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A new russian TD line


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ZlatanArKung #1 Posted 27 June 2020 - 03:38 PM

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Proposal

 

I would like a new Russian tank destroyer line with following attributes.

High dpm.
Low alpha.
Bad gun depression (say 3-5 degrees).
So-so gun traverse.
Sturdy ufp and superstructure, weak lfp and side (though still 55-70mm).

casemate tanks.
Very agile and rather fast, like SU-122-44.

 

maybe the T8 can have 320 alpha, T9 have 440 and T10 have 560. Which are all rather low for a TD.

 

I don't get why WG haven't taken the opportunity to create such a line of tanks which would be very different from all current TD lines.

closest is British FV4005 line from T6-T8. Which have low alpha high dpm on agile platforms. But these have turrets and no armour.



qpranger #2 Posted 27 June 2020 - 03:48 PM

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I support it as long as these Russian vehicles have fully rotating turrets, 300 mm frontal armour and 70 km top speed.

fwhaatpiraat #3 Posted 27 June 2020 - 05:02 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 27 June 2020 - 03:38 PM, said:

Proposal

maybe the T8 can have 320 alpha, T9 have 440 and T10 have 560. Which are all rather low for a TD.

I assume you came with this proposal with a ';) ' , right?

 

I really liked the concept of the su-100m1; quite mobile, good gun (although penetration should have been better) and bad armor.

The Su-101 was known for being bad and frustrating to play. But, let's be honest, the 320 alpha with a RoF or ~9 fitted in the line. If it had better gun depression, gun handling and/or a wider gun arc, it fitted well in the line.

Su-122-54 received multiple buffs and in the end was really mobile with great dpm. Would be really clumsy in the invincible turret / gun depression meta though.

263 was well loved afaik. Fast, good dpm and could bounce. Now it's a sluggish vehicle with bad dpm; seems really unfun to me.

And the Bobject ofcourse is/was way too extreme. I wonder how the community would react to the Jagdpz E100 going 50-55.

 

The line had so much potential, balance wise imo. Could even be seen as a 'unicum swiss army knife': vehicles that reward skill without dumbing down the game like the Bobject or Waffle did. WG made the SU-100m1 a slug (used to have +50% traverse effectively) with strong armor, bad dpm (-15%) and bad accuracy (0.33 -> 0.41). SU-101's 100mm gun got nerfed (8.96 -> 6.59 RoF and worse accuracy), so totally not worth it. The 122mm gun is a terrible potato launcher with bad everything compared to the German 128.

 

Su-122-54 got removed, but was liked by (the few) players that appreciated the quirks over the BL-10 of the 704.

 

So much potential, and we got nothing back. Besides some game breaking Bobject.



saxsan4 #4 Posted 27 June 2020 - 06:09 PM

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I thought you'd be suggesting tanks? 

ZlatanArKung #5 Posted 27 June 2020 - 06:34 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 27 June 2020 - 05:02 PM, said:

I assume you came with this proposal with a ';) ' , right?

 

I really liked the concept of the su-100m1; quite mobile, good gun (although penetration should have been better) and bad armor.

The Su-101 was known for being bad and frustrating to play. But, let's be honest, the 320 alpha with a RoF or ~9 fitted in the line. If it had better gun depression, gun handling and/or a wider gun arc, it fitted well in the line.

Su-122-54 received multiple buffs and in the end was really mobile with great dpm. Would be really clumsy in the invincible turret / gun depression meta though.

263 was well loved afaik. Fast, good dpm and could bounce. Now it's a sluggish vehicle with bad dpm; seems really unfun to me.

And the Bobject ofcourse is/was way too extreme. I wonder how the community would react to the Jagdpz E100 going 50-55.

 

The line had so much potential, balance wise imo. Could even be seen as a 'unicum swiss army knife': vehicles that reward skill without dumbing down the game like the Bobject or Waffle did. WG made the SU-100m1 a slug (used to have +50% traverse effectively) with strong armor, bad dpm (-15%) and bad accuracy (0.33 -> 0.41). SU-101's 100mm gun got nerfed (8.96 -> 6.59 RoF and worse accuracy), so totally not worth it. The 122mm gun is a terrible potato launcher with bad everything compared to the German 128.

 

Su-122-54 got removed, but was liked by (the few) players that appreciated the quirks over the BL-10 of the 704.

 

So much potential, and we got nothing back. Besides some game breaking Bobject.

I realised how awesome the line was far to late, so only experienced SU-100M1 and SU-101, which I really thought where awesome. High dpm low alpha pew-pew-pew that even could somewhat circle slower casemate TDs.



tajj7 #6 Posted 27 June 2020 - 06:36 PM

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You mean basically like the 263 used to be.

 

I like the current 263 on tier 9, its a very strong tank, but the poor DPM makes no sense for the role it should be playing. 



ZlatanArKung #7 Posted 27 June 2020 - 06:36 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 27 June 2020 - 06:09 PM, said:

I thought you'd be suggesting tanks? 

I am suggesting 4 tanks with some certain combination traits which are currently unavailable in WoT. 

This line was available until WG dumbed it down considerably and remade it.

17:41 Added after 4 minute

View Posttajj7, on 27 June 2020 - 06:36 PM, said:

You mean basically like the 263 used to be.

 

I like the current 263 on tier 9, its a very strong tank, but the poor DPM makes no sense for the role it should be playing. 

Yes, and the tanks leading up to it.

 

Current version is just a dumbed down version of it that also removed what was interesting and different about the line.

 

Now it is just a fast T28-T95-T110E3 line with faster speed forward but lower dpm.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 27 June 2020 - 06:42 PM.


tajj7 #8 Posted 27 June 2020 - 07:40 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 27 June 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

I am suggesting 4 tanks with some certain combination traits which are currently unavailable in WoT. 

This line was available until WG dumbed it down considerably and remade it.

17:41 Added after 4 minute

Yes, and the tanks leading up to it.

 

Current version is just a dumbed down version of it that also removed what was interesting and different about the line.

 

Now it is just a fast T28-T95-T110E3 line with faster speed forward but lower dpm.

 

You can't use the other gun either, because the DPM doesn't change.

 

I was going for the old 263 at tier 10 before they changed it and then gave up, I played it on test and it was great fun, not a massively serious tank, you would like yolo people and DPM them down hoping they would panic and not shoot your lower plate or flank.

 

It can sort of do that now, its still very strong with the same armour layout on tier 9 but its slower and the DPM is just a bit on the annoying side with like a 12s reload. 



fwhaatpiraat #9 Posted 27 June 2020 - 08:09 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 27 June 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

I realised how awesome the line was far to late

Yeah me too. Gun on the tier 7 was so much fun to use, was capable of some amazing stuff http://wotreplays.eu...e/3441431#stats

Regarding the tier 8, I always loved the Obj416 with 7.5 base RoF, the SU-101 had nearly 20% better dpm. Ofcourse on a clumsy a f platform, but still.

Right now I see how nice the SU-122-54 and 263 would be for my playstyle. Too late, sadly.



rimmer_the #10 Posted 27 June 2020 - 08:14 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 27 June 2020 - 03:38 PM, said:

Proposal

 

I would like a new Russian tank destroyer line with following attributes.

High dpm.
Low alpha.
Bad gun depression (say 3-5 degrees).
So-so gun traverse.
Sturdy ufp and superstructure, weak lfp and side (though still 55-70mm).

casemate tanks.
Very agile and rather fast, like SU-122-44.

 

maybe the T8 can have 320 alpha, T9 have 440 and T10 have 560. Which are all rather low for a TD.

 

I don't get why WG haven't taken the opportunity to create such a line of tanks which would be very different from all current TD lines.

closest is British FV4005 line from T6-T8. Which have low alpha high dpm on agile platforms. But these have turrets and no armour.

While I like creativity i think this game has enough turretless "fun" options already.



saxsan4 #11 Posted 27 June 2020 - 10:48 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 27 June 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

I am suggesting 4 tanks with some certain combination traits which are currently unavailable in WoT. 

This line was available until WG dumbed it down considerably and remade it.

17:41 Added after 4 minute

Yes, and the tanks leading up to it.

 

Current version is just a dumbed down version of it that also removed what was interesting and different about the line.

 

Now it is just a fast T28-T95-T110E3 line with faster speed forward but lower dpm.


what tanks?? we dont want more fakes



Japualtah #12 Posted 27 June 2020 - 11:38 PM

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How many TDs per game can you bear?

Six is rather common nowadays, add 3 arties and that's 9 people frantically trying to prevent you from playing the darn game.

 

Oh, and Swedish TDs Top of the Tree was a truly brilliant idea.

 

This being said, low alpha tanks should be much more common so if this replaced a high alpha line, why not.



24doom24 #13 Posted 27 June 2020 - 11:50 PM

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uh what? Don't we already have this? 

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 28 June 2020 - 07:55 AM

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View Post24doom24, on 27 June 2020 - 11:50 PM, said:

uh what? Don't we already have this? 

Not as far as I know.

 

Once upon a time we had it, the SU-100M1 up to obj 263 line. 

 

Then WG removed the fun aspects of the line and made it easier to play.

 

Currently obj 268 v4 line don't have low alpha, high dpm, bad side armour and high agility.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 28 June 2020 - 07:56 AM.


_GrooziN_ #15 Posted 28 June 2020 - 08:36 AM

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I too miss the old 263 :(

no_skill_bob #16 Posted 28 June 2020 - 09:05 AM

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maybe just reverse obj 263 line changes, then? :D

arthurwellsley #17 Posted 28 June 2020 - 09:14 AM

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Suggesting reversion to the previous characteristics of the old line is a nice idea.

 

SU 100m1 the model is still in the game although tanks such as Panther (Bretagne, Pudel, VK3002M), Shermans, and T34-85s all have multiple versions.

SU 122-54 the model was removed and so could be re-issued. I always thought it would come back into the game but assumed as a premium. Putting it back into a low alpha high dpm tech tree mini branch would be excellent.

Object 263 the model is still in the game albeit the statistics are radically different than they used to be. But as above with the SU 100m1 there is an argument to bring back the old fast pew pew version.

Also makes a change that these were models the USSR made in steel.

 

Also as pointed out by someone else, when looking at the current line the Object 263 does not look anything like the other models in the line:


Edited by arthurwellsley, 28 June 2020 - 09:16 AM.


Head_has_Exploded #18 Posted 28 June 2020 - 10:32 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 27 June 2020 - 03:38 PM, said:

Proposal

 

I would like a new Russian tank destroyer line with following attributes.

High dpm.
Low alpha.
Bad gun depression (say 3-5 degrees).
So-so gun traverse.
Sturdy ufp and superstructure, weak lfp and side (though still 55-70mm).

casemate tanks.
Very agile and rather fast, like SU-122-44.

 

maybe the T8 can have 320 alpha, T9 have 440 and T10 have 560. Which are all rather low for a TD.

 

I don't get why WG haven't taken the opportunity to create such a line of tanks which would be very different from all current TD lines.

closest is British FV4005 line from T6-T8. Which have low alpha high dpm on agile platforms. But these have turrets and no armour.

I am sure WG are taking your proposal seriously right now, a letter will be in the post to you shortly,  I would like a fully turreted one with massive amounts of armour, a laser like accurate gun, and the alpha damage of the yet unknown to me Object 264 V4  sounds balanced to me:D



ZlatanArKung #19 Posted 28 June 2020 - 12:35 PM

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View Postno_skill_bob, on 28 June 2020 - 09:05 AM, said:

maybe just reverse obj 263 line changes, then? :D

Would be very fine by me.

11:37 Added after 1 minute

View PostHead_has_Exploded, on 28 June 2020 - 10:32 AM, said:

I am sure WG are taking your proposal seriously right now, a letter will be in the post to you shortly,  I would like a fully turreted one with massive amounts of armour, a laser like accurate gun, and the alpha damage of the yet unknown to me Object 264 V4  sounds balanced to me:D

The proposed line is well balanced, something which can not be said about current obj 268 v4 line or your proposal. 



WindSplitter1 #20 Posted 28 June 2020 - 01:32 PM

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No.

No more TDs. Let alone Russian ones.






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