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Policy on nerfing premiums


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Misago #1 Posted 04 July 2020 - 02:20 PM

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So, there's a lot of conflicting opinions about this, and I just want to ask.

 

Does Wargaming actually nerf premium tanks from the shop after release?

 

Not gonna argue which one need it, because I think most people will have their own suggestions. I just would like to know if nerfing premium tanks is on the table.

 

Some say its illegal, some say its only illegal if they are sold directly for money (which probably covers all of them by now), and some say nerfing them is fair game.

 

So if I could get some info on this (and since I can't find any dev responses anywhere except the usual corporate speak), that'd be great.



saxsan4 #2 Posted 04 July 2020 - 02:29 PM

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They are not allowed to do specific nerfs to premiums due to EU law thats Staes you cannot change the characteristics of perched online goods for 2 years after purchase

 

THEY  can change game wide things such as a server wide nerf to gold ammo but they cant do specific changes

 

There also is the moral argument that if they did nerf premium no one would buy them again 

 

 

so dont worry the premiums are safe 



Balc0ra #3 Posted 04 July 2020 - 03:18 PM

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View PostMisago, on 04 July 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

Does Wargaming actually nerf premium tanks from the shop after release?

 

They have done so. Type 59... not really. But the T26E4 was nerfed. Back during the Summer patch of 2013, they decided to nerf the Super Pershing. By removing the 2nd plate, and adding that to the hull armor instead, but also lowering it vs the original position. And closing the gap on the top plate. So that the upper half had less effective armor, and could be penned by a 170 pen gun. And the lower half could not eat HEAT shells anymore.

 

That nerf did not sit well with most. And even with a massively bad feedback, they still went ahead with it. But did offer a full gold refund for those that wanted it. That aftershock on that nerf did force WG to say premiums would not be nerfed. Not due to consumer laws etc. But just by how badly that went overall for WG. So since then, premiums have remained unchanged. Inc when the TD camo/view range nerf was, or when arty lost their view range or HE pen. And LT's lost their scout MM and got DPM and pen nerfs. Premiums all still had their old stats.

 

But in 2018 they did try it again with the KV-5. But that was not a nerf in WG's eyes as such. As they did change some of the stats massively. But they also wanted to remove it's pref MM. That last part caused a massive hysteria. So badly that WG did realize that players did see that as a massive nerf and pulled the changes altogether.

 

So no.. it's not a rule set in stone as such. Or a policy written on their page. It's just a direction they went after having bad experiences with it, and noticing how players reacted to it.



Kdingo #4 Posted 04 July 2020 - 03:31 PM

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I don´t really think they really care much about nerfing prem tanks anymore... at least not those sold recently. The older ones maybe just to create more incentives to buy a newer prem tank.

But as this didn´t work well in the past they just sell whatever prem tank comes next in a stronger state then the previous one. 

 

The fun part, if its a heavy (probably goes for tds as well) it will be considered broken/op cause steves can do well in it, its if a medium/light its totally balanced regardless cause only very skilled players can make it work.

 

Imo they kinda f*cked up when they started to sell premium vehicles that are stronger then their tech tree elite counterparts. The original idea to have prem tanks being better then a strock but worse then an elite tech tree counterpart worked better as the other way around makes playing tech tree tanks rather obsolete. I mean who in the right mind plays t-44 when he has the option to purchase a t-44-100. 



FritzSpiegal #5 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:16 PM

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While I don't think they nerf premiums as such I do think they alter MM to counter very powerful tanks?

 

May be tin hat time but I do seem to see far more T10 games when playing a Defender than say a Somua. 



24doom24 #6 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:22 PM

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WG made the initial mistake by selling premium tanks directly for money. WG should have made every tank purchasable by gold only. That fixes this issue WG has with laws etc. 

You buy gold with real money then you choose to buy something in-game with that gold. WG could then nerf those tanks to their liking.  Since you never bought the tank with real cash it's free real estate for WG to change them to their hearts content. 

 

The second issue is that nobody wants their premium tanks nerfed, WGs knows this and got a dose of this medicine with the super pershing nerf saga. 



nc30_guy #7 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:24 PM

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Just put vehicle specific guns on prems and mess with the ammo to balance as you don't buy shells with real money must be a few params to fiddle with on those without changing the actual vehicle.

evilchaosmonkey #8 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:26 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 04 July 2020 - 01:29 PM, said:

They are not allowed to do specific nerfs to premiums due to EU law thats Staes you cannot change the characteristics of perched online goods for 2 years after purchase

 

Only if those characteristics are key and were specifically advertised as such at the time of purchase.

That is why they dropped advertising tanks as having preferential MM.


Edited by evilchaosmonkey, 04 July 2020 - 04:30 PM.


UserZer00 #9 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:38 PM

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I think that over the years WG have made it pretty clear that they don't really respect any policy.

Their decision are more based upon how big of a financial impact will we feel if we do or don't change something.

That's not to say that they haven't made any changes to benefit players or gameplay, but they are usually few and far between.

The recent changes to light tanks, made to seemingly slow down game play and move back towards a more strategical, each class with it's role type of play, was quickly shown to be a joke as more and more OPd premiums and then WV were added.

Basically, they have no real plan and no real policies.

I play the game keeping this in mind with regards to if or how I may want to spend money on the game

saxsan4 #10 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:40 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 04 July 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

 

Only if those characteristics are key and were specifically advertised as such at the time of purchase.

That is why they dropped advertising tanks as having preferential MM.


and the stat they advertise are unchainable too, WG does not want to have to offer refunds to al the people that buy premium tanks 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:45 PM

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View PostUserZer00, on 04 July 2020 - 04:38 PM, said:

I think that over the years WG have made it pretty clear that they don't really respect any policy.

Their decision are more based upon how big of a financial impact will we feel if we do or don't change something.

 

And this is different to every other corporate entity in the world how?



saxsan4 #12 Posted 04 July 2020 - 04:47 PM

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View PostFritzSpiegal, on 04 July 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:

While I don't think they nerf premiums as such I do think they alter MM to counter very powerful tanks?

 

May be tin hat time but I do seem to see far more T10 games when playing a Defender than say a Somua. 


there is no such thing 



arthurwellsley #13 Posted 04 July 2020 - 05:20 PM

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View PostMisago, on 04 July 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:

So, there's a lot of conflicting opinions about this, and I just want to ask.

 

Does Wargaming actually nerf premium tanks from the shop after release?

 

Not gonna argue which one need it, because I think most people will have their own suggestions. I just would like to know if nerfing premium tanks is on the table.

 

Some say its illegal, some say its only illegal if they are sold directly for money (which probably covers all of them by now), and some say nerfing them is fair game.

 

So if I could get some info on this (and since I can't find any dev responses anywhere except the usual corporate speak), that'd be great.

 

1. Country passes Electronic Consumer protection law.

2. Company tries to change online pixels that have been purchased for cash and are thus protected by law.

3. Consumer reports company to national consumer protection agency who either (a) force company to offer customers cash refunds or (b) slap company with massive fine or (c.) both if a repeat offender.

 

War Gaming as a large corporation is well aware of the need to comply with national consumer protection laws and does so.

 

War Gaming already sells Christmas loot boxes in some countries but not in others to comply with national gambling laws.



bnmm113 #14 Posted 04 July 2020 - 05:33 PM

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i think if they do change value of the digital value itdem, or its general feel they must offer a full refound to any customer who bought the digital itdem.

meaning you could argue lets say e25 lost its value because of the powercreep, however this is an invalid argument....



mgns #15 Posted 04 July 2020 - 05:43 PM

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It's really strange that they didn't switch to rental premiums once the issue became apparent.

saxsan4 #16 Posted 04 July 2020 - 05:54 PM

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View Postmgns, on 04 July 2020 - 04:43 PM, said:

It's really strange that they didn't switch to rental premiums once the issue became apparent.


no one would buy rental premiums 



Kdingo #17 Posted 04 July 2020 - 06:12 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 04 July 2020 - 05:54 PM, said:


no one would buy rental premiums 

 

Never understood the rental concept anyways, i mean for a "try a tank for xy days to decide if you wanna buy it or not" cool but aside from that why waste cash on a subscription like rental?



mgns #18 Posted 04 July 2020 - 06:48 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 04 July 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:


no one would buy rental premiums 


no one would be able to. that's what rental means.



saxsan4 #19 Posted 04 July 2020 - 06:49 PM

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View Postmgns, on 04 July 2020 - 05:48 PM, said:


no one would be able to. that's what rental means.


no it doesnt xD I guess you never rented VHS from blockbuster then

 

rental means you have it for a set amount of time, it doesnt mean its free :teethhappy:

 

 



FatigueGalaxy #20 Posted 04 July 2020 - 06:52 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 04 July 2020 - 02:29 PM, said:

They are not allowed to do specific nerfs to premiums due to EU law thats Staes you cannot change the characteristics of perched online goods for 2 years after purchase

 

THEY  can change game wide things such as a server wide nerf to gold ammo but they cant do specific changes

 

There also is the moral argument that if they did nerf premium no one would buy them again 

 

 

so dont worry the premiums are safe 

 

View Post24doom24, on 04 July 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

WG made the initial mistake by selling premium tanks directly for money. WG should have made every tank purchasable by gold only. That fixes this issue WG has with laws etc. 

You buy gold with real money then you choose to buy something in-game with that gold. WG could then nerf those tanks to their liking.  Since you never bought the tank with real cash it's free real estate for WG to change them to their hearts content. 

 

The second issue is that nobody wants their premium tanks nerfed, WGs knows this and got a dose of this medicine with the super pershing nerf saga. 


It's a funny thing but you don't "own" anything purchased in the game. Real money or gold - it doesn't matter. It's the same as purchasing digital games - you only buy the right to play it but you don't own it. Your account is not even yours... it belongs to WG. They can do whatever they want but they don't do it for a simple reason:

PR.

They are not afraid of players suing them because some random dude is no match for their army of expensive lawyers. They are afraid of player backlash because if gaming news websites would pick a topic like "WG is altering purchased in-game goods!" damage would be catastrophic. It's almost impossible to recover from something like this: just look at Battlefront II and their lootbox scandal. They never recovered, game is cheap AF and not many ppl play it. And it's actually a decent game now but it doesn't matter.






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