Jump to content


Just in case you think Light Tanks are fine...

Light Tank Balance

  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 25 June 2020 - 10:42 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 21765 battles
  • 4,148
  • [WINDY] WINDY
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016
Allow me to show you why they are not


24doom24 #2 Posted 25 June 2020 - 10:43 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 9571 battles
  • 1,948
  • [WW3] WW3
  • Member since:
    10-20-2012
Are you suggesting the leopard 1 is OP?:popcorn:

Edited by 24doom24, 25 June 2020 - 10:43 PM.


Private_Miros #3 Posted 25 June 2020 - 10:48 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29730 battles
  • 11,843
  • [EMU87] EMU87
  • Member since:
    07-09-2011
"Medium tanks are the greatest issue for tracked tier 10 light tanks."

WindSplitter1 #4 Posted 25 June 2020 - 11:12 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 21765 battles
  • 4,148
  • [WINDY] WINDY
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostPrivate_Miros, on 25 June 2020 - 09:48 PM, said:

"Medium tanks WG and the Discipleship of Murazor are the greatest issue for tracked tier 10 light tanks."

 

No.

I merely chose it to illustrate their weaknesses. Though if this was a hint at Wheeled Vehicles, I'm afraid they are not either.



The_Naa #5 Posted 26 June 2020 - 12:22 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 12371 battles
  • 2,506
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017
Light tanks are still smaller and have active camo even when they move.

Ratriq #6 Posted 26 June 2020 - 01:01 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6894 battles
  • 759
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    07-07-2013

View PostThe_Naa, on 25 June 2020 - 11:22 PM, said:

Light tanks are still smaller and have active camo even when they move.

Oh wow, it's almost like the tank is supposed to be balanced around almost just scouting, like if they were a scouting tank or something...



The_Naa #7 Posted 26 June 2020 - 01:10 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 12371 battles
  • 2,506
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

View PostRatriq, on 26 June 2020 - 01:01 AM, said:

Oh wow, it's almost like the tank is supposed to be balanced around almost just scouting, like if they were a scouting tank or something...



Dava_117 #8 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:04 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Moderator
  • 24622 battles
  • 6,851
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

Yeh, tier 10 LTs are in a very bad position right now.

I think already buffing all the base VR by 20m would help with the vision game, while we wait for the IR equipment to come out of the sandbox and in the live server.



Gkirmathal #9 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:20 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8692 battles
  • 1,907
  • [2VTD] 2VTD
  • Member since:
    01-14-2013

When (what year?) was it when WG proposed, also super tested it, to nerf view range across the board on TD's, med and heavies, to give view range more meaning for the LT class?

 

I remember only the TD's and some lower tier stuff getting a slight VR nerf, cause the majority of players revolted didn't want their tX med/heavy getting sub 400m view range.



Ratriq #10 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:22 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6894 battles
  • 759
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    07-07-2013

View PostThe_Naa, on 26 June 2020 - 12:10 AM, said:

<video>

Okay lmao, jokes aside, what I tried to say is light tanks are literally balanced around mostly just scouting since, well, they are scout tanks, that's what their role and playstyle are. So if mediums are generally a lot better compared to what they do in the most important areas for a light tank, besides the small hidden stats, can you really even call them scouting tanks anymore, or at the very least, good scout tanks nowadays.

The size or just small minor hidden stats shouldn't be everything that balances out the tank if some other tanks that have an entirely different role are able to do everything better in all the major areas by stat comparison compared to your average light tank.



azakow #11 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:35 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 87403 battles
  • 5,367
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

MT could always do a better job than LT.

That "always" includes whatever rebalances WG introduded in past.

Why are players looking at LT10 at all?

I played T-100 LT, AMX and WZ.

The only keeper is T-100 LT and used rearely.

 

View PostWindSplitter1, on 25 June 2020 - 10:42 PM, said:

Allow me to show you why they are not

My criteria for LT10 ranking is:

  1. consealment
  2. mobility
  3. firepower

Edited by azakow, 26 June 2020 - 10:38 AM.


arthurwellsley #12 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:42 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 56495 battles
  • 4,462
  • [J1FTD] J1FTD
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

Completely invalid comparison. The Leopard 1 is fast for a good reason. It has worse turret armour than either the USSR or CN light tanks. Light tanks are not supposed to need any armour because they are supposed to whizz around spotting. The Leopard 1 is huge in comparison and is a glass cannon sniper.

 

There is an issue with lights and mediums at tier X but you have failed to realise what it is.

 

What you need to look at are the values for camo on the move, and view range, combined with acceleration (which is a combination of power to weight and the resistance figures). The issue is which tanks are better at the beginning and during tactical points in matches to race to a bush while remaining unspotted and then out spot the incoming enemy.

 

K91 is super powerful in this regard, as expected. UDES has best in class camo which makes up for worst VR. Object 430U is broken and needs to be nerfed.

M60 and M48 really have trash tier camo and it affects them badly. 121B is best by far for 420 VR memes.

Manticore and T-100 place ahead of EBR 105, but EBR 105 still needs a speed nerf.

 

Someone else not me did the following charts (kudos to Ham_)

Tier 10 Medium VR Camo (Moving) Bush Camp Rating
K91 410 13.45 5514.5
UDES 390 13.68 5335.2
430U 400 13.05 5220
BC 25t 400 12.65 5060
140 400 12.08 4832
121B 420 11.23 4716.6
30B 410 11.46 4698.6
Progetto 400 11.57 4628
T-62A 400 11.46 4584
121 400 11.29 4516
Leo 410 10.55 4325.5
TVP 410 10.03 4112.3
STB 400 10.26 4104
Cent AX 410 9.01 3694.1
E50M 400 7.41 2964
Patton 420 6.21 2608.2
M60 420 5.19 2179.8
       
Tier 10 Light      
Manticore 400 20.52 8208
T-100 390 19.84 7737.6
EBR 350 21.15 7402.5
AMX 390 18.18 7090.2
Flipwagen 420 15.73 6606.6
WZ 400 15.96 6384
Sheridan 420 14.48 6081.6


Head_has_Exploded #13 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:53 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 928 battles
  • 83
  • [KV1] KV1
  • Member since:
    10-01-2019
They are not, all need an speed boost to equal the wheelie bins, and the same auto aim mechanic, that said the wheelie bins are so hard to drive, hit an object and you slow right down or bounce all over the place half the battle is about trying to control the damn thing.

azakow #14 Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:59 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 87403 battles
  • 5,367
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

View PostHead_has_Exploded, on 26 June 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

They are not, all need an speed boost to equal the wheelie bins, and the same auto aim mechanic, that said the wheelie bins are so hard to drive, hit an object and you slow right down or bounce all over the place half the battle is about trying to control the damn thing.

... and again someone applying the recent topic derail tool of "WV".

:facepalm:

 



Space_Vato #15 Posted 26 June 2020 - 12:02 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 4388 battles
  • 212
  • Member since:
    02-08-2019

The only issue I have with LT's is my impatient teammates.

 

Ping ping ping (ad nauseam), on the minimap. And complain when you die in the first minute.

People have no patience.



_6i6_ #16 Posted 26 June 2020 - 12:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 26256 battles
  • 610
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    03-22-2018

View PostSpace_Vato, on 26 June 2020 - 01:02 PM, said:

The only issue I have with LT's is my impatient teammates.

 

Ping ping ping (ad nauseam), on the minimap. And complain when you die in the first minute.

People have no patience.

Just tell them to f*ck off and play as you see fit and then turn chat off for the duration of the game :p



Galan7891 #17 Posted 26 June 2020 - 01:40 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 11106 battles
  • 859
  • Member since:
    02-22-2018

View Post_6i6_, on 26 June 2020 - 12:46 PM, said:

Just tell them to f*ck off and play as you see fit and then turn chat off for the duration of the game :p

You guys use chat!?



The_Naa #18 Posted 26 June 2020 - 02:03 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 12371 battles
  • 2,506
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

View PostRatriq, on 26 June 2020 - 10:22 AM, said:

Okay lmao, jokes aside, what I tried to say is light tanks are literally balanced around mostly just scouting since, well, they are scout tanks, that's what their role and playstyle are. So if mediums are generally a lot better compared to what they do in the most important areas for a light tank, besides the small hidden stats, can you really even call them scouting tanks anymore, or at the very least, good scout tanks nowadays.

The size or just small minor hidden stats shouldn't be everything that balances out the tank if some other tanks that have an entirely different role are able to do everything better in all the major areas by stat comparison compared to your average light tank.

 

you are right that light tanks should need more things going for them. but these news are not even new.

 

we have the all the Tier 9 and 10 French tanks that are about just as fast as their Light tanks.

Their Mediums, Heavy's and even arty dont fall far behind in top speed.

Spoiler

 

and then of course we have the classic American TD's that have been fast for as long as i can remember.

Spoiler

 

Even the germans dont have a problem showing off that their light tanks are not that special.

Spoiler

 

even British Cromwell is faster than the Crusader.

 

only Russian and Chinese dont have any other tank class in their tech tree going faster than their lights. all for the Union! :honoring:

 

so you can go 2 ways with this. make the LT's go as fast the EBR's go, or give Mediums and TD's a rough nerf hammer. if you want to make LT's Better.

if you want to make them special there should be more gimmicks to them to make them worth their time.

 

i would just leave them as they are. it's so rare that people complain about Hellcat or B-C 25T being as fast as some light tanks.

so i really dont think there is a problem if you look at it from the larger picture.



Alcoholic_Hellhound #19 Posted 26 June 2020 - 06:01 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 39842 battles
  • 1,154
  • Member since:
    12-09-2012

Tier X LTs have a "problem" that on many maps - Meds can spot for themselves, camper TDs can spot for themselves, and that meds with maxed view range can often spot just as well.. and that they are totally paper with low HP, unless its ruski magic armor light with midgets crew, ye and chinese have some decent turret. 

 

I will say it again, nerf to base view range was absolutely idiotic move by WG, like ye sure you still have view range cap, but would be nice if your LT didnt have to use optics to get superb view range, like 500+, 520 or something. I managed to get some 479 I believe with my sheridan with food, both view skills, and bonds vents (no optics) Or like whats the point of playing tier X LT? That its worse tier X medium on lots of maps. 

 



no_skill_bob #20 Posted 26 June 2020 - 06:22 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 34656 battles
  • 2,437
  • [FARM-] FARM-
  • Member since:
    10-31-2013

View PostPathethicc_Noob, on 26 June 2020 - 07:01 PM, said:

Tier X LTs have a "problem" that on many maps - Meds can spot for themselves, camper TDs can spot for themselves, and that meds with maxed view range can often spot just as well.. and that they are totally paper with low HP, unless its ruski magic armor light with midgets crew, ye and chinese have some decent turret. 

 

I will say it again, nerf to base view range was absolutely idiotic move by WG, like ye sure you still have view range cap, but would be nice if your LT didnt have to use optics to get superb view range, like 500+, 520 or something. I managed to get some 479 I believe with my sheridan with food, both view skills, and bonds vents (no optics) Or like whats the point of playing tier X LT? That its worse tier X medium on lots of maps. 

 

480 on sheridan, really? I have 564 on flipwagen, although its a bad lt, i quite like outspotting pretty much everything at 400-445m :D just for the lols i should drop rammer for binos to have 600+ lol.







Also tagged with Light Tank, Balance

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users