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Spotting working as Intended?


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_Anarchistic_ #1 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:02 PM

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so watching Orzanel video on youtube and he was amazed he did not get spotted by a t-54 when he shot the T-54 in his strv 103b at 244m when he was not in cover.

I have jumped onto wotinfo and put T-54 in vs Strv103b on the camo calculator, i gave t-54 no crew skills, no equipment of any kind and I gave Strv best of everything.  According to Wotinfo the strv should be spotted at 344m when firing, i even added the bush the t-54 was in as cover for the strv and its still 257m

if i add optics he should spot the strv firing at 394m, if i fully pimp then its 435m for the T-54 to spot the Strv firing

 

when someone as good as orzanel is surprised what is going on?

 

time stamp on video is 3.20 into the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtck670Zlv4

 

 

i can only assume the bush the 54 was in somehow block his view but according to the stats website even that is not enough

 

any thoughts?

 



Private_Miros #2 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:06 PM

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The T-54's vision was obstructed by the bush in front of him. That has the same effect as if Orzanel was behind a bush (non-transparent) himself.

 

The vision ports are location in the middle of the tank, and the bush just covers slightly more. So, yeah, lucky, but not that strange.

 

I often use the mechanic myself, and shoot when a bush or a tree is somewhere between me and the enemy's turret to remain unspotted, while at any other time he's spot me easily. This is the same principle, just by accident with a bit of luck as the bush didn't cover the whole enemy tank.


Edited by Private_Miros, 22 June 2020 - 02:07 PM.


_Anarchistic_ #3 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:15 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 22 June 2020 - 02:06 PM, said:

The T-54's vision was obstructed by the bush in front of him. That has the same effect as if Orzanel was behind a bush (non-transparent) himself.

 

The vision ports are location in the middle of the tank, and the bush just covers slightly more. So, yeah, lucky, but not that strange.

 

I often use the mechanic myself, and shoot when a bush or a tree is somewhere between me and the enemy's turret to remain unspotted, while at any other time he's spot me easily. This is the same principle, just by accident with a bit of luck as the bush didn't cover the whole enemy tank.

 

 

I  get the mechanics, been playing long enough, but that was too [edited], firing at 244m and remains unspotted, and clearly the website is incorrect as even at its worst that 54 should spot a firing tank

 

tells you everything wrong with 1.0 maps



Private_Miros #4 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:21 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 22 June 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

 

I  get the mechanics, been playing long enough, but that was too [edited], firing at 244m and remains unspotted, and clearly the website is incorrect as even at its worst that 54 should spot a firing tank

 

tells you everything wrong with 1.0 maps

 

From WoTinfo:

 

Distance the enemy will spot you if you are:

stationary - 50.00m.
moving - 117.93m.
shooting - 175.66m.



_Anarchistic_ #5 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:33 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 22 June 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

 

From WoTinfo:

 

Distance the enemy will spot you if you are:

stationary - 50.00m.
moving - 117.93m.
shooting - 175.66m.

 

did you have t54 or strv spotting?

 

i had t54 in first block as strv was not in cover adn wanted to see the t54 spotting the strv 

 



Private_Miros #6 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:47 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 22 June 2020 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

did you have t54 or strv spotting?

 

i had t54 in first block as strv was not in cover adn wanted to see the t54 spotting the strv 

 

 

But that's the thing, from the view point of the T-54 the STRV is in cover. That bush obscures his view, so for the T-54 is it as if the Strv is shooting from behind a dense bush.

 

That's the same situation as I described when you fire at someone who's view ports are just passing by a tree or a bush. From their point and the mechanics point it is you who is in cover at that point.



_Anarchistic_ #7 Posted 22 June 2020 - 02:56 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 22 June 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

 

But that's the thing, from the view point of the T-54 the STRV is in cover. That bush obscures his view, so for the T-54 is it as if the Strv is shooting from behind a dense bush.

 

That's the same situation as I described when you fire at someone who's view ports are just passing by a tree or a bush. From their point and the mechanics point it is you who is in cover at that point.

 

surely though the bush would be tranparent or partially transparent from his point of view as he will be within the 15m double bush radius?

 

hence why i did the check as him in the bush not the other way around?



Search_Warrant #8 Posted 23 June 2020 - 07:47 AM

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Spotting in game has always been questionable. but we play a game where a maus in a bush can be invisible to high viewrange scouts with max crews with food coz.. reasons.

Geno1isme #9 Posted 23 June 2020 - 10:38 AM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 22 June 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

 

surely though the bush would be tranparent or partially transparent from his point of view as he will be within the 15m double bush radius?

 

hence why i did the check as him in the bush not the other way around?

The question is wether you enabled the "less than 15m away" option or not. It is hard to tell from the video where the T-54 was in relation to the bush.

 

Another possibility (in theory at least) is that the viewrange of the T-54 was reduced by other means at that moment:

- destroyed observation device

- dead commander

- sub 100% crew

 



Elefantzeel #10 Posted 23 June 2020 - 10:45 AM

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They need to rework spotting system because it is flawed af. They have to balance better how tanks spot you, from where, how etc. But we need to wait for another "pack full of content". haha

Slyspy #11 Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:10 PM

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View PostElefantzeel, on 23 June 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

They need to rework spotting system because it is flawed af. They have to balance better how tanks spot you, from where, how etc. But we need to wait for another "pack full of content". haha

 

The spotting system, like most of the in game mechanics, makes a lot more sense if you think of WoT as a live-action war game rather than a simulation or a fps.



ZlatanArKung #12 Posted 23 June 2020 - 02:35 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 22 June 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

so watching Orzanel video on youtube and he was amazed he did not get spotted by a t-54 when he shot the T-54 in his strv 103b at 244m when he was not in cover.

I have jumped onto wotinfo and put T-54 in vs Strv103b on the camo calculator, i gave t-54 no crew skills, no equipment of any kind and I gave Strv best of everything.  According to Wotinfo the strv should be spotted at 344m when firing, i even added the bush the t-54 was in as cover for the strv and its still 257m

if i add optics he should spot the strv firing at 394m, if i fully pimp then its 435m for the T-54 to spot the Strv firing

 

when someone as good as orzanel is surprised what is going on?

 

time stamp on video is 3.20 into the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtck670Zlv4

 

 

i can only assume the bush the 54 was in somehow block his view but according to the stats website even that is not enough

 

any thoughts?

 

Working as intended, yes.

 

Is it working in a good way, no. Bushes give way to much camo, they should just be halved. 



Balc0ra #13 Posted 23 June 2020 - 04:24 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 22 June 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

surely though the bush would be tranparent or partially transparent from his point of view as he will be within the 15m double bush radius?

 

hence why i did the check as him in the bush not the other way around?

 

You're assuming that he was the one spotting the T-54. If so, you could start to ask questions. But I suspect his T-54 spotted him when he moved up for Orzanel sightlines to be in play behind those bushes.

 

As WG have pointed out. No bush or tree gives camo cover vs their shape exactly, but rather with squares and circles that are bigger than the object they represent. So the gap you see in the tree there when he aims at him. Might still give cover as such. And even tho Orzanel is in the open. And if the T-54 is 15m or more behind that cover, and the camo box on the tree covers the T-54. It could be enough to give Orzanel 50% extra camo vs the T-54's sightlines for him to get spotted if you will.



LethalWalou #14 Posted 23 June 2020 - 04:38 PM

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View PostSlyspy, on 23 June 2020 - 11:10 AM, said:

 

The spotting system, like most of the in game mechanics, makes a lot more sense if you think of WoT as a live-action war game rather than a simulation or a fps.

 

And it's important to remember that it's a game. With game mechanics the difference of being spotted or not is rough, as in at 250m away you are unspotted but  1m closer you are spotted. There isn't basically lenience in the mechanics. If your spotting point is obscured by a section that counts as bush, you won't spot the enemy tank.


Edited by LethalWalou, 23 June 2020 - 04:39 PM.





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