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[Sandbox] A New Round of Equipment 2.0 Testing Kicks Off June 25


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vanderkat #121 Posted 25 June 2020 - 10:26 PM

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View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 25 June 2020 - 09:28 PM, said:

I sill think tier 1-3 is going to be a complete and utter clusterfook. The people who need the advantages of equipment most (beginners) are the ones who will end up worse of against higher tiers who already have better tanks.

Totally agree .......

 

View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 25 June 2020 - 09:28 PM, said:

........... WG should make it so that once you reach a certain personal rating lower tiers automatically lock.

At first glance this may seem like a good idea, however the drawback is that if a player reaches that 'certain personal rating' by following one specific line on the tech tree, they'd then be unable to work up a new line starting from the bottom tier.

 



ares354 #122 Posted 25 June 2020 - 11:20 PM

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Remove Rammer and Wents if you want to put new equipment. Maybe then it will make sense to take other pice of equiment. 

grasho #123 Posted 25 June 2020 - 11:27 PM

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I’m disappointed to see that we are charged gold for not making changes (you are charged 10 gold to demount equipment to see how different equipment affects the tank’s parameters, and that gold is not returned if you decide to make no changes).  This is nothing more than a money grab by WG and is rather disgusting.


As for the new new equipment, it still fails to support diversity.  For example, I have two equipment setups for my scouts. With the new equipment, I’ll have two equipment set ups for my scout.

 

Meds and Heavies will have (like now) vents and rammer plus one other.  That “one other” will be spall liner, gun layer, or stabs.  Just like now.

 

Open TDs will go from nets, binos and rammer to nets, binos and rammer.  Closed TDs will have vents, rammer and one other.  Just like now.

 

SPGs will have rammer, net and vents (if closed) or gun layer (if open).  I see no reason to change.

 

Wheelies will be vents, stabs and rotation.

 

Overall, there will no greater diversity.

 

As for the equipment itself:  

Vents - sill the first choice for every tank (as now).

Rotation - In competition with Gun Layer, Improved Aiming and Stabs.  The bonuses are small (in comparison to the other 3) so probably only useful  for “rush” play styles (e.g. wheelies). I can see this becoming part of a (non-diverse) wheelie paradigm.

Gun Layer - 2nd or 3rd choice for slow aiming tanks (as now)

Improved aiming - in competition with gun layer.  10% faster aiming is easy to understand, 7% change to the aiming circle is complicated, so why spend gold trying it out?  Players will standardise, stick with current equipment investment and that standard will be the easy to understand gun layer option.

Vertical stabs - 2nd or 3rd choice for flanking tanks.  Same as now.
Spall Liners - Those using them now will still use them under equip 2.0. 
Hardening - in competition with Spall Liners.  Only useful at niche times (perma-tracked and “take one more hit” situation) whilst spall liner is useful all of the time (HE is in every game).

Modified Config - Why?  Again, it’s equipment that will only make a difference in a few games, so why would I choose it instead of equipment that makes a difference in every game.  It’s why I never use a wet ammorack at the moment.

Camo net - in competition with exhaust system (stationary bonus vs smaller mobile bonus).  It comes down to the player’s preference - Passive scout from a bush or passive scout in the open.  It won’t really make much difference to anyone’s play style, just their position.

Optics - same use as now.

Vision System - in competition with optics and binos.  Optics and binos will win - they provide a spotting bonus in all circumstances whilst vision system only in certain circumstances.

Improved radio.  Why?  I have ~240 tanks, 91k games and 8 years playing, and have never felt the need to train crew with the “call for vengeance” skill.  2s extra spotting is another niche skill; players will have higher priorities for their limited 3 slots.  It risks breaking the game by adding even more randomness, and will just result in nerfing tracked lights into further insignificance (the obvious behaviour to mitigate the possibility of being visible for longer is to drive to the back of the map then count to 10 before returning.  This will reduce the support tracked lights can provide).

Turbo - useful for slow tanks, and will become part if a new (non-diverse) standard set up for the crawlers.

 

All in all, I feel the second iteration again fails to deliver WG’s stated aims.  It also fails to address the huge problems that remain unchanged from the first iteration: low tier tanks encountering fully equipped higher tiers, transition design destroying existing player investment, blatant WG money grab, lack of equipment set-up diversity and additional complexity.

 

All in all, a rather pathetic effort from WG.

 

 


Edited by grasho, 25 June 2020 - 11:35 PM.


MarveII #124 Posted 25 June 2020 - 11:30 PM

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If any of these new equipment gets added to the game it would only be fair if all the improved equipment could be demounted freely. It is very expensive to demount improved equipment and I would have mounted different equipment instead of improved equipment if I had the possibility to choose from the newly proposed array of equipments. Standard equipment should also be demounted freely but it doesn't cost as much. I don't think people buy gold to demount standard equipment so it is unecessary to demand gold for every demount but that is a different topic.

Firefox69 #125 Posted 26 June 2020 - 12:28 AM

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I've downloaded the client, but cannot log in. It doesn't accept my password. Any way of sorting this?

Wildcatze #126 Posted 26 June 2020 - 05:13 AM

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The transparency effect of the right panel describing the characteristics of the tank inside the garage needs to be reduced because it makes it hard to read the vehicle characteristics with the current transparency level.

Pansenmann #127 Posted 26 June 2020 - 07:46 AM

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this is just plain wrong

that one now has to pay $$ to demount binocs and/or camonet to use it on a different tank.
 

Spoiler

 

There is no need to test further until this demounting cost error is corrected.

 

also:

 

* If a tank already has modules equipped but in the "wrong" slot
there is no way to "move" the equip to the bonus slot without at least demounting which cost 20 golds.

* it needs way more mouse clicks to select equipment.

 


Edited by Pansenmann, 26 June 2020 - 08:12 AM.


HMS_Birmingham #128 Posted 26 June 2020 - 09:07 AM

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View Postgrasho, on 25 June 2020 - 11:27 PM, said:

 

Improved radio.  Why?  I have ~240 tanks, 91k games and 8 years playing, and have never felt the need to train crew with the “call for vengeance” skill.  2s extra spotting is another niche skill; players will have higher priorities for their limited 3 slots. 

 

 

 

At first glance the call for vengeance +2 second skill seems pointless but when used as it was intended it is suprisingly a very strong skill to have and one that many players underestimate. Add to this skill a bonus of +2 seconds in total using a new radio which again you become unlit 2 seconds sooner it results in an effective 6 seconds advantage overall. That means even on meds or TD's you can poke and spot enemy, immediately pull behind cover count to ten and then see them through the dense vegitation for an additional 6 seconds pumping shots in to them while they have no clue where you are as they (unless equipped with new commader vision system)  either never spotted you or did and lost your silhouette 6 seconds sooner than you do theirs. Sure the enemy can blind fire but they cannot guarentee hitting you.

 

Now say with this same set up, skills and radio an EBR105's will spot you and keep you lit for a total of 14 seconds. Bear in mind your 6th sense went off 3 seconds into that, so arty may already (with new equipment and bonus catagories) be aiming at you and for a further 11 seconds your going to get pummeled by arty along with every other member of the enemy team who has sight of you. The ebr dissapeared 2 second earlier so you lost sight of him at 8 seconds and have no idea where he is to prepare to counter his return to re-light you. If an EBR player is to concentrate on lighting people and not trying to shoot at things then the radio coupled with COV skill can gain them an awful lot of spotting assit damage as I have found.



grasho #129 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:01 AM

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View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 26 June 2020 - 08:07 AM, said:

 

At first glance the call for vengeance +2 second skill seems pointless but when used as it was intended it is suprisingly a very strong skill to have and one that many players underestimate. Add to this skill a bonus of +2 seconds in total using a new radio which again you become unlit 2 seconds sooner it results in an effective 6 seconds advantage overall. That means even on meds or TD's you can poke and spot enemy, immediately pull behind cover count to ten and then see them through the dense vegitation for an additional 6 seconds pumping shots in to them while they have no clue where you are as they (unless equipped with new commader vision system)  either never spotted you or did and lost your silhouette 6 seconds sooner than you do theirs. Sure the enemy can blind fire but they cannot guarentee hitting you.

 

Now say with this same set up, skills and radio an EBR105's will spot you and keep you lit for a total of 14 seconds. Bear in mind your 6th sense went off 3 seconds into that, so arty may already (with new equipment and bonus catagories) be aiming at you and for a further 11 seconds your going to get pummeled by arty along with every other member of the enemy team who has sight of you. The ebr dissapeared 2 second earlier so you lost sight of him at 8 seconds and have no idea where he is to prepare to counter his return to re-light you. If an EBR player is to concentrate on lighting people and not trying to shoot at things then the radio coupled with COV skill can gain them an awful lot of spotting assit damage as I have found.


Other skills are a higher priority for crew training. COV is a 4th skill choice at best.
 

But the play style you highlight has two possible results for the opposing team:

 

a) retreat as quickly as possible then do nothing for 10 seconds, rinse and repeat.  The team becomes static back line campers and encourages toxic blame chats.

b) do nothing to counter the situation and the team gets shredded meaning quick unbalanced games as a result of a single tank’s setup, and encourages toxic blame chats.

 

It’s a potential game breaker that will increase poor play styles, uneven results and quick useless matches (for the losing side).

 


Edited by grasho, 26 June 2020 - 10:02 AM.


Galaxy_class #130 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:17 AM

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Some observations from some breif testing last night:

 

IS7 speed builds still seem viable. Grousers, Turbo and Bounty vents along with removed speed governors, health and repair kits do the job although you lose the anti-tracking equipment. Grousers actually seem good enough to use without being in a bonus slot. 

 

Commanders vision system seems completely broken. Tried it in an ELC EVEN 90 game in the scouting slot with binocs and low exhaust and was able to spot any medium and heavy attempting to move behind bushes and trees. Also never got spotted until I fired my gun, (probably people dropping coated optics though). 



TTG1 #131 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:35 AM

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I hoped for many equipment slots for finetuning my tank, but I can live with that. Second iteration looks much better. I like merged equipment. There are still some things worth to consider.

 

1. Allow each vehicle type to choose from two categories of equipment for bonus slot.

That will allow some diversity and will suite different playstyles. For example attack cannons are played differently than other tank destroyers.

- Heavy tanks: survivability/mobility

- Medium tanks: mobility/survivability

- Light tanks: scouting/mobility

- Tank destroyers: firepower/survivability

- SPGs: firepower/(mobility)

 

2. Apply this changes from tier V.

Tier V do not meet tier III anymore and professional sealclubbing vehicles like T67 could be nerfed separately.

But there are quite many premium vehicles, which are sold for gold, real money or bonds. Tier V premium vehicles are quite affordable for beginners and it was even my choice to buy tier V premium vehicle first.

If I invest real money into my first higher tier premium tank and find out I got inferior goods, I would feel disappointed. If seller cheat me once, I would think hard, if I should support this seller with my money anymore.

 

3. Make binoculars, camouflage net, toolbox removable for credits.

Equipment, which was previously removable for free should be removed for some small fee, for example 10K silver. That will not ruin the beginners and will prevent using 1 set of equipment for all vehicles across different battlefields.

 



HMS_Birmingham #132 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:45 AM

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View Postgrasho, on 26 June 2020 - 10:01 AM, said:


Other skills are a higher priority for crew training. COV is a 4th skill choice at best.
 

But the play style you highlight has two possible results for the opposing team:

 

a) retreat as quickly as possible then do nothing for 10 seconds, rinse and repeat.  The team becomes static back line campers and encourages toxic blame chats.

b) do nothing to counter the situation and the team gets shredded meaning quick unbalanced games as a result of a single tank’s setup, and encourages toxic blame chats.

 

It’s a potential game breaker that will increase poor play styles, uneven results and quick useless matches (for the losing side).

 

 

I'm glad you agree with the point I was attempting to make about the new radio + COV. COV alone is a strong skill when used as it was intended and +2 remains balanced enough not to encourage every player to have it as their first skill and so result in the game play you above mention. Once you start to extend the potential beyond 2 seconds then as you gathered....... "It’s a potential game breaker that will increase poor play styles" no doubt being abused by those red line damage stat padders and players who are simply terrified of being spotted and shot.



Bordhaw #133 Posted 26 June 2020 - 11:37 AM

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View PostPansenmann, on 26 June 2020 - 06:46 AM, said:

this is just plain wrong

that one now has to pay $$ to demount binocs and/or camonet to use it on a different tank.
 

Spoiler

 

There is no need to test further until this demounting cost error is corrected.

 

also:

 

* If a tank already has modules equipped but in the "wrong" slot
there is no way to "move" the equip to the bonus slot without at least demounting which cost 20 golds.

* it needs way more mouse clicks to select equipment.

 


:medal:



MiNim333 #134 Posted 26 June 2020 - 02:27 PM

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I feel that there is something wrong with the Six Sence. It always lid when I get hit not before or after I am dead.

Falconer210 #135 Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:37 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 26 June 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

this is just plain wrong

that one now has to pay $$ to demount binocs and/or camonet to use it on a different tank.

 

There is no need to test further until this demounting cost error is corrected.

 

also:

 

* If a tank already has modules equipped but in the "wrong" slot
there is no way to "move" the equip to the bonus slot without at least demounting which cost 20 golds.

* it needs way more mouse clicks to select equipment.

 

 

Agreed. This is pure and utter greed from Wargaming's side.

WG: For your information, trying to bleed your starting players for every penny they've got is a BAD idea. That way there will be FEWER players starting your game.

 

Binocs, cammonet and toolbox should remain free to demount because starting players need something to keep costs down.

 

Also: having demounting costs  on your equipment GUARANTEES that you will have the same bloody setups in every tank you meet. Since it cost MONEY to change.

 

I swear, a demented sheep with astma will do a better job than you guys.


Edited by Falconer210, 26 June 2020 - 03:38 PM.


Maltratatoru #136 Posted 26 June 2020 - 04:28 PM

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View PostMiNim333, on 26 June 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

I feel that there is something wrong with the Six Sence. It always lid when I get hit not before or after I am dead.

it takes 3 seconds to get lit , so when you shoot, go back in cover. if the sixth sense doesn't get lit, then go back again, and shoot



HMS_Birmingham #137 Posted 26 June 2020 - 06:30 PM

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Someone should tell some of the players on the sandbox server that it is indeed a sandbox server and people are supposed to be testing the new equipment and offering feedback.

 

Almost every other game some plonks have capped with half the teams remaining :facepalm: Or some total nesbit has raged abuse at the rest of the team because we were loosing and they simply cannot grasp the reality of loosing even on a test server where their stat padding WN8 will suffer none the less for it.

 

I think WG should forget all these improvements to the game and offer councelling to all those folk they have RNG, fixed turbo battled, grind after grind, frustrated into wot insanity

 


Edited by HMS_Birmingham, 26 June 2020 - 06:34 PM.


jr7_saudi #138 Posted 26 June 2020 - 07:29 PM

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Why are slots not assigned to the number of additions and then leave the freedom for members of the game to install all or some of them on his favorite tank


General_Jack_D_Ripper #139 Posted 26 June 2020 - 08:22 PM

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From the information of the news article alone I would say, that this round is way more balanced and optimized for the actual game, than the last one.

One improvement: Make the player decide what bonus the special slot gives. Perfect, for driving vehicles in a creative fashion.

The rest is just balancing the numbers.

 

Good job on that one and thank you devs.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by General_Jack_D_Ripper, 26 June 2020 - 08:23 PM.


YourBestFriend_2016 #140 Posted 26 June 2020 - 09:05 PM

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View PostNPII, on 23 June 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

1) Give us credits in Sandbox server, so we can actually purchase the new equipments.

 This also means that getting new equipment if you have dozens of tanks will be a huge cost.

 

2) Noone will use survivability on heavy tanks except while doing some missions. As every other class will be able to put the air conditioner into their #1 slot, this means a small buff for every non-heavy classes, which is practically an indirect heavy nerf.

Indeed.

 

I run out of gold and credits after trying some configurations.

 

Thinking about that…..

When this goes into production:

  • All equipment should be demounted fro free at start
  • Old equipment should be able to be sold for a reasonable period for full prize instead of half the price
  • We should get a reasonable time to experiment and demount for free 
  • WG please set limits to your greed and let exchange of camo and bino for free

 

WG said they would give some demounting kits that is not even close to a start of a beginning of being reasonable given the fact people have over 100 of tanks.

 

We pay for gold and premium account to have more credits for buying tanks, train crew and usse food on tanks, not to spend it on this update. Thinking about the crew 2.0 that was also announeced. WG should announce reaonable terms for both the equipment 2.0 and crew 2.0 or I will not buy any new gold nor take new premium account. 

 

 

 

The new test is an improvement compared to previous, the choises for lower tiers was slightly improved and the restrictions for lights and mediums were removed which was absolutly neccesary. A pitty OI could not test more due to lack of gold and credits.

 

It leaves me clueless why we are restricted in doing testing.

 


Edited by YourBestFriend_2016, 26 June 2020 - 10:08 PM.





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