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This Equipment is BROKEN in World of Tanks!


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Poll: Commanders Vision System Equipment (38 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

What do you think?

  1. Should they keep this new scout equipment as is? (16 votes [42.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.11%

  2. Should they keep it but nerf it? (2 votes [5.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  3. Or just please leave spotting as is ? (20 votes [52.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.63%

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GH0571N45H3LL #1 Posted 29 June 2020 - 02:46 PM

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QB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCpjfJT5_o

 

(cba to watch is video - equipment setup allows spotting through 250m of bushes)

 

Commanders vision systems allows you to reduce enemy concealment behind bushes by 20%

and reduce enemy concealment when moving by 12.5%

Combine this with bincos Sit-Awareness max crew etc..... = crazy spotting through hundreds of meters of bushes

 

What do you guys think of this test Equipment?

 

Personally i think spotting is one of the few mechanics that is well balanced in WoT - and doesn't need touching

 

Should they keep this new scout equipment as is?

Should they keep it but nerf it?

Or just please leave spotting as is ?


Edited by GH0571N45H3LL, 29 June 2020 - 02:48 PM.


Tealo #2 Posted 29 June 2020 - 02:59 PM

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Don't have problem with that as long as the original concealment value of the bushes is put back (nerfed from years ago) in along with the amount of bushes which over the years has been stripped away from the maps.

  Oh and deflattern as well, made more bumpy like they used to be.


Edited by Tealo, 29 June 2020 - 03:01 PM.


GodTank2 #3 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:04 PM

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first of all , who plays sheridan , second of all who uses binos on a sheridan , third of all this will only work in a few maps. Extremely situational. Also i could probably do more spotting with just an EBR on Prokorovka without that equipment

WindSplitter1 #4 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:08 PM

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Of course.

A streamer has said it, so it MUST be true. Celebrities are never wrong.

 

The only piece of equipment that might give LTs a chance to level the playing field with the excessively high camouflage parameters on the Tank Destroyers and make them relevant as a class again is, once more, an object of complaint.

 

I disagree vehemently with this stance, as I also disagree with giving the Low Noise Exhaust System to all classes. That piece of equipment is appropriate as there are already high camo bonuses for TDs and the amount of them in the queue makes this a necessity. It is exhausting to see WG constantly catering for a stale, predictable gameplay style where undeserving meager efforts are massively rewarded, in contrast with herculean sacrifices undertaken by players in other vehicle types that seldom get anything off of their plans.



Homer_J #5 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:11 PM

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View PostGH0571N45H3LL, on 29 June 2020 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

Commanders vision systems allows you to reduce enemy concealment behind bushes by 20%

and reduce enemy concealment when moving by 12.5%

Combine this with bincos Sit-Awareness max crew etc..... = crazy spotting through hundreds of meters of bushes

 

What do you guys think of this test Equipment?

 

From the description it doesn't sound that useful.

 

The way I read it, if a bush gives 25% camo then with this it will reduce that to 20%.



malachi6 #6 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:13 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 29 June 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

first of all , who plays sheridan , second of all who uses binos on a sheridan , third of all this will only work in a few maps. Extremely situational. Also i could probably do more spotting with just an EBR on Prokorovka without that equipment

 

Who plays the Sheridan and the use of binoculars would be known as a straw man.  In the given example both are true.  It was done as an experiment, to show how putting the best view range equipment on the best view range tank, can produce genuinely game-breaking results in the demonstrated situation.



Homer_J #7 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:20 PM

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I suppose it could be read that the overall camo level on the target will be reduced by 20%, but that still shouldn't be giving "insane spotting", even something with insane camo like an STRV with everything in the densest bush would come down to about 90% camo which is the difference between being spotted at proxy spotting distance and being spotted at proxy spotting distance.

Dava_117 #8 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:35 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 29 June 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

I suppose it could be read that the overall camo level on the target will be reduced by 20%, but that still shouldn't be giving "insane spotting", even something with insane camo like an STRV with everything in the densest bush would come down to about 90% camo which is the difference between being spotted at proxy spotting distance and being spotted at proxy spotting distance.

 

Another way of interpreting the description is a flat malus on enemy concealment as it already act as a percentage. So if a tank get 80% concealment (maximum level) it may get down to 60% il the malus due to IR equipment is applied after the 80% cap.

In any case, hardly game breaking, especially after 1.0 lush vegetation.



NekoPuffer_PPP #9 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:42 PM

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Let's say a tank has 50% camo.

 

20% of 50% is 10%.

 

After being affected by that equipment part, the same tank will effectively have 40% camo.

 

Another thing lost in translation... It should say "reduce x% of a tank's total/maximum camo value".


Edited by NekoPuffer_PPP, 29 June 2020 - 03:43 PM.


GH0571N45H3LL #10 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:48 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 29 June 2020 - 02:08 PM, said:

Of course.

A streamer has said it, so it MUST be true. Celebrities are never wrong.

 

 

 

I not saying it's true cos a steamer said (being streamer doesn't make difference to me tbh)

but that's why i came to ask the forums guys .. to get a verified range of options and breakdowns .. already been some good and interesting responses that have shown other things to consider when evaluating this possible change

 

I also take your point on TDs - could be a counter


Edited by GH0571N45H3LL, 29 June 2020 - 03:50 PM.


Kdingo #11 Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:52 PM

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I bet this whole equipment 2.0 stuff is going to break more then it will improve, and will probably take months to sort the biggest issues out, if even possible.

Not really looking forward to it, mainly cause how wg loves to rush crap no matter how broken it is.



dan_dix #12 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:22 PM

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What this new equipment means is that there will potentially be more tanks getting spotted in a battle, or spotted earlier than they are now.

 

Is that a problem? Well, I guess it depends who you ask, right? Arty will be happier cause it may see more targets - except when it gets spotted and killed earlier by the lights or other arta. Bushcamper TDs may get spotted earlier, except when they have the extra vision equipment as well, and they spot the lights even earlier on. So then everyone will be a lot more cautious with getting spotted, and the lights are taking even more risks when moving forward or passive spotting too. But you should already be extra cautious to not get spotted anyway already

 

So the game will just adjust a bit and rebalance itself. No big deal. I suspect it can refresh the game a bit, it got too stale/predictable nowadays, even in randoms... there may be more scenarios in the existing map than there are now, just that.



saxsan4 #13 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:24 PM

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NO this is 100% what we need, concealment is too OP with the silly invisible tanks at high tiers that you cant even spot, this will stop many bush campers

 

my only wish is dont allow ears to have this so tracked lights get an upgrade 


Edited by saxsan4, 29 June 2020 - 04:27 PM.


no_skill_bob #14 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:25 PM

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View PostKdingo, on 29 June 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

I bet this whole equipment 2.0 stuff is going to break more then it will improve, and will probably take months to sort the biggest issues out, if even possible.

Not really looking forward to it, mainly cause how wg loves to rush crap no matter how broken it is.

knowing how wg balance stuff, im really not looking forward to such changes, as there will be some equipment units, that will end up broken without any doubt. Imho they should focus on crew rework first.



saxsan4 #15 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:26 PM

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the whole point of equipment 2.0 is to spice things up again and actually have more randomness, too often now good players can just predict what the enemy set up is, how long the reload is etc, this will provide some much needed variety

 

Variety is the space of life after all

 

 



Dava_117 #16 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:30 PM

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Well, I watched the video and this equipment is definitely something I want to see in live servers.

I think the malus to cammo get applied after the total enemy cammo has been calculated and, if needed, capped. 

So the enemy max cammo became 64% (for a 20% reduction over 80% capped cammo) or 60% (for a 20% straight reduction). Really nice at countering professional bush campers.



tajj7 #17 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:58 PM

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Sensationalism reporting and video from QB, not really looking at the bigger picture and using a very example article to make his 'point' (which I get he is a youtuber looking to get views and people love something to get angry about for no real reason).

 

Let's look at what actually happened in the game that caused him to claim this was 'broken' -

 

- He used a Sheridan which is a very underpowered tank and along with many other higher tier lights has no real value in game, so this gives it more value.

 

- He was on the best spotting map. 

 

- He only got into that position because his EBR basically cleared the path for him scaring of the other enemy lights, without that he would have got spotted early and potentially wrecked. 

 

- He was also lucky that the enemy lights didn't try to counter him, like the enemy EBR (which I think there was one), something he didn't acknowledge until a lot later on in the video in a very passing comment, when he was saying there was no counter, and then basically said the EBR was a pretty obvious counter. 

 

- He used binos, improved vents, BIA, food, view range skill, his base view range was over 600 as it is. Even behind 25% bushes, a Sheridan with that set up will still spot a Leo 1 (fully camoed) if they are moving at over 350m, even if it's a 50% bush, it will still spot a moving Leo 1 at over 200m, that is with current equipment.  628m view range is absurd view range and he didn't really acknowledge that that was doing a lot of the work anyway, not the new equipment. 

 

- The other tanks he spotted were an FV4005, which has poor camo and the JpE100, which has poor camo.

 

- He didn't acknowledge that he was trading the already poor firepower (for a tier 10) for even worse firepower with no rammer and no v-stabs, meaning he would be even less effective in the many city and corridor maps that we have. Making it a very specialist set up, shouldn't a very specialist set up for a light mean it's effective at it's job? 

 

- And as mentioned above by Dava_117, he didn't acknowledge the camo cap of 80%, so the multiple bushes after a point become irrelevant, there might as well have been two bushes between him and the targets. 

 

 

Then finally his team almost lost the game, despite his apparent 'broken' influence and near 8k spotting, why was this? Because he spotted useless campers on the 1 line, people who would have done very little anyway, I mean he was saying what the 'poor Leo' could have done, well the Leopard 1 could have not been camping uselessly on the 1 line and instead using it's excellent gun, speed, and it's own good view range to spot and shoot from the middle, supporting the hill or even going up the hill.

 

And that is IMO the clearest thing from this, why is it 'broken' that useless campers who spend most of the game hiding at the back and use the now very powerful 1.0 bushes to have a very easy and low risk game? Why is spotting them and making it so people can't just sit in base and punish people who dare to attack because they can't outspot them a bad thing?

 

IMO it's not, I hope this equipment stays. Since the 1.0 bush changes, every bush either gives a flat 25% or flat 50% camo bonus, meaning even tanks with no camo like the Fv4005 (which is supposed to be a weakness) can outspot high view range lights and mediums, so they can't do their jobs for the team and campers get rewarded for very passive play. 

 

Making them have to think more about their positioning, escape routes, cover they have, double bushing etc. IMO makes it more skillfull to use concealment again and not just a case of I am behind a bush therefore I will win the spotting battle against someone who is not, as it is now. 

 

This equipment seems to make lights and some meds more relevant and it makes the lives of bush campers less easy, seems to be a win win to me. 

 

 


Edited by tajj7, 29 June 2020 - 06:54 PM.


no_skill_bob #18 Posted 29 June 2020 - 05:25 PM

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idk, maybe i didnt notice it in the past, but recently, his video thumbnails gets more and more clickbait - this video is a great example, thumbnail(THIS IS BROKEN), in actual video he says, that he is not sure basically, so what is it then? its broken or he is not sure lol. you can mount optics+vents+binos on sheridan or rhm pzw now and get quite similar result, but who will use such setup? 8k spotting on that map is nothing, i had 12k assist dmg game with lhmtv by using same bushes, so i guess lhmtv is broken as well, even with standard setup, not enhanced for the best possible VR.

 

Even though he points out that he gets all the spotting because of this broken equipment unit, i highly doubt that, those tds got spotted because of poor bush modeling, they dont have the same physical shape as they are viewed visually, if you dont catch a tiny part of enemy tank through those holes in bushes, you are not going to spot crap, even with this super equipment unit, as now you can hide in those broken bushes with pretty much 0 camo on your tank and only get proxy spotted. if you position yourself right in that bush line, its impossible that with camo reduction equipment unit, you can see through multiple layers of solid bush line, super hype over nothing, if he actually wanted to test it properly, then he would need a training room, not a random battle, as the training room is the only place where you can properly test game mechanics.

 

p.s. i watch his streams as well, as he is good as an entertainer, not so much because of the actual game-play, but OP really seems like a typical QB fanboy, that believes every word he says, im not saying he has no point of this, but he tends to over-exaggerate a lot.


Edited by no_skill_bob, 29 June 2020 - 05:33 PM.


ZlatanArKung #19 Posted 29 June 2020 - 05:25 PM

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If I understand camo correct.

Bushes cap out at 80%.
So if a tank have 20% camo. Proxy is needed from that direction. Since they stack additive.

Currently bushes stack additive.

Now the new equipment reduce camo following bush by 20% according to text.
So a bush that give 50% camo could then give.
30% camo. Or. 40% camo.

A 25% camo bush would get reduced to 5% or 20% depending on how it is interpreted. 
Depending on interpretation, which is unknown and WG haven't been clear with this before.

 

 

If you flat out remove 20% of the bonus so a bush gives : current camo - 0.2 then it is very strong. If it just removes 20% of the camo bush gives: current camo × 0.8. It is a rather weak equipment.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 29 June 2020 - 05:28 PM.


Tealo #20 Posted 29 June 2020 - 05:54 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 29 June 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

the whole point of equipment 2.0 is to spice things up again and actually have more randomness, too often now good players can just predict what the enemy set up is, how long the reload is etc, this will provide some much needed variety

 

Variety is the space of life after all

 

 

 

 Simple just remove vents (bonded) and refunded everyone including bonds, now what are you going to put in that slot instead? 






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