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Kronos cammo with red cross


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turret_armor #1 Posted 12 June 2020 - 11:39 PM

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Hi all,

 

I noticed a red cross on the new Kronos Camouflage.
Please note the following:

 

The red cross and red crescent emblems are protected symbols under international 

humanitarian law and national laws. Any use that is not expressly authorized by the

Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols constitutes a misuse of the

emblem. Use of these emblems by unauthorized persons is strictly forbidden.

 

thank you for great camouflage ingame. 

Also an external link:
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/01/video-games-arent-allowed-to-use-the-red-cross-symbol-for-health/

 



Private_Miros #2 Posted 12 June 2020 - 11:47 PM

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I'm not 100% sure the cross on the camo would be considered the red cross proper (because of the red circle around it), but if it is, then yes, it would be a violation on the 49 Geneva Conventions and the use of the red cross and the red crescent.

NekoPuffer_PPP #3 Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:12 AM

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You know, I would really, REALLY appreciate you posting an image of the camo in question so we could all know what you're talking about and what it really looks like instead of trying to dig the image out of Google's armpit.

 

Also, that rule sounds like drivel.



Desyatnik_Pansy #4 Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:14 AM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 13 June 2020 - 12:12 AM, said:

You know, I would really, REALLY appreciate you posting an image of the camo in question so we could all know what you're talking about and what it really looks like instead of trying to dig the image out of Google's armpit.

 

Spoiler

 

 



Pansenmann #5 Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:16 AM

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I also have a t-shirt with a red cross on it.

Will I get sued now? :ohmy:

 

PS: this is a game after all



Private_Miros #6 Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:21 AM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 12 June 2020 - 11:12 PM, said:

 

Also, that rule sounds like drivel.

 

I'd hardly call the Geneva Conventions drivel.

 

https://www.icrc.org...ther/57jmbg.htm

 

But that also means that I believe the red circle around the cross is enough not to fall under the rule. Same goes for common place use, such as the ones referring to health.

 

View PostPansenmann, on 12 June 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

I also have a t-shirt with a red cross on it.

Will I get sued now? :ohmy:

 

PS: this is a game after all

 

It's highly likely that the t-shirt does not contain the correct emblem.

 

If it does, then you won't get sued, but any state allowing you to wear it can be held accountable. Should you wear such a shirt in an armed conflict, you are at that point committing a war crime.

 

The misuse of the emblem is seen as a devaluation of the emblem, which the conventions aim to safeguard as a universal sign of humanitarian aid.


Edited by Private_Miros, 13 June 2020 - 12:27 AM.


Balc0ra #7 Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:25 AM

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I mean, the med-kits still uses it. Fairly visible on the large one.

 

I do recall the first game forced to change this was Wolfenstein 3D when it came to Xbox 360 back in 2013. As they did ask to use it, but was denied as it healed the character. But as the rules state, besides written permission, or if it's used for health. I can't say the skin fits the last one. 



MeetriX #8 Posted 13 June 2020 - 01:02 AM

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That is a red plus.

beercritch #9 Posted 13 June 2020 - 01:22 AM

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I only looked at it briefly and thought it was a George cross - but i wasn't paying much attention

NekoPuffer_PPP #10 Posted 13 June 2020 - 01:27 AM

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View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 13 June 2020 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

That looks like a medpack on the camo. The square packaging is visible. Is it not 3D? Hard to tell from this angle.

 

View PostBalc0ra, on 13 June 2020 - 12:25 AM, said:

As they did ask to use it, but was denied as it healed the character. But as the rules state, besides written permission, or if it's used for health.

 

Um, I'm reading conflicting information here. So is it okay to use on actual medkits, or not okay at all, period?

 

What a world...



Balc0ra #11 Posted 13 June 2020 - 01:52 AM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 13 June 2020 - 01:27 AM, said:

Um, I'm reading conflicting information here. So is it okay to use on actual medkits, or not okay at all, period?

 

What a world...

 

 Tbh, I'm more curious if WG has done either to get their med-kits up. As the large one shows it rather well.

 

I know several games use the cross for healing recently. COD WWII comes to mind. Tho like most, they simply change the color of it. They had a white cross with a white circle to show how many med packs you had in the lower-left corner. And the NPC that could give you one, was black on white. Tho for their medics in MP, they used the snake and sword icon on the arm patch.

 

WOT is the only game I can say at the top of my head right now that still has a red cross on their med-kits.

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 13 June 2020 - 01:53 AM.


Kdingo #12 Posted 13 June 2020 - 02:08 AM

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So geneva will declare war on wg if they keep it?

Spurtung #13 Posted 13 June 2020 - 03:27 AM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 12 June 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

I'd hardly call the Geneva Conventions drivel.

 

https://www.icrc.org...ther/57jmbg.htm

 

But that also means that I believe the red circle around the cross is enough not to fall under the rule. Same goes for common place use, such as the ones referring to health.

 

That article concerns use by National Societies, which Wargaming clearly isn't.

 

The circle won't cut it, because the whole logo is still there, putting it inside something won't change what it is: a red cross on a white background.

 

Legally speaking, I believe it falls under trademark infringement.

 

Block Quote

 Commercial use or publication

Commercial use or publication of all or part of documents, photos, film footage, audio records, logos and graphics is strictly prohibited without prior express authorization from the ICRC. Permission for use must be requested from the ICRC or, for agency or freelance photos (indicated in the photo credit) or third-party publications, from the agency, publication or individual concerned. Modifications to ICRC copyright material are not allowed. Be advised that a proof within context or pre-production sample is requested before final approval is given.

 

https://www.icrc.org/en/copyright-and-terms-use

 



StronkiTonki #14 Posted 13 June 2020 - 05:19 AM

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I actually made a joke about copyright when I first saw that camo.

 

Genuinely though, this could become a problem.

 

I know that Doom got forced to change their medkits in later re-releases.

 

Prior:

 

After:


Edited by StronkiTonki, 13 June 2020 - 05:19 AM.


Dava_117 #15 Posted 13 June 2020 - 10:26 AM

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Am I the only one that thinks this is just a meaningless first world problem? 

OMG a videogame uses the red cross symbol for medpack. Now no one will take red cross seriously anymore. :ohmy:



Steiner011 #16 Posted 13 June 2020 - 10:31 AM

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Someone posts real problems in wot - as in EBR issue , prem ammo , artillery - mods dont care.

Someone posts red cross on camo ingame - suddenly 2 moderators appear.

 

Im glad WG has its priorities right.



Kdingo #17 Posted 13 June 2020 - 10:34 AM

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View PostSteiner011, on 13 June 2020 - 10:31 AM, said:

Someone posts real problems in wot - as in EBR issue , prem ammo , artillery - mods dont care.

Someone posts red cross on camo ingame - suddenly 2 moderators appear.

 

Im glad WG has its priorities right.

 

Well its not like moderators are of any more value regarding balancing/issues/perceived issues then any other player.



NekoPuffer_PPP #18 Posted 13 June 2020 - 10:44 AM

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View PostSteiner011, on 13 June 2020 - 10:31 AM, said:

Someone posts real problems in wot - as in EBR issue , prem ammo , artillery - mods dont care.

Someone posts red cross on camo ingame - suddenly 2 moderators appear.

 

Im glad WG has its priorities right.

 

These are forumite moderators. They've been here longer than any other of WG's moderators and do a heck of a better job too. Massive respect.

 

View PostDava_117, on 13 June 2020 - 10:26 AM, said:

Am I the only one that thinks this is just a meaningless first world problem? 

OMG a videogame uses the red cross symbol for medpack. Now no one will take red cross seriously anymore. :ohmy:

 

You're not alone. It sounds like complete nonsense.



Private_Miros #19 Posted 13 June 2020 - 10:47 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 13 June 2020 - 09:26 AM, said:

Am I the only one that thinks this is just a meaningless first world problem? 

OMG a videogame uses the red cross symbol for medpack. Now no one will take red cross seriously anymore. :ohmy:

 

I'd say more of a third world problem, considering the importance of maintaining the red cross as non-combatant and immediately identifiable as such, and therefor meaningless in your eyes.



Dava_117 #20 Posted 13 June 2020 - 10:51 AM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 13 June 2020 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

I'd say more of a third world problem, considering the importance of maintaining the red cross as non-combatant and immediately identifiable as such, and therefor meaningless in your eyes.

 

Red cross don't lose anything because a videogame uses the symbol on medpacks. I would say that it actually remember us how important red cross is, considering that symbol is worldwide considered the symbol of medical aid and first aid.


Edited by Dava_117, 13 June 2020 - 10:52 AM.





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