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Some WN8 questions


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Gruff_ #1 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:28 PM

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Does anyone know the current wn8 formula / exact factors in 2020 that influence these numbers?  Have had a look around but left with some questions.

 

Am I right in thinking blocked damage or ratio doesn't factor in?

 

I know damage done is the biggest part but does this also include, asssistance damage through tracking & spotting?

 

Would damage via stun count also?  Cap points?



JocMeister #2 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:32 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 03:28 PM, said:

Does anyone know the current wn8 formula / exact factors in 2020 that influence these numbers?  Have had a look around but left with some questions.

 

Am I right in thinking blocked damage or ratio doesn't factor in?

 

I know damage done is the biggest part but does this also include, asssistance damage through tracking & spotting?

 

Would damage via stun count also?  Cap points?

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/547149-wn8-formula-detailed-breakdown-stat-nerds-should-drop-by/

 

Basically damage and kills. Assistance is not counted nor is blocked, stun or capping.

 


Edited by JocMeister, 06 June 2020 - 03:34 PM.


Kdingo #3 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:34 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 03:28 PM, said:

Does anyone know the current wn8 formula / exact factors in 2020 that influence these numbers?  Have had a look around but left with some questions.

 

Am I right in thinking blocked damage or ratio doesn't factor in?

 

I know damage done is the biggest part but does this also include, asssistance damage through tracking & spotting?

 

Would damage via stun count also?  Cap points?

 

WN8 also depends heavily on what tanks you play, there are certain ones that require not much of you to reach unicum colors others will barely get you above green despite same performance.



CmdRatScabies #4 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:42 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 03:28 PM, said:

Does anyone know the current wn8 formula / exact factors in 2020 that influence these numbers?  Have had a look around but left with some questions.

 

Am I right in thinking blocked damage or ratio doesn't factor in?

 

I know damage done is the biggest part but does this also include, asssistance damage through tracking & spotting?

 

Would damage via stun count also?  Cap points?

I don't think the formula has really changed since it was introduced.  Just the expected values that get updated - completely automated now that XVM manage it rather than WotLabs.  Spotting, tracking, stunning isn't counted.



Erwin_Von_Braun #5 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:46 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 06 June 2020 - 02:32 PM, said:

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/547149-wn8-formula-detailed-breakdown-stat-nerds-should-drop-by/

 

Basically damage and kills. Assistance is not counted nor is blocked, stun or capping.

 

 

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 June 2020 - 02:42 PM, said:

I don't think the formula has really changed since it was introduced.  Just the expected values that get updated - completely automated now that XVM manage it rather than WotLabs.  Spotting, tracking, stunning isn't counted.


Forgive me for being thick (don't care much for stats) but doesn't this make the whole exercise rather pointless?

 



Objec7 #6 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:47 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 03:28 PM, said:

Does anyone know the current wn8 formula / exact factors in 2020 that influence these numbers?  Have had a look around but left with some questions.

 

Am I right in thinking blocked damage or ratio doesn't factor in?

 

I know damage done is the biggest part but does this also include, asssistance damage through tracking & spotting?

 

Would damage via stun count also?  Cap points?

WN8 builds up mostly by dealing damage and killing enemies. Good result is always damage dependant, every tank I 3 mark I need to play for at least 3k wn8 and more often closer to 4k wn8.



moenie #7 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:48 PM

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I thought it did involve decapping at the very least or am I wrong on that?

Objec7 #8 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:48 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 06 June 2020 - 03:34 PM, said:

 

WN8 also depends heavily on what tanks you play, there are certain ones that require not much of you to reach unicum colors others will barely get you above green despite same performance.

Basically weak tanks are the best tanks to farm WN8 as long as you can play the tank well.



Kdingo #9 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:50 PM

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View PostObjec7, on 06 June 2020 - 03:48 PM, said:

Basically weak tanks are the best tanks to farm WN8 as long as you can play the tank well.


 Yep, the lower the expectations on a tank the easier to farm wn8 in it.

14:52 Added after 2 minute

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 06 June 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

 


Forgive me for being thick (don't care much for stats) but doesn't this make the whole exercise rather pointless?

 

 

Not really, as games are won with damage/kills. It all boils down to this so its in its core the go to thing.

Keep in mind that the expected values vary per tank, so you don´t need as much damage/kills in a light tank as you are expected to do in a med of same tier for the same wn8 gain.



Gruff_ #10 Posted 06 June 2020 - 03:57 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 June 2020 - 03:42 PM, said:

I don't think the formula has really changed since it was introduced.  Just the expected values that get updated - completely automated now that XVM manage it rather than WotLabs.  Spotting, tracking, stunning isn't counted.


Ok thanks, though dmg is of course important to winning the game I thought the value may have been updated over time to include more team work factors like the assistance not just the initial spotting of tanks.

15:00 Added after 3 minute

View PostObjec7, on 06 June 2020 - 03:47 PM, said:

WN8 builds up mostly by dealing damage and killing enemies. Good result is always damage dependant, every tank I 3 mark I need to play for at least 3k wn8 and more often closer to 4k wn8.


I find it odd that the wn8 doesnt include the assisted where moe does, as assisted is all part of the team winning.



unhappy__bunny #11 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:02 PM

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But WN8 doesn't take into account the waves of overpoweredness nor the ratio between comfort monetarisation and the spotting of bushes from the flank. Or something like that. :hiding:

CmdRatScabies #12 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:04 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 06 June 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

 


Forgive me for being thick (don't care much for stats) but doesn't this make the whole exercise rather pointless?

 

It is what it is.  How useful depends what you use it for / want to read in to it.

WN8 does tend to correlate strongly with the other performance metrics though - doing lots of damage helps you to win, gain MoE etc.



Kdingo #13 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:04 PM

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View Postunhappy__bunny, on 06 June 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

But WN8 doesn't take into account the waves of overpoweredness nor the ratio between comfort monetarisation and the spotting of bushes from the flank. Or something like that. :hiding:

 

Nor does it give bonus points for well performed sleipnir moves.... but lets not attract to much attention to it, or your moderation skills may be required once again when i start to question a certain persons sanity.



CmdRatScabies #14 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:07 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 03:57 PM, said:


Ok thanks, though dmg is of course important to winning the game I thought the value may have been updated over time to include more team work factors like the assistance not just the initial spotting of tanks.

I think it's just a case of not being able to put all factors into one performance number and having to use several to form a balance picture.   The reworded WG PR stat had the potential to include everything that happens in the game.  It hasn't taken over though and you hardly see it referred to.



Kdingo #15 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:11 PM

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WG PR rating has its own flaws in my opinion as it is heavily beneficial the higher tier you play. You can carry game after game far above expectations in tier 5 and still end up with a worse pr rating then being just mediocre playing tier x.

arthurwellsley #16 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:11 PM

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View Postmoenie, on 06 June 2020 - 02:48 PM, said:

I thought it did involve decapping at the very least or am I wrong on that?

 

No. Cap and de-cap points were I believe in Wn7 but it was found that players were manipulating it too much and so by Wn8 it was removed.



Objec7 #17 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:14 PM

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View Postunhappy__bunny, on 06 June 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

But WN8 doesn't take into account the waves of overpoweredness nor the ratio between comfort monetarisation and the spotting of bushes from the flank. Or something like that. :hiding:

The earlier post answered this but also, I don't think WN8 is the best stat to look at, I like to look at MoE, dpg and winrate. I don't think winrate is super accurate stat on tank base but as long as it is in the certain level of good and not 45 % or something like that.



Gruff_ #18 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:17 PM

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So are there any other metrics around that people currently use / put value in?  Not looking to pad anything just curious to track personal progress.

 

I know I really need to work on my survival rate, and patience.  I do look at the ingame dmg done to taken ratio and daily wins/battles.  Most afternoons before playing I visit wotlabs to see how the previous day went, though of course I know when I went potato mode and when I have done ok, but some times after what was a bad run of games it turns out despite losing I still had some ok figures so that's a little boost to morale.


Edited by Gruff_, 06 June 2020 - 04:22 PM.


Private_Miros #19 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:17 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 06 June 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

 

No. Cap and de-cap points were I believe in Wn7 but it was found that players were manipulating it too much and so by Wn8 it was removed.

 

Decap points still play a role in the calculation. Cap points was Efficiency that favoured them, so yeah, people were capping to pad their rating then.

 

View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 02:57 PM, said:


Ok thanks, though dmg is of course important to winning the game I thought the value may have been updated over time to include more team work factors like the assistance not just the initial spotting of tanks.

15:00 Added after 3 minute


I find it odd that the wn8 doesnt include the assisted where moe does, as assisted is all part of the team winning.

 

WN8 was made with the information available from the API. Assisted damage sadly enough is not part of that. A recent thread on WoTLabs shows the sentiment regarding that: https://forum.wotlab...mage-and-kills/

 

 

-----------------

 

General comment that I repeated before:

WN8 was meant as an approximation rating. Very bad, vs bad, vs average, vs good, vs very good. It never meant to compare too similar players, for that you always need to look at tanks played and recent stats.


Edited by Private_Miros, 06 June 2020 - 04:19 PM.


Objec7 #20 Posted 06 June 2020 - 04:20 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 06 June 2020 - 04:17 PM, said:

So are there any other metrics around that people currently use / put value in?  Not looking to pad anything just curious to track personal progress.

WN8 is the only metric people look at but on top level I don't think people care about WN8 as much anymore. I used to care about WN8, now I judge player's skills by looking at their average damage, mark of excellence and winrate on certain tanks.






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