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Fr33nzyFighter #1 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:06 PM

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So.. 

Can somebody tell me why the Type 5 was nerfed? I mean, it has no armor, what so ever, all the enemy has to do is load gold and boom, a batchat 25 t has more armor then you, anything goes trough anything, turret is cheese, literally, gun mantlet? Nope, heat goes trough it with no problem, and nobody shoots anything but gold so.. 

 

Ah but wait, maybe the gun is good.. well, it was.. i think? Considering that you do 100-300 dmg every 16 seconds, with HE, and with the AP gun good luck penning anything, or better said good luck hitting anything in the 1st place, load gold if you will, 290 AP pen is crap considering what other tanks get.

 

So why was it nerfed? I get im not a good player but never played a tank that was so utterly useless, i never, ever abandoned a battle while alive, with that piece of trash i did it 10+ times in 70 battles.

 

 

 

Edited by Fr33nzyFighter, 10 June 2020 - 09:08 PM.


Infryndiira #2 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:10 PM

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The problem with the Type 5 was that few tanks could deal with it without loading gold, while it could just load gold HE and auto-aim anywhere for upwards to 900 damage plus injured crew and wrecked modules. In fact, you could outright miss and still wreck other tanks. While the standard gun's premium rounds are comparatively lacking, the standard rounds still come with overmatch and a very, very respectable 257mm penetration.



Fr33nzyFighter #3 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:17 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 10 June 2020 - 09:10 PM, said:

The problem with the Type 5 was that few tanks could deal with it without loading gold, while it could just load gold HE and auto-aim anywhere for upwards to 900 damage plus injured crew and wrecked modules. In fact, you could outright miss and still wreck other tanks. While the standard gun's premium rounds are comparatively lacking, the standard rounds still come with overmatch and a very, very respectable 257mm penetration.

257 pen against another type 5 is not doing much, nor does the 290 pen, and why do people complain about needing to shoot gold? They shoot gold either way, its always the same, i get spotted, shot, normal round, then, i dont even need to guess, its a gold round, no matter what, grille 15? gold, strv? gold, so they nerfed a tank because people needed gold to kill, but now the tank is useless and people still spam gold..in order to deal that HE dmg you would need to expose yourself, which means a HEAT shell will be on its way aimed at your turret.. what was the point? Its slow, it has no armor, it has two useless guns, unless you go fight mediums, which you cant cause if god forbid the mediums are not there you spend the next 7 minutes trying and usually failing to reach the enemy



Spurtung #4 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:17 PM

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Same as most others, really.

 

T110E5, wasn't much used, got overbuffed, people grinded it, then got nerfed.

Maus

Type 5

 

It's a formula WG keeps using to milk money from people speeding up their grind.



Fr33nzyFighter #5 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:21 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 10 June 2020 - 09:17 PM, said:

Same as most others, really.

 

T110E5, wasn't much used, got overbuffed, people grinded it, then got nerfed.

Maus

Type 5

 

It's a formula WG keeps using to milk money from people speeding up their grind.

Why cant they just make a good enough tank? Why the hack they always need to either overbuff it or nerf it to oblivion?

And why would somebody rush to a grind? I play tanks to get the Tier 10, yes, but the tanks along the line are part of the experience as well, i cant imagine people desperate enough that they grind the best tank there is just so their name in purple.

 

 

 



Kdingo #6 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:27 PM

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View PostFr33nzyFighter, on 10 June 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

Why cant they just make a good enough tank? Why the hack they always need to either overbuff it or nerf it to oblivion?

And why would somebody rush to a grind? I play tanks to get the Tier 10, yes, but the tanks along the line are part of the experience as well, i cant imagine people desperate enough that they grind the best tank there is just so their name in purple.

 

 

 

 

People rush the grind cause wg is notorious to release the newest line as op as possible.

People free xp their way to tier x just to be the first ones to enjoy the benefits of a broken tank... until it gets "balanced". Then everyone is crying and grinding/free xping the next line.

 

Its a neverending circle, it gets worse if you also add powercreep and the neglect to care about tank lines released long time ago.



Infryndiira #7 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:34 PM

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View PostFr33nzyFighter, on 10 June 2020 - 10:17 PM, said:

257 pen against another type 5 is not doing much, nor does the 290 pen, and why do people complain about needing to shoot gold? They shoot gold either way, its always the same, i get spotted, shot, normal round, then, i dont even need to guess, its a gold round, no matter what, grille 15? gold, strv? gold, so they nerfed a tank because people needed gold to kill, but now the tank is useless and people still spam gold..in order to deal that HE dmg you would need to expose yourself, which means a HEAT shell will be on its way aimed at your turret.. what was the point? Its slow, it has no armor, it has two useless guns, unless you go fight mediums, which you cant cause if god forbid the mediums are not there you spend the next 7 minutes trying and usually failing to reach the enemy


And that is part of the Type 5's flaw in terms of armour, not the gun. A lot of tier X heavy tanks have similar or less penetration:

  • Object 705A (256)
  • IS-7 (250)
  • IS-4 (258)
  • ST-2 (258)
  • Super Conqueror (259)
  • T110E5 (258)
  • WZ-111-5A (250)
  • 113 (249)
  • E 100 (246)
  • Maus (246)

So, compared to its peers, the Type 5 has a rather competitive standard AP round. In the case of the Type 5, the armour is virtually impenetrable by same-tier heavy tanks that don't shoot gold ammo. With the Type 5's own 257mm penetration, the only "weakspot" is the driver hatch, and that's a 50-50 chance to penetrate; every other surface is a 30% to 45% chance to penetrate at best. Now imagine the numbers with a lower-penetration gun, like the IS-7's or E 100's.

 

When firing higher penetration rounds, such as HEAT from an E 100, the Type 5 becomes a lot easier to penetrate but there is always the chance you will either miss the spot you're aiming for and either miss entirely, or end up bouncing off the Type 5's armour. By comparison, the old Type 5 could just shoot in your general direction, aiming at your centre of mass, and fire a 1450 alpha gold HE shell that would splash you for upwards to 800 damage, kill your driver, damage your ammo rack and fuel tank, and shatter your commander's teacup, literally out-trading you. Not to mention what it could do by penetrating softer targets with its equally ridiculous penetration.

 

For further contrast, the Jagdpanzer E 100, which has a bigger gun than the Type 5's DERP, does less damage with its HE shells on a full penetration. The Type 5 had the second-highest damage HE shells (if we include British 182.9mm HE and HESH) in the tier, with none of the weaknesses of the tanks that had higher-damage HE. And this is, in part, why it got nerfed.



Bulldog_Drummond #8 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:34 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 10 June 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

People rush the grind cause wg is notorious to release the newest line as op as possible.

People free xp their way to tier x just to be the first ones to enjoy the benefits of a broken tank... until it gets "balanced". Then everyone is crying and grinding/free xping the next line.

 

Its a neverending circle, it gets worse if you also add powercreep and the neglect to care about tank lines released long time ago.

 

It's a lot easier and cheaper, and I reckon more fun, not to bother with any of that and just go truffle hunting for effective lower tier tanks, of which there is no shortage.

 



ONE77ZERO13 #9 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:35 PM

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HE triggered people trying to abuse hulldown positions so it got nerfed.

 

now it's a giant garbage can.



Kdingo #10 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:37 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 10 June 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

 

It's a lot easier and cheaper, and I reckon more fun, not to bother with any of that and just go truffle hunting for effective lower tier tanks, of which there is no shortage.

 

 

You sir have the wisdom so many lack, that is just playing tanks you enjoy without a care in the world.



Gremlin182 #11 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:42 PM

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It was not nerfed as such I find it a little better and more interesting to play.

They nerfed the 15cm and buffed the 14cm

 

As it stood there was no reason at all to use the 14 cm gun you always take the 15 cm load up on HE and Premium HE.

Some objected to the extra damage ie 300 extra damage by using premium.

you had 1100 damage with HE and 1400 damage with premium HE still had 75 pen

14cm 249 or 282 pen 600 damage

 

Now i just use the 14cm gun 257 or 290 pen 600 damage makes for a decent tank

If they put the damage for the 15cm back to 1100 I would say the tank had 2 decent guns and ways to play it.

15cm with 75 pen HE or 192 pen HESH would be pretty good, there was  really no need to drop it to 900.



NekoPuffer_PPP #12 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:47 PM

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The Japanese heavy branch, when it was still new, was great.

 

Then they gave the Type 5 a stupidly overpowered derp.

 

With the above reasoning, they decided that ALL tanks in the branch should have their derps neutered, and so they have.

 

Now, the whole line is a waste of time. Such a shame.

 

No other line got so badly butchered as this one, and it truly saddens me.



Fr33nzyFighter #13 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:55 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 10 June 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:


And that is part of the Type 5's flaw in terms of armour, not the gun. A lot of tier X heavy tanks have similar or less penetration:

  • Object 705A (256)
  • IS-7 (250)
  • IS-4 (258)
  • ST-2 (258)
  • Super Conqueror (259)
  • T110E5 (258)
  • WZ-111-5A (250)
  • 113 (249)
  • E 100 (246)
  • Maus (246)

So, compared to its peers, the Type 5 has a rather competitive standard AP round. In the case of the Type 5, the armour is virtually impenetrable by same-tier heavy tanks that don't shoot gold ammo. With the Type 5's own 257mm penetration, the only "weakspot" is the driver hatch, and that's a 50-50 chance to penetrate; every other surface is a 30% to 45% chance to penetrate at best. Now imagine the numbers with a lower-penetration gun, like the IS-7's or E 100's.

 

When firing higher penetration rounds, such as HEAT from an E 100, the Type 5 becomes a lot easier to penetrate but there is always the chance you will either miss the spot you're aiming for and either miss entirely, or end up bouncing off the Type 5's armour. By comparison, the old Type 5 could just shoot in your general direction, aiming at your centre of mass, and fire a 1450 alpha gold HE shell that would splash you for upwards to 800 damage, kill your driver, damage your ammo rack and fuel tank, and shatter your commander's teacup, literally out-trading you. Not to mention what it could do by penetrating softer targets with its equally ridiculous penetration.

 

For further contrast, the Jagdpanzer E 100, which has a bigger gun than the Type 5's DERP, does less damage with its HE shells on a full penetration. The Type 5 had the second-highest damage HE shells (if we include British 182.9mm HE and HESH) in the tier, with none of the weaknesses of the tanks that had higher-damage HE. And this is, in part, why it got nerfed.

I never, ever shot at a heavy tank with the pre nerf he gun and deal more then 500 something damage, usually 300 was all i got, and then again, yes, there are tanks with similar shell penetration as type 5, now add the dispersion and aiming time into the equation and it becomes something else. 



Balc0ra #14 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:57 PM

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Why it was nerfed? Gold HE shell is more or less the reason alone. It did 500 to 600 vs most HTs just auto-aiming at them. And 1300 to 1500 to most paper targets. As in it 1 shotted most lights and meds it did face. The gold HE shell is still in the game. On the Jgpz E-100 as his HE shell. Same pen, same 1400 alpha.

 

As for the AP gun? Well, as far as 15cm go it's not bad. 257 pen is more than the German 15cm's get. As they have 246 iirc. So the Type gets about a 50% chance on the driver's view-port and cupola vs himself. If he does show sides or turn the hull etc. Even 330 HEAT won't always cut it if they buffed to the 265 area that is the highest of the normal tech tree HT pens.



fwhaatpiraat #15 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:57 PM

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Block Quote

 it has no armor, what so ever

 

Strange, since you block a bit over 2000 dmg per game...

Fr33nzyFighter #16 Posted 10 June 2020 - 09:58 PM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 10 June 2020 - 09:47 PM, said:

The Japanese heavy branch, when it was still new, was great.

 

Then they gave the Type 5 a stupidly overpowered derp.

 

With the above reasoning, they decided that ALL tanks in the branch should have their derps neutered, and so they have.

 

Now, the whole line is a waste of time. Such a shame.

 

No other line got so badly butchered as this one, and it truly saddens me.

tfw KV-2 deals more HE damage than a T10 super heavy tank xD

21:06 Added after 7 minute

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 10 June 2020 - 09:57 PM, said:

 

Strange, since you block a bit over 2000 dmg per game...

We speak about a super heavy tank, does 2k average seem much to you? 

 



Kdingo #17 Posted 10 June 2020 - 10:09 PM

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View PostFr33nzyFighter, on 10 June 2020 - 09:58 PM, said:

We speak about a super heavy tank, does 2k average seem much to you? 

 

 

Makes me wonder, what amount would be sufficient for you?



Infryndiira #18 Posted 10 June 2020 - 10:11 PM

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View PostFr33nzyFighter, on 10 June 2020 - 10:55 PM, said:

I never, ever shot at a heavy tank with the pre nerf he gun and deal more then 500 something damage, usually 300 was all i got, and then again, yes, there are tanks with similar shell penetration as type 5, now add the dispersion and aiming time into the equation and it becomes something else. 

But 500 damage still out-trades them and deals module and crew damage. Do you honestly can't see the problem with that?



Fr33nzyFighter #19 Posted 10 June 2020 - 10:15 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 10 June 2020 - 10:09 PM, said:

 

Makes me wonder, what amount would be sufficient for you?

Well, considering that i just blocked 2.7k dmg in a S.Conqueror, which is all but a super heavy, id say that much more.

What is 2k dmg in T10? 4 shots? IF you, by some miracle dont get shot by something with more than 490 alpha.

21:16 Added after 1 minute

View PostInfryndiira, on 10 June 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

But 500 damage still out-trades them and deals module and crew damage. Do you honestly can't see the problem with that?

No, considering that they loaded gold and dealt more than my 300 dmg, all wg did was prevent me from doing that 300 damage, they still pen like they always did.

An consider that i said 500 if i was lucky.



Kdingo #20 Posted 10 June 2020 - 10:22 PM

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View PostFr33nzyFighter, on 10 June 2020 - 10:15 PM, said:

Well, considering that i just blocked 2.7k dmg in a S.Conqueror, which is all but a super heavy, id say that much more.

What is 2k dmg in T10? 4 shots? IF you, by some miracle dont get shot by something with more than 490 alpha

 

Yet there is one problem, the simple conflict with those shooting you and not wanting to waste credits on blocked shoots.

Armor increases your survivability quite a lot, by 2k hp on average, despite heat meta... yet its not sufficient and you want much more.

 

I hope you see the problem here.






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