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Wheeled Vehicle Rebalancing

Supertest Wheeled Vehicles Balancing

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Dwigt #1 Posted 23 June 2020 - 11:46 AM

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Greeting commanders,
 
In one of our previous developers streams, we announced that we are working on rebalancing wheeled vehicles and today we want to talk about these planned changes.  

Description of the Problem:
One of the key problems for most players is that the wheeled vehicles survive for too long despite being under massive enemy fire while actively spotting. This is due to both their small size and their high mobility and dynamics. Another aspect is that the wheeled vehicles are almost impossible to immobilize because they do not stop when their suspension is damaged. Instead, they simply slow down a little. The effect of damaged wheels on vehicle dynamics is relatively low. For a noticeable effect, several wheels should be damaged.
 
All this creates a situation in which a player, in order to effectively engage a wheeled vehicle, should fully focus on a single objective at the cost of ignoring other aspects of the battle or forgetting other missions. A small window for causing damage, the difficulty of making an accurate shot, and other random factors make destroying a wheeled vehicle a non-trivial task. If we assume that the opponent is a very experienced player who can maximize all the advantages of a wheeled vehicle, then it becomes very difficult to counter this vehicle type.
 
In order to balance the wheeled vehicles and reduce their survivability, we want to do the following:  
Increase the effect of damage to the suspension to cause the vehicle's behavior to change, slowing it down
Slightly reduce the characteristics of the imbalanced vehicles by reducing their firepower and mobility
 
Adjusting the Mechanics:
We want to approach the problem described above from two directions. First, we’ll make changes to the mechanics of causing damage to wheels. Previously, a damaged wheel affected only the dynamics, not the current speed, of the vehicle. So if you kept moving without losing speed, the damaged wheels wouldn't affect the behavior of the vehicle too much. But if you slowed down (for example, when making a quick turn), the damaged wheels would cause lower dynamics, making it more difficult to build up speed again.
We want to test the adjustment of this mechanic. Now, if the wheels are damaged, both vehicle dynamics and speed will noticeably decrease. Damage to a drive wheel will reduce the overall power of the vehicle, and damage to a traction wheel will affect the speed. Considering that almost all wheeled vehicles in the game have all-wheel drive, damage to any wheel (both retracted and lowered) will cause a reduction in dynamics. However, the speed of the vehicle will decrease only when the damaged wheels are currently touching the ground. 
Moreover, damage to the first wheel will have the greatest impact on the vehicle's speed and dynamics. For each subsequently damaged wheel, the overall effect will increase, but less abruptly.
 
A simple example: The Panhard EBR 105 moves at a speed of 95 km/h. After taking damage to the first wheel, it quickly loses speed to 68 km/h. And after taking damage to another wheel, the speed drops to 52 km/h. This will make the vehicle much more vulnerable, thereby reducing its chance of survival when under heavy enemy fire.
 
post-502699962-0-09438000-1592998497.gif
 
 
Rebalancing Technical Characteristics:
The second aspect of the test changes to the wheeled vehicles is the rebalance of their technical characteristics. We want to slightly decrease the gun handling parameters, as well as the acceleration and top speed of some vehicles. 
Our goal is to maintain the distinctive gameplay of wheeled vehicles without causing them to resemble a branch of tracked light tanks. We expect that a small decrease in the technical characteristics, in combination with the change to the mechanic of causing damage to the wheels, will have a sufficient effect on reducing the battle performance of these vehicles.
 
You can find the list of changes below. Please note that the adjustments are not final. 
Panhard EBR 105
  •     Dispersion during movement: 0.06 -> 0.08
  •     Dispersion on hull traverse: 0.06 -> 0.08
  •     Dispersion on turret traverse: 0.03 -> 0.04
  •     Aiming time: 1.2 -> 1.4
  •     View range: 350 -> 340
  •     Engine power: 750 -> 720
  •     Top speed in Rapid mode: 95 -> 91
  •     Reverse speed in Rapid mode: 70 -> 65
  •     Chance of engine fire: 0.1 -> 0.15
 
Panhard EBR 90
  •     Reverse speed in the Rapid mode: 85 -> 83
  •     Reverse speed in the Rapid mode: 85 -> 83
  •     Engine power (top): 580 -> 560
 
Conclusion
We believe that such changes will affect the overall performance of the wheeled vehicles in battles. The role of the vehicles won't change. They'll remain effective at active scouting, but they'll cause less damage to enemies (especially from a distance) and lose a little from their dynamics and top speed. You'll have to play more carefully in these vehicles, and the consequences of taking damage will be more serious than they are now. 
 
Please note that this is only the first test iteration of the planned changes. Note that all the above adjustments are not final.
We look forward to your feedback!


ZaRoX_UltrA #2 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:23 PM

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baratoz1701 #3 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:25 PM

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This will help, it probs wont go into the game

 

Id like to see assistance for damage caused after you damage a wheel tho



Search_Warrant #4 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:32 PM

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Will the speed bleeding be across ALL wheeled tanks? and if so will it effect the PREMIUM? NO? thought not. u cant nerf it and will remain the most broken tier 8 light forever, after the nerfs it might even better than the tier 9 and 10 because of the speed bleed it wont recieve. nice job WG. shoot yourself in the foot some more. have another crayon.

 

Also these nerfs are pathetic. not a drop in the ocean. tracked lights are still worthless no matter how much u nerf wheelies. they are better in every aspect that matters, speed, size, dumb HE shells, no detrack instant death like track lights.

 

admit you failed WG. admit you killed tracked lights forever. my favourite class type is dead because of you.



SlyHuntsman #5 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:34 PM

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View Postbaratoz1701, on 24 June 2020 - 01:25 PM, said:

This will help, it probs wont go into the game

 

Id like to see assistance for damage caused after you damage a wheel tho

This, the amount of times I hit the wheels for 0 dmg but then they slow enough for allies to decimate and I get nothing is too much to count.

13:36 Added after 2 minute

Maybe instead you should actually buff the top speed, in line with historical accuracy cause we know WG LOVE to make things "historically accurate". And take that engine back down to the 200HP it should be, not over 700 :teethhappy:

 (from Wikipedia)


Edited by SlyHuntsman, 24 June 2020 - 02:38 PM.


DarkaholicSaiko #6 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:41 PM

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This is "we completely trash it" only WG would call that "balance" 

Alysanne_ #7 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:50 PM

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Should've just removed the autoaim system from all the ebr's compleatly (most broken mechanic in combination with the dispersion values), nerf the HE pen a bit, tune the top speed a bit as well as the wheel mechanics but not as much that they have done on this iteration. just my thoughts as an EBR player. 

MaxandChloe4ever #8 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:51 PM

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I think these nerfs are too hard. Nerfing the top speed, engine power, chance to get set on fire is fine, but why nerf its view range, when it is already not very good in the first place. You can only get just 445m view range, if you are using coated optics, vents and coffee, and that is if your crew has BIA and both vision skills fully trained up. I am already forgoing v stabs on my EBR 105, just to get to 445m view range, with its gun handling getting nerfed, do I have to forgo the rammer and put back v stabs? By then my DPM would be pretty much the same as the Manticore, and we all know how good the DPM is on that tank.

 


Edited by MaxandChloe4ever, 24 June 2020 - 06:35 PM.


Dwigt #9 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:52 PM

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View PostSlyHuntsman, on 24 June 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:

This, the amount of times I hit the wheels for 0 dmg but then they slow enough for allies to decimate and I get nothing is too much to count.

13:36 Added after 2 minute

Maybe instead you should actually buff the top speed, in line with historical accuracy cause we know WG LOVE to make things "historically accurate". And take that engine back down to the 200HP it should be, not over 700 :teethhappy:

 (from Wikipedia)

Should we also buff the speed up to 115km/h? :sceptic:

 

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 24 June 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:

Will the speed bleeding be across ALL wheeled tanks? and if so will it effect the PREMIUM? NO? thought not. u cant nerf it and will remain the most broken tier 8 light forever, after the nerfs it might even better than the tier 9 and 10 because of the speed bleed it wont recieve. nice job WG. shoot yourself in the foot some more. have another crayon.

 

Also these nerfs are pathetic. not a drop in the ocean. tracked lights are still worthless no matter how much u nerf wheelies. they are better in every aspect that matters, speed, size, dumb HE shells, no detrack instant death like track lights.

 

admit you failed WG. admit you killed tracked lights forever. my favourite class type is dead because of you.

We wanted to keep their characteristics without removing it from the game. These changes will make them easier to deal with. They do not have the armor and can't spot passively like other LTs.



voodoospirit #10 Posted 24 June 2020 - 02:53 PM

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tracked lights have been killed when they put t9 and t10 lights...so dont act surprised.

with all those nerf, it will be simple, EBR willbe played like a mobile td /firesupport unit like the lynx, they will deal asmuch damages as before but u wont be able to shoot them because they wont approach or suicidal spot.



Dwigt #11 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:01 PM

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View Postvoodoospirit, on 24 June 2020 - 01:53 PM, said:

tracked lights have been killed when they put t9 and t10 lights...so dont act surprised.

with all those nerf, it will be simple, EBR willbe played like a mobile td /firesupport unit like the lynx, they will deal asmuch damages as before but u wont be able to shoot them because they wont approach or suicidal spot.

Then you will be missing an important role in the team and no one will be scouting for your arties or TDs
 



69CY #12 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:03 PM

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seems pretty good at glance, but I'll wait to see this in action if it hits the testservers before I form an opinion on the changes at least the issue with the ebrs is addressed by WG finally, so either way seems like a step in the right direction.

Edited by 69CY, 24 June 2020 - 03:05 PM.


Search_Warrant #13 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:05 PM

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View PostDwigt, on 24 June 2020 - 01:52 PM, said:

We wanted to keep their characteristics without removing it from the game. These changes will make them easier to deal with. They do not have the armor and can't spot passively like other LTs.

Removing them from the game would simply result in the prem wheelie staying here to ruin tier 8, the perfect tier with all them premium tracked light tanks that are completely outclassed by it. so removing them would do nothing at this point. the damage is done.

 

Also my tracked lights dont have armor (what light has armor?) and some lights with tracks have terrible base viewrange. my EVEN90 has like 380, thats a tier 8 LIGHT TANK. with a KV2 gun handling GIMPED 90 cal with only 220 alpha! the engine so bad the acceleration is terrible! it has the WORST HP POOL in tier 8 at only 900hp! the wheelies HAVE MORE! yet they are FASTER?.

 

My EVEN90 is useless with these wheelies around. why doesent my gun aim like there's? why cant my tank instantly reach top speed? why cant i autoaim without looking at someone? why does my tracked light tank exist? why did you waste everyones hard earned money purchasing premium light tanks only for you to makes them worthless?!

 

I WANT MY MONEY BACK.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 24 June 2020 - 03:06 PM.


WindSplitter1 #14 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:12 PM

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These new statistics are too hard on the WV.

Speed and View Range should not be touched in any way as they are essential for the Light Tank to perform as Armour is for the Heavy Tank.

 

Classic Light Tanks already struggle with both: they are not as fast as they were before and, increased engine power does not help when vehicles from other classes are equally as fast. Likewise, Medium Tanks have comparable view range.

 

Tracked LTs need to be improved (buffed) so as they are on par with the Wheeled Vehicle, which has acceptable characteristics. Currently, they are not competitive due to their slow Rate of Fire (not DPM), poor accuracy, inadequate gun handling and in many cases, insufficient speed.

 

 

The wording of this article also worries me.

It seems as WG wants Wheeled Vehicles, and Light Tanks as a whole, to become mere targets rather than having a meaningful contribution to the battle. Proper stats are required for them to perform, which now, are anything but.

I would advice toning down these rebalance changes to a more acceptable level (namely, the speed and gun accuracy).



Zagy_BG #15 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:15 PM

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Finally this wheeled [edited] will get some well-deserved butchering. Personally I think these should have never been introduced in the game because they are not tanks.

 

I will also suggest that you make the rapid mode a timed boost feature - lets say 60 or 90 seconds, then the speed will drop to a more reasonable number and it should need some time to recharge.

 

Although this will not fix the problem with the premium T8 wheeled [edited]- I think they will become even more numerous.


Edited by Homer_J, 24 June 2020 - 11:09 PM.
Bypassing profanity filter


Bornstaziel #16 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:19 PM

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ONLY 18 months to see they are broken.
18 month to analyze.
WG be like : "Okay boys, we had enough, nerf it to the ground."

I don't even blame them, I think wheelis are really similar to arti. It either really broken/unfair or completely useless, because it's not adpated to the game.
I would have touch the tendancy to absorbs shells and either DPM/HE or accuracy on the move. Not viewrange, speed, aimtime.

 

EDIT: After thinking a bit, just nerf drastically the potential to fire on the move, and the camo in rapidmod. And delete this derpass HE.


Edited by Bornstaziel, 24 June 2020 - 03:50 PM.


kaneloon #17 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:25 PM

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Nice for a start ! I'll play again Wot then.

When is it expected ?

 

Btw you put twice the same sentence :

 

Panhard EBR 90

    Reverse speed in the Rapid mode: 85 -> 83

    Reverse speed in the Rapid mode: 85 -> 83



1Stronk #18 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:27 PM

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this will do nothing to combat the problem

https://clips.twitch...cDootWholeWheat


Edited by 1Stronk, 24 June 2020 - 03:28 PM.


kaneloon #19 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:30 PM

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View PostBornstaziel, on 24 June 2020 - 02:19 PM, said:

ONLY 18 months to see they are broken.
18 month to analyze.
WG be like : "Okay boys, we had enough, nerf it to the ground."

I don't even blame them, I think this arti is really similar to arti. It either really broken/unfair or completely useless, because it's not adpated to the game.

 

Same with Type 5 : the most aware players did enough to statpad and complete campains, casuals will wake up too late to feed themselves ;)



tajj7 #20 Posted 24 June 2020 - 03:55 PM

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Too much, they are vehicles that are NOT overperforming, I get the slowing them down more when they lose wheels that is fine, that makes the reckless players get more correctly punished. 

 

But nerfing the worst view range on tier 10, nerfing their guns which have terrible DPM and penetration as it is? Nerfing the speed which is the only real thing they have? Just butchering them and making them useless because lots of bad players whine instead of adapting. 

 

So basically you want no competitive tier 10 light vehicles then? 

 

You can basically add them to the trash pile of useless tier 10 vehicles, meanwhile no nerf for the 279e that makes players overperform by 8-9%. no nerf to the chieftain, no nerf to the bobject, pathetic nerfs to the 430U, no nerfs for the Russian heaviums that make mediums pretty much obsolete.

 

It's pretty clear WG only want us basically driving IS7s, 430Us, 277s, 279es etc. on tier 10, basically armoured Russian tanks that are also very mobile, have excellent gun handling, alpha, DPM, view range, basically can do everything. 







Also tagged with Supertest, Wheeled, Vehicles, Balancing

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