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Wheeled Vehicles/arty combination making games shorter

WV Artillery Combination Gameplay Short Fast Bad

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AgonyAg_Sant #1 Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:24 PM

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So, I wanted to start a new discussion on this problem.

Games with 2-3 wheeled vehicles and 2-3 arty are making games really fast and short with horrible gameplay.

I can recall one game that i had with 3 EBR 105's and 2 arty (OBJ 261 and BC 155 58), and that was a combination on both teams. It was horrible, atrocious and utterly bad. Constant hits by arty, and booming and zooming EBR's left almost no part of gameplay for other tanks. As they attack really fast and spot for arty, the game looses sense of attacking on any front of the map. It just becomes a big stew of forced incompetence and chaos that ends the game really fast.

And that's only one game that i have described, but as it is, it's neither the only one or the last one that awaits us in any future battles.



hellhound6 #2 Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:34 PM

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Yeah  especially when wheeled cards are 3-4 in each team at tier X

Have no idea why, We need les spot at tier X because maps are the same and almost all tanks have view range 445



AgonyAg_Sant #3 Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:39 PM

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View Posthellhound6, on 10 June 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:

Yeah  especially when wheeled cards are 3-4 in each team at tier X

Have no idea why, We need les spot at tier X because maps are the same and almost all tanks have view range 445

It really needs some kind of a restriction on the number of arty/wv vehicles when in combination.

The game just looses 3-5 tanks that play it as it should be played, per battle of this sort.



tajj7 #4 Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:42 PM

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That doesn't really make sense, people complain that WVs make people hide and camp, and arty, the best way to avoid multiple arty is to hide behind big cover or not get spotted.

 

So how does that makes games faster, the only thing I can see that would make games faster is that lots of lights and lots of arty have no HP and no armour so die quickly, and there isn't enough HP and armour to make a stand, which would also be true of other lights.

 

IMO games end quickly because some maps are horribly imbalanced to one team, some tanks like 279e or Chieftains or Bobjects can just dominate flanks, and we have loads and loads of terrible players now on tier 10 that don't know what they are doing. 



qpranger #5 Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:44 PM

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inb4sadlock

kejmo #6 Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:50 PM

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Like i always say...Yuriy, Igor and Anton, the masters of WG "balance" department think its ok and balanced. So, who are we, pitiful millions of players, to complain ?

 

When gulag say its gud, then its gud. Git gud. Better. 



Balc0ra #7 Posted 10 June 2020 - 04:22 PM

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On average for me, according to my replay analyzer. EBR or not, the battles are still close to the old average. Not way shorter. A passive 490m 1390 on a flank vs a yolo EBR 90 is not much different, last one just do it earlier, the first one sees more. On tier 6 I see more T-50-2 that yolo then EBR's to make the game "shorter" that way.

 

As for arty? Tbh more so then not you do take longer to win your HT lane. As in you need more time to dig up some of the targets. So then it's down to the mediums and lights flanking around to box it in. And they win their flank as fast as usual to make much of a difference tbh.



Karasu_Hidesuke #8 Posted 10 June 2020 - 04:34 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 10 June 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

inb4sadlock

 

Perhaps the mods will get confused, as this is about BOTH arty AND the wheelies. There is no pinned thread for covering the uhm.. combined effect of these.. these.. wonderful and exciting features of WoT game play...



AgonyAg_Sant #9 Posted 10 June 2020 - 04:48 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 10 June 2020 - 01:42 PM, said:

That doesn't really make sense, people complain that WVs make people hide and camp, and arty, the best way to avoid multiple arty is to hide behind big cover or not get spotted.

 

So how does that makes games faster, the only thing I can see that would make games faster is that lots of lights and lots of arty have no HP and no armour so die quickly, and there isn't enough HP and armour to make a stand, which would also be true of other lights.

 

IMO games end quickly because some maps are horribly imbalanced to one team, some tanks like 279e or Chieftains or Bobjects can just dominate flanks, and we have loads and loads of terrible players now on tier 10 that don't know what they are doing. 

Well maps like cliff don't offer much protection, especially in the mid and right flank, and that's just one map. And for the WV's, i play lights a lot, love that type of gameplay, and it feels horrible when i see couple of the WV's on my team and on the other. Ther is a point in just playing good, and there is a point in them just rushing all over the map. Even going in just to spot and die, reveals a lot, and they have a bigger chance to survive by evading shots. And when you combine that with 2-3 arty, especially with an autoloader arty and fast firing arty, it end's much faster.

 



VeryRisky #10 Posted 10 June 2020 - 05:58 PM

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I was hoping this was goign to be about a new line of wheeled SPG



malachi6 #11 Posted 11 June 2020 - 03:42 AM

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View Postkejmo, on 10 June 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

Like i always say...Yuriy, Igor and Anton, the masters of WG "balance" department think its ok and balanced. So, who are we, pitiful millions of players, to complain ?

 

When gulag say its gud, then its gud. Git gud. Better. 

 

An argument from popularity.  Many people can hold a belief and be wrong.  There are some 4,200 religions on earth.  If a deity of some sort does exist then, 4199 religions are wrong.



notAdvised #12 Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:10 AM

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ban all arty players 

 



Spurtung #13 Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:42 AM

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View PostnotAdvised, on 11 June 2020 - 05:10 AM, said:

ban all arty players 

 

...for what reason, specifically?



StronkiTonki #14 Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:52 AM

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Wheelies barely make a difference. I still get 4 minute matches without wheelies in them.

Artillery is definitely one of the biggest problems in the game.

Every single battle that has arty in it is a guarantee to shorten any kind of combat encounter between teammates.

 

Other factors are the higher alpha in the game, and the increased amount of autoloaders.



trispect #15 Posted 11 June 2020 - 07:26 AM

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I don't think it shows in average battle duration. Only scenario when that happens because of WV's is in high tier games when there is open map AND there is like 3 EBR's. 

tajj7 #16 Posted 11 June 2020 - 09:51 AM

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View PostAgonyAg_Sant, on 10 June 2020 - 03:48 PM, said:

Well maps like cliff don't offer much protection, especially in the mid and right flank, and that's just one map. And for the WV's, i play lights a lot, love that type of gameplay, and it feels horrible when i see couple of the WV's on my team and on the other. Ther is a point in just playing good, and there is a point in them just rushing all over the map. Even going in just to spot and die, reveals a lot, and they have a bigger chance to survive by evading shots. And when you combine that with 2-3 arty, especially with an autoloader arty and fast firing arty, it end's much faster.

 

 

I think the same problem occurs with too many lights as well, people just make more fuss about WVs generally. If there are lots of lights, even ignoring WVs they all don't know what to do as most maps barely have any spots for light or at best have one, so good players in lights will tend to go support role, but average and bad players when they can't go to the obvious spotting bush just end up driving and yoloing around the place, and it gets messy. 

 

Too many lights, be those tracked or WVs doesn't do good for the gameplay, 3 arty certainly doesn't that is horrible gameplay. 

 

Plus I think too many TDs, arty and lights in one game are generally problematic, often it means too little HP, too little armour and too many support tanks, without anything to support.  You can often have games with 2-3 arty, 3-4 lights tanks, 5-7 TDs, and then barely any heavies or meds with armour that can actually play frontline, and the few ones you have get constantly spotted and constantly artied, and if they make a mistake there are mutliple camping TDs waiting to wreck them.

 

Which then all IMO makes it so if you have all that mess on the map, if one team's few heavies or meds screw up, or one team has a 279E or Bobject or something that rolls a flank, the other team that loses their handful of armoured tanks, can't make any stand or last in the game because they are all paper and all want to hide behind each other camping, and the team folds in a few minutes.

 

IMO there arty should be hard limited to 1 per side, lights probably maximum 3, maybe even 2, and TDs at a max of say 5, so you still have a decent amount of heavies and meds that can play more all round roles, have more HP and are often armoured to play frontline.  So there is a bit more steel and HP to get through before you get to the soft tanks and teams might not collapse like a house of cards so easily. 



Objec7 #17 Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:00 AM

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Max 2 lights/team, max 1 EBR/team, max 1 arty/team, make tier X harder to get or make players unlock their way to tier X as an example by playing enough battles or by completing certain mission. The amount of players even with under 5k battles on tier X is insane and when you see a player camping redline with his Super Conqueror, you know he's a new player.

Warzey #18 Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:19 AM

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View PostObjec7, on 11 June 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

Max 2 lights/team, max 1 EBR/team, max 1 arty/team, make tier X harder to get or make players unlock their way to tier X as an example by playing enough battles or by completing certain mission. The amount of players even with under 5k battles on tier X is insane and when you see a player camping redline with his Super Conqueror, you know he's a new player.

 

What do you expect when we have premium account with 5x daily missions, clan exp boost, platoon exp boost, personal exp boost and we have blueprints on top of that. With all the boosts you can literally power through whole line in a couple of days.



Karasu_Hidesuke #19 Posted 11 June 2020 - 11:01 AM

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View PostStronkiTonki, on 11 June 2020 - 05:52 AM, said:

Wheelies barely make a difference. I still get 4 minute matches without wheelies in them.

Artillery is definitely one of the biggest problems in the game.

Every single battle that has arty in it is a guarantee to shorten any kind of combat encounter between teammates.

 

Other factors are the higher alpha in the game, and the increased amount of autoloaders.

 

Arty can be a problem, depending if they competent or not, also depending very much how much they get spotting help from their team. The EBR's play a role in this, they can do a massive amount of spotting quickly providing their arty with a selection of juicy targets to pick from. The EBR's can also quickly break the tracks rendering their targets inoperative and even further making the arty a problem.

 

Remove either arty or the wheelies, and I vote removing the EBR's or massively altering their characteristics.



Tilly042 #20 Posted 11 June 2020 - 11:40 AM

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There are pinned threads for this.  Its much easier then for WG to ignore the common themes from the player base in just a couple of threads rather than several.  :)





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