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The Mountain Pass Dilemma

Mountain Pass Maps Map Balance Scouting Scouts

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donald7773 #1 Posted 13 June 2020 - 07:45 AM

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     I know that I have no history on the EU forums, and very little presence on the NA forums but to begin, a little about me.

I've been playing this game since 2011, I have over 50k games on my NA account, which I gave up on due to the stagnant player base, and have recently transferred to playing on the EU server. At no time in my WOT career (since I've been good enough to notice at least) have I seen such an egregious example of a broken map remain in circulation for so long. 

     Now, I'm not going to go too deep into why I believe Mountain Pass is a stale map, besides the rather bland "you have 3 places to fight at now have fun" approach that WG has had on many of their maps in the past, my main concern is the growing problem that the southern spawn is becoming completely unplayable. 

     So I'm going to break down each of the 3 lanes, how the map plays out (in my experience at least) and identify some of the key issues that I, as a player, have seen.

1. Let's start with the eastern flank, sometimes called the "Ice Road" - This, in my opinion, is one of the two most crucial regions of the map. Allowing the winning team direct access to the enemy cap point or enemy flanks. The south spawn point puts players on the ice road in a corner fight. Simply put, you're poking a corner to get your gun on the enemies, however the northern spawn is fighting from a hull down position. This on it's own isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it gives players an opportunity to play where their vehicle is better suited- for example, a t 32 would perform better on this flank from the northern spawn than it would from the southern spawn, and vice versa for a vehicle like the kv-4. However the major difference comes into play when you consider one main component, elevation. The fact that the northern spawn is in a position where they're not only hull down, but also higher than the enemies means two things, 1. They're less exposed when taking the risk of shooting, and 2. weak points such as commanders hatches, thinner roof plates, engine decks, and arguably upper plates on some vehicles, are easier to hit and penetrate due to the nature of sloped armor. As a counter argument, this route is significantly easier to defend AT the base near the southern spawn with every potato's favorite ledge camping position, and the downfall of many teams who genuinely deserved the win. 

2. The Bridge - Yucky! Yes i know it's there but let's all be frank, no one enjoys being in a spot where they have to either play or cross the bridge. This central point of the map is relatively balanced in my experience. That being said I believe it's completely pointless to push across without a definite advantage or no other route, as it opens you up to fire from the ice road (if that flank is still active) and offers little cover should you get caught out/read by the enemies and you wind up being on anything but the offensive. All that aside, the diving potential is a good laugh. 

3. The place that actually matters, and the entire reason I wanted to make this thread - the western flank. J2/3 and the surrounding grid squares, in my opinion, is where this game is actually won. Not only is it the only place where I feel there is a fair and balanced fight to be had, but is the only flank with viable movement alternatives after winning. On the other flanks, once you win your sector of the map you're left with pushing forwards or falling back, around the entire map, and playing another flank. Winning the western flank, from either spawn, gives you the alternative of moving through the middle to either assist the ice road, get shots on the bridge, or push forwards from an angle that all those window-lickers in S tanks aren't looking at quite yet. These alternative movement options give you a feasible way to dig out defenders on the western flank, again, from either spawn point. Now is where I really get....opinionated so try and bear with me, but which absolute effing walnut decided that it would be a good idea to keep the crossing path for the northern team out of spotting range from any non-suicidal scout, while making it impossible to cross the southern gap without getting spotted? Even in a fast-ish vehicle with solid camo rating, such as the STB-1, you still cannot cross the southern gap without getting lit by any scout who has 3 brain cells to rub together and leverage the massive advantage that their spawn has given their team. I cannot even imagine trying to cross that gap in something as slow as say, an IS7 nowadays. 

It is absolutely incredible that this has been allowed to stay a "feature" for this long. Not only are scouts from the northern spawn able to see across the bowl for people crossing to get into position, but their entire team can sit 50 meters behind them, safely out of range of any scouts that don't cross the bowl, an arguably suicidal play, especially if your team loses the western flank, but they also have 2 usable bushes that keep them from being lit as easily. Now you could theoretically counter the more aggressive of these positions from the ledge at H3/4 but that not only typically will get you lit, as you're literally closer than you were when you were crossing the gap, but will also typically get you shot from some rando on the way to play/defend the bridge. All of this while the scout you intentionally try to counter is able to stay safe from return fire from the rest of your team attempting to cross. This isn't even to mention the other bush that, with a strong crew or binos, is safe from anything except a suiscout or blind firing, with the only downside being you spot the crossers a half second later. 

So one team gets to shoot from safety on their way to the most playable part of the map

The other team gets shot on their way to the most playable part of the map

Not to mention all of us who've had that magical shot from a 212A pen us right as we thought we somehow made it across the gap safely for once. 

 

IDK guys, I feel like we need to be making some noise about this, or maybe I'm totally wrong and just haven't learned the secret to playing mountain pass yet. Let me know, and if you read all of that thanks!

 

TL: DR wHy CaN't I cRoSs ThE gAp WiThOuT bEiNg ShOt? Why is that fair, why isn't there a non-suicidal way to counter light tanks spotting from E3? 

 



ZlatanArKung #2 Posted 13 June 2020 - 08:02 AM

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1: Ice road can be ignored if you so chose. You can easily protect base from the high ground and bushes both sides have, making an attack from ice road into cap extremely costly.

2: Bridge, well, this is the place where you can make most things happen if you manage to cross it.

3: The spawn, top side can ignore this and let enemy push for an easy defense where all pushers die without doing any damage.
South doesn't have this luxury, since they don't have as strong positions to defend a push from there from. This is another spot where you can make advancement, if you spawn north.

The dip, not that useful until you got an ice road fight, and then only useful if enemy don't have tanks looking down.

And North also got a free spotting push that sees everyone crossing that south have no counter to, except blind firing.

I just feel like North have all the fun on this map.

no_skill_bob #3 Posted 13 June 2020 - 08:37 AM

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there maps worse than mountain pass for high tiers - ensk and mines says hello

wsatnutter #4 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:05 AM

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I uunderstand your points Op but I enjoy this map quite a bit as no-skill-bob said

mines and ensk need a re work long before mountain pass btw welcome to the forums



Kdingo #5 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:12 AM

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I actually like the map, its not the best map in world of tanks but at least one of those where you can play a flank without being constantly exposed to crossfire or arty.
At least in a heavy this map is way more enjoyable as prokorovhoa.

Mines is imo one of the worst maps currently followed by karkov.

Nebuched #6 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:13 AM

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Mountain pass is infuriating because it is a bear trap to players who don't know how to cross the open ground safely. Will lose your allies a lot of hp and then you have to think about how to even the odds

donald7773 #7 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:32 AM

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View PostNebuched, on 13 June 2020 - 09:13 AM, said:

Mountain pass is infuriating because it is a bear trap to players who don't know how to cross the open ground safely. Will lose your allies a lot of hp and then you have to think about how to even the odds

Thats actually my point, there is no way to cross the open ground safely from one spawn, while its totally possible to cross safely from the north spawn.

Or to word it better, if the north team has a competent scout, theres no way to cross the massive opening in the south without risking losing half your hp

 



Corrupted_Pling #8 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:38 AM

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Just blind fire the bush and 90% of the time you will hit the light... ez

no_skill_bob #9 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:49 AM

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ok, one tip OP, if you dont know how to cross safely - 1st option, go full red line(not the best option,  2nd - take the road to cross, it has the lower ground, very little of your tank gets exposed, well if you dont play e100 or something ofcourse.

its just that people are crossing it wrong - on the higher ground, fully exposing their tanks, same happens on the other side as well.



Kdingo #10 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:56 AM

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View Postno_skill_bob, on 13 June 2020 - 09:49 AM, said:

ok, one tip OP, if you dont know how to cross safely - 1st option, go full red line(not the best option,  2nd - take the road to cross, it has the lower ground, very little of your tank gets exposed, well if you dont play e100 or something ofcourse.

its just that people are crossing it wrong - on the higher ground, fully exposing their tanks, same happens on the other side as well.

 

This advice should only be followed if you are on my team. If you are on the enemy team please cross on the highground, deadeye will say hi to your fuel tank, once or twice.


Edited by Kdingo, 13 June 2020 - 09:56 AM.


snowlywhite #11 Posted 13 June 2020 - 11:31 AM

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View Postno_skill_bob, on 13 June 2020 - 09:49 AM, said:

ok, one tip OP, if you dont know how to cross safely - 1st option, go full red line(not the best option,  2nd - take the road to cross, it has the lower ground, very little of your tank gets exposed, well if you dont play e100 or something ofcourse.

its just that people are crossing it wrong - on the higher ground, fully exposing their tanks, same happens on the other side as well.

 

you're hull down only 80% of the way. Last part, you ain't hull down. And, personally, I was holding my shots exactly for when you get there :P

 

now it's not the case anymore as I've banned the map. That being said, blindfiring the bush is about the only acceptable option to counter their spotter. Which is rather stupid...



mpf1959 #12 Posted 13 June 2020 - 11:45 AM

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The Mountain Pass Dilemma

 

Yeah, I know it, do I desert or not? :unsure:



Slyspy #13 Posted 13 June 2020 - 11:52 AM

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The only dilemma I had with Mountain Pass was about how quickly I could exclude it. Turns out the answer is "very quickly". 

Gruff_ #14 Posted 13 June 2020 - 03:31 PM

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Welcome to EU, bring burgers, root beer and paragraphs :)

 

Mountain pass is upper midway in the enjoyment factor of maps for me, far worse out there.


Edited by Gruff_, 13 June 2020 - 03:32 PM.





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