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Why is game is becoming unplayable

balance match making problems RNG

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the_nebuchadnezzar #21 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:21 PM

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View Postsmokeytheband1t, on 10 June 2020 - 04:55 PM, said:

 

yes EBR are the cause of a problem that was around before EBRs existed.

 

i like your thinking.

You would know everything about WoT with your "huge" number of battles played and all the "long" years you where playing the game back in the day... :facepalm:



UserZer00 #22 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:23 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 10 June 2020 - 07:21 PM, said:

 

Roger that.  Will  give it a go, adding extra grease just to be sure I get the flip to effort ratio high.  Will post photos to show how well this works.....

Unicum status here I come!

 

But don't be surprised if it's the men in the white coats who come for you instead.

 

(They will in no way be linked to WG and their efforts to keep people from becoming Unicums)



evilchaosmonkey #23 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:27 PM

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View Post___Torpex___, on 10 June 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

 

Yep, same as this one? Or the infamous Hummel BOT ?

Game ruined for 14 others... over and over again. And no (re)action from WG.

 

Well that settles the age old question, what's a crappy player's impact on a game.  Its 48% - 39% = terribad win chance.

Something positive came out of those 85,000 games at least. 

 

Maybe he's a Valium salesman doing his bit to up company profits in whatever way he can.



LepiSale #24 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:31 PM

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There are too many awful players.

Private_Miros #25 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:40 PM

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View PostLepiSale, on 10 June 2020 - 06:31 PM, said:

There are too many awful players.

 

To me the only awful player is the one that blames others.

 

I don't care if there's a utter bad player on my team as long as he has the same chance of appearing on the other team. Everyone has the right to play, and no one is obliged to be remotely good at pixel tanks. If you want to be good at pixel tanks, the bad players are a reason why this is possible and not a hurdle to you becoming good.



ShimmerUK #26 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:44 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 10 June 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

 

Tiger and King Tiger armour could always be easily penetrated with normal ammo.

 

Mediums were always better and more flexible tanks. If anything, recent developments have made heavy tanks more meta, not less. Fast (and therefor) flexible heavies and heavily armoured mediums are king.

 

 

  

Nope back when it was just USA, USSR, Germ other tiers 8 tanks could not pen its gun mantle head-on without gold and the T-29 could hull down and be pretty much impossible to penetrate as well

Mediums where still good T-54 used to be able to get under MAUS and kill you and you could do nothing about it and tended to have the most Damage PEr Second.

but could not engage a heavy head-on and live in most situations.


Edited by ShimmerUK, 10 June 2020 - 07:48 PM.


Kdingo #27 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:50 PM

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View PostShimmerUK, on 10 June 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

  

Nope back when it was just USA, USSR, Germ other tiers 8 tanks could not pen its gun mantlet head-on without gold and the T-29 could hull down and be pretty much impossible to penetrate as well

 

Back then normalization was higher, meaning pen rolls have been higher, on average, yet the kt still had only 180mm turret front. The tiger 1 didn't even have a mantlet back then.

You could reliably plow through there with ap from t32, is3 etc.

Back then people mostly didn't cause shooting lfp was easier. 

 

T29 hulldown was always a "cupola snipe party", at least after they removed the ears (rangefinders) as hitboxes.



ShimmerUK #28 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:58 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 10 June 2020 - 06:50 PM, said:

 

Back then normalization was higher, meaning pen rolls have been higher, on average, yet the kt still had only 180mm turret front. The tiger 1 didn't even have a mantlet back then.

You could reliably plow through there with ap from t32, is3 etc.

Back then people mostly didn't cause shooting lfp was easier. 

 

T29 hulldown was always a "cupola snipe party", at least after they removed the ears (rangefinders) as hitboxes.

 

Yer T29 ears where a weak spot tended to be what I used to aim for but can makes my point a weak spot removed why? Because it's no longer needed and with the high Prem ammo fired you don't need it anymore hull down a t-29 and watch the gold ammo fly through your armour head-on.

 

while I not saying it was impossible to Pen the Flat manlet of a tiger II it was harder with normal ammo now people load that 250+ MM ammo and plough through 100% 

So I wasn't not saying it was impossible to penetrate it still on it's manlet it was not as guaranteed it was harder to do and I should know I had over 2,000 battles in the Tiger II so when it comes to a tank I know how it played then to now.

I am also pretty sure AP of T32 and IS3 was lower than it is now and the IS was less accurate so hitting was a challenge.

 


Edited by ShimmerUK, 10 June 2020 - 08:01 PM.


Private_Miros #29 Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:59 PM

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View PostShimmerUK, on 10 June 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

  

Nope back when it was just USA, USSR, Germ other tiers 8 tanks could not pen its gun mantlet head-on without gold and the T-29 could hull down and be pretty much impossible to penetrate as well

 

Neither KT nor T29 were changed. You could penetrate same the sides of the frontal turret with normal same tier AP of the KT since the start, and the T29 gun mantlet still works against premium, while the roof has always been vulnerable, both to overmatch as well as low penetration shots to the copula.

 

Actually T29 is stronger now because in the period you talk about you could penetrate the ears reliably with like 160mm.


Edited by Private_Miros, 10 June 2020 - 08:00 PM.


Kdingo #30 Posted 10 June 2020 - 08:03 PM

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View PostShimmerUK, on 10 June 2020 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

Yer T29 ears where a weak spot tended to be what I used to aim for while I not saying it was impossible to Pen the Flat manlet of a tiger II it was harder with normal ammo now people load that 250+ MM ammo and plough through 100% 

So I wasn't not saying it was impossible to penetrate it still on it's manlet it was not as guaranteed it was harder to do and I should know I had over 2,000 battles in the Tiger II so when it comes to a tank I know how it played then to now.

I am also pretty sure AP of T32 and IS3 was lower than it is now and the IS was less accurate so hitting was a challenge.

 

 

Nope t32, is3 ap didn't change at all. Still 198/225 as it used to be in 2011.

Hitting was also far easier back then as accuracy/dispersion hasn't been nerfed.

 

Blame the accuracy nerf for the increase in prem ammo usage.



ShimmerUK #31 Posted 10 June 2020 - 08:05 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 10 June 2020 - 07:03 PM, said:

 

Nope t32, is3 ap didn't change at all. Still 198/225 as it used to be in 2011.

Hitting was also far easier back then as accuracy/dispersion hasn't been nerfed.

 

Blame the accuracy nerf for the increase in prem ammo usage.

I'll research this as I am 100% confident it was changed because I remember a patch for  the BL-9 changes might be before 2011 tho but I know there were changes made but as they don't keep older stats will be hard to find



Ba_nshee #32 Posted 10 June 2020 - 11:25 PM

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Other massive, massive issue are losing/wining streaks. It is not secret any more that match making favorites selective group of players over period of time, and after certain time it switches to other group. This ain't some conspiracy theory, but lot of researches have been made

 

Okhey then. :honoring:

Did they write anything interesting after this?



Kdingo #33 Posted 10 June 2020 - 11:44 PM

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View PostBa_nshee, on 10 June 2020 - 11:25 PM, said:

 

Okhey then. :honoring:

Did they write anything interesting after this?

 

Uneducated savage.... have you never heard about the research compendium of prof. dr. riggedy rigged. Countless of dangerous expeditions into the remote and savage areas of mm.

He discovered the only viable way to protect yourself from rigging demons is to wear tinfoil hats. Preferably 1 inch thick, bonus points for style.

Rumors are he once nearly managed to capture and tame a rigging demon using his blessed tinfoil lasso of superfaith.... imagine the lessons we could have learned from that.

Sadly he died in an attempt to reach rigging immunity by applying himself a molten tinfoil enema.



ONE77ZERO13 #34 Posted 10 June 2020 - 11:51 PM

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View Postthe_nebuchadnezzar, on 10 June 2020 - 07:21 PM, said:

You would know everything about WoT with your "huge" number of battles played and all the "long" years you where playing the game back in the day... :facepalm:

 

my account predates EBR introduction

 

so.. yea i can know.


Edited by smokeytheband1t, 10 June 2020 - 11:51 PM.


WindSplitter1 #35 Posted 11 June 2020 - 02:37 AM

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View Post___Torpex___, on 10 June 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

 

Yep, same as this one? Or the infamous Hummel BOT ?

Game ruined for 14 others... over and over again. And no (re)action from WG.

 

This guy has not been punished yet. How strange.



a_s_c_h_e #36 Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:27 AM

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Conclusion:

I know there are other problems, like artillery, bugs and similar, bu ain't so important and impactfull like those three I've mentioned up there. I believe player's don't want to be treated like that any more. While some days having 30% victories and some days 70% with same playstyle,  I feel it is just not possible to make impact as before, but one player depends on RNG much much more. I'm really not interested in rigging match making in order to have more victories like lot of other guys are doing it, just in order to have fun again. I probably won't play the game, except doing these testings to proove what I claim from first hand. I might even share it on YouTube later, but it will take some time. I'd like to hear your opinion on his one.  

 

 

You are absolutely right, its [edited]disgusting what Wargaming does to people in this game, [edited]disgusting!!!!!!! I wonder which online game works like this retard game, i mean uses "RNG" LOL. I think none. Where skill does not matter, i play since 2013 got over 40k battles and yes my stats could be better but im not [edited]padding, and still i feel many many times like im some kind of [edited]newbie whos just started the game yesterday. Like today i experinced what you just wrote ive got that losing streak IAM SOO [edited]ANGRY BECAUSE OF THIS and [edited]wheeled craptanks fuu worst thing that wargaming did in this game. Im trying to do [edited]missions, but impossible to do them so dear wargaming you could take them out.. and thank you this wonderful morning Gooo and [edited]your self in the face with a big hammer pls.



Jauhesammutin #37 Posted 11 June 2020 - 07:37 AM

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View PostBacarchi, on 10 June 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

Hello. considering I'm playing this game since 2014, I have to admit I've never had so bad experiences sicnce then, and considering I'm not very often posting on forum, decided to make a bit longer review from my point of view. There are few fundamental problems which really didn't exist or were so less effective in earlier days of game. I will divide biggest problems and their solutions, therefore you won't say I am only cirticising game :)

 

First:    Match-making and RNG

So called MM is one of oldest questionable things. When it was announced, I was strongly against 3-5-7 match making. This is where lot of 5 minute battles come from, because 45% are lowest tier, while game mostly depends on first 3 players which have much larger impact in game. Before, when I was starting game and didn't have much knowledge about game, I didn't find totally randomised +/- 4 MM very bad. Sometimes you would be only tier 6 in game with 8's and sometimes you could be only 9 tier with tiers 6 and 7. It could happen to anyone and people were used to that. Also most of people have their max xp per game fom back in the days, because now when fighting +/-2 or 3 it's much harder to earn that experience than fighting against tier 9's. Other massive, massive issue are losing/wining streaks. It is not secret any more that match making favorites selective group of players over period of time, and after certain time it switches to other group. This ain't some conspiracy theory, but lot of researches have been made questioning randomising in-game (you can find it on forum too) When we're talking about RNG, I have nothing against it as an idea if it would work same for everyone. Problem is RNG gives massive opportunity to game creators to totally manipulate it in somebody's favour. If you don't believe me in this part, make a research by your own. Monitor your MM over selected number of battles, and compare it to some top-streamer's and you will see what I'm talking about. To shorten everything up, I can tell you little secret if you wan't to have better victory rate. When you feel MM is putting you in those fast-losing games constantly, after the battle ask someone from enemy team to invite you to platoon. In that case you will switch to his favoritised group and match making. My friend is currently testing it (FC in very good clan) and with practically same stats as mine, he has 62,5% win ratio while I got 58 overall after selected period of time. This is also easily recordable thing, and I'd be happy if somebody would be willing to do that kind of test for themselves and share it with community.     

 

 

Matchmaking is at the best spot it's ever been.

3-5-7 was a bit monotonous, but we have other templates. Now MM is predictable and quite well balanced. Couple of weeks ago I checked some old replays about the MM. There were battles with 15 T7 heavies vs 14 T7 heavies + T5 scout. Is that fun for the other team to start off with that kind of disadvantage? There were battles with 15 T10 vs 14 T10 + T8 and battles with 1 T10 + 14 T8 on both teams. How big of an impact does that give to the one player per team?

 

As far as I know RNG hasn't changed since the beginning (except accuracy). So how is the game becoming unplayable after 10 years of the same stuff?

 

Why do I have to research the rigged RNG on my own? You come up with a ridiculous claim and make it my job to prove it? No, that's not how it works. 

 

 

View PostBacarchi, on 10 June 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

Second:   Premium, Pay2win and unbalanced tanks

It it obvius that WG is afraid. They are afraid of opinion of 2000-3000 best players out there, and are willing to ruin everything to 98% of all other active, semi-active or new players which are having hardest time playing the game. Here I am focusing on Defenders, EBR's, 279's, 907's, Cheftains and similar game-breaking tanks. WG is digging deeper and deeper hole for themselves, and planning to balance absolutely all tanks, but not those few which they should. Imagine if someone in 2014 said that there would be tanks totally unpenetratable from anywhere frontally...I simply wouldn't believe that:D I understand it's massive company and need to give salaries to 4500 employees, but making so unbalanced premium tanks is just like shooting yourself in healhy leg lol.  Also WG can say game ain't Pay2win..and it's not. It's even worse - it's pay2play. Imagine not being in clan which gives credit boosts or not having premium time while wanting to play 9 and 10 tier. (didn't even mention food which costs 20k per battle) That is mission impossible even for experienced players.

 

 

 

I agree. All the tanks in the game should be somewhat in the same balance range. Of course you can't make all of them identical to have some diversity. IMO they should balance tanks every month with small tweaks instead of this overhauling once per year where they completely change couple of tanks and turn the meta upside down. At least some other companies do that.

 

Pay2play is lot better than P2W. Almost all of my games I've played are Pay2play starting from all the PlayStation 1 games (none of them was free).

 

View PostBacarchi, on 10 June 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Third: 5 minute blitz battles

Same as Pay2win. Wg member said it's not big problem. Well - it is. It is just result of poor tank balancing combined with 3-5-7 MM. This problem even put artillery like some micro problem compared to this. There is nothing good with it, and I advice them to open their eyes bit better. It feels like most of WG stuff never actually played their own game.

 

 

I don't really understand why 5 minute blitz battles are so frowned upon. Roughly every 5th battle is a 5 minute battle. What's the problem in that? Some games are fast while some games are slow. It adds diversity to the game. This is totally the fault of players, not WG's. Make everyone sit at the base for the first 5 minutes and every single battle will be longer than 5 minutes. But nope, players rush and try to kill the enemies as fast as possible. What can WG do? Lower the DPM to half for every tank to artificially make the battles longer?

 

View PostBacarchi, on 10 June 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

 

Conclusion:

I know there are other problems, like artillery, bugs and similar, bu ain't so important and impactfull like those three I've mentioned up there. I believe player's don't want to be treated like that any more. While some days having 30% victories and some days 70% with same playstyle,  I feel it is just not possible to make impact as before, but one player depends on RNG much much more. I'm really not interested in rigging match making in order to have more victories like lot of other guys are doing it, just in order to have fun again. I probably won't play the game, except doing these testings to proove what I claim from first hand. I might even share it on YouTube later, but it will take some time. I'd like to hear your opinion on his one.  

 

Sounds like you got bored with the game and are trying to find reasons why. I have played since 2013 with on-off sessions and I'm still having fun. Maybe it's time to change the game for a while?

Once you play enough of any single game you can make up problems which "totally ruin" the game.

 



LepiSale #38 Posted 11 June 2020 - 07:44 AM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 10 June 2020 - 07:40 PM, said:

 

To me the only awful player is the one that blames others.

 

I don't care if there's a utter bad player on my team as long as he has the same chance of appearing on the other team. Everyone has the right to play, and no one is obliged to be remotely good at pixel tanks. If you want to be good at pixel tanks, the bad players are a reason why this is possible and not a hurdle to you becoming good.

One awful player is never a problem, but when you have 5 awful players on a 15 payer team, you can't do much unless you are a unicorn. And vast majority of players aren't unicorns. I never said some people have no right to play. You are putting words in my mouth.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #39 Posted 11 June 2020 - 07:49 AM

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View Posta_s_c_h_e, on 11 June 2020 - 06:27 AM, said:

I believe player's don't want to be treated like that any more. While some days having 30% victories and some days 70% with same playstyle, 

 

So which of those is the unfair treatment? The day you get 30% or the day you get 70%?


Edited by NUKLEAR_SLUG, 11 June 2020 - 07:59 AM.


kaneloon #40 Posted 11 June 2020 - 08:14 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 11 June 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

 

So which of those is the unfair treatment? The day you get 30% or the day you get 70%?

 

You just have to play 3 battles the 30% days and 10 battles the 70% days ;)







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