 PM.


qpranger #17 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:18 PM

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Premium tanks should be nerfed when needed.

Gaijin adjust premium vehicle specs both ways.

People may whine, but War Thunder is more balanced than WOT as a result.



CmdRatScabies #18 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:22 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 06 June 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

Gaijin adjust premium vehicle specs both ways.

People may whine, but War Thunder is more balanced than WOT as a result.

And commercially more successful?



NUKLEAR_SLUG #19 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:25 PM

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View PostKilltech, on 06 June 2020 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

You are probably right. Maybe however the equipment changes will blow the problem so out of proportion so they will feel it elsewhere that they will have rethink that.

 

 

Maybe however the equipment changes are on a test server so this is not the final result and stats will get adjusted? Oh, wait they are on a test server and this is just the first iteration.

 

Who would have thought! 



Killtech #20 Posted 06 June 2020 - 02:30 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

And commercially more successful?

As if the premium tank policy was the only difference.







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