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Autoloaders?


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Dr_Strangefruit #1 Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:34 PM

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Is it just me that hates facing these damned paper tanks with fast autoloaders guns? TVP 50/51, Bat Chat 25, Progetto 65, AMX tanks and a few others that i cant recall off the top of my head.

 

Yes i know they have paper thin armour and rely on speed and high rates of fire but when your in a medium or heavy that can fire 1 shot doing 400+ damage in the time they can rattle off 3 or 4 shots and do 1200+ damage does this not seem that the paper thin armour is not enough to balance the beating these tanks can give out?

 

The issue is compounded even more when they are firing 'Special Ammo' at you as well so your penetrated in places you would rather not be penetrated.

 

I understand they are hard to play which is why i probably wont own one as i am average at best as a player, but i just feel the balance for these vehicles is way off. 


Edited by Dr_Strangefruit, 12 July 2020 - 01:51 PM.


saxsan4 #2 Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:35 PM

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batch is out of meta 

 

TVP are very weak tanks

 

only proegetto is OP but thankfully its getting nerfed soon



Kdingo #3 Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:41 PM

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View PostDr_Strangefruit, on 06 July 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:

Is it just me that hates facing these damned paper tanks with fast autoloaders guns? TVP 50/51, Bat Chat 25, Progetto 65, AMX tanks and a few others that i cant recall off the top of my head.

 

Yes i know they have paper thin armour and rely on speed and high rates of fire but when your in a medium or heavy that can fire 1 shot doing 400+ damage in the time they can rattle off 4 shots and do 1200 damage doe this not seem that the paper thin armour is not enough to balance the beating these tanks can give out?

 

The issue is compounded even more when they are firing 'Special Ammo' at you as well so your penetrated in places you would rather not be penetrated.

 

I understand they are hard to play which is why i probably wont own one as i am average at best as a player, but i just feel the balance for these vehicles is way off. 

 

You can't approach then like "normal" tanks, don't go alone/isolate yourself, specially if there are multiple and even more so when they platoon.

 

This burst damage stuff isn't particularly enhancing the game but its its manageable to go up against.

That said, old school clippers, like batchat, usually come with rather mediocre/bad gun handling and long reload times. those new autoreloaders don't have those tradeoffs.



lbot #4 Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:44 PM

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Even in the hands of a complete noob yolowing brainlessly ahead of others, these tanks allow to ruin the game for the one whom this noob manages to discharge his only clip at.

arthurwellsley #5 Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:46 PM

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View PostDr_Strangefruit, on 06 July 2020 - 11:34 AM, said:

Is it just me that hates facing these damned paper tanks with fast autoloaders guns? TVP 50/51, Bat Chat 25, Progetto 65, AMX tanks and a few others that i cant recall off the top of my head.

 

Yes i know they have paper thin armour and rely on speed and high rates of fire but when your in a medium or heavy that can fire 1 shot doing 400+ damage in the time they can rattle off 4 shots and do 1200 damage doe this not seem that the paper thin armour is not enough to balance the beating these tanks can give out?

 

The issue is compounded even more when they are firing 'Special Ammo' at you as well so your penetrated in places you would rather not be penetrated.

 

I understand they are hard to play which is why i probably wont own one as i am average at best as a player, but i just feel the balance for these vehicles is way off. 

 

Although I can understand why they are irritating to face sometimes, the fact of the matter is they are difficult to play compared to single shot tanks and for the most part are well balanced. The thing to look for with auto loaders is both the inter clip reload, the number of shells that they might have in the canister, the number of shells that they have fired and what they will do when they need to go and reload the canister. Most of the auto loaders have poor gun handling and quite a few poor penetration. The result is unless the player in the auto loader is incredibly careful they will not penetrate all their shoots. If an auto loader fails to penetrate then it is going to have a problem against the single shot tank that it is engaging unless the player of the auto loader has already worked out his exit route in advance of entering the engagement.

 

I would even suggest that the older auto loaders such as the USA tier VIII medium T69 and the USA tier IX heavy T54E1 have been very badly power crept and now under perform compared to many tanks on their tier.

 

Contrary to what saxsan4 says the French tier X medium Bat Chat is still a very good tank, just extraordinarily difficult to play. However in 7v7 brawl matches I love my Bat Chat.

 

The only one that maybe needs a nerf is the Progetto M40 mod65.



Dava_117 #6 Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:47 PM

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The real question is: why did you allow them to unload the whole clip on you?

Likely you where out of position, in a place where you could not use your armour correctly or could not retreat behind an hard cover. 

Force them into single shot fight by using covers and armour and they lose all their potential.



Gremlin182 #7 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:00 PM

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1 on 1 they are very strong but not otherwise you have to try to bait them into firing a shot or two and hopefully having them miss or bounce.

Eventually they have to go for a clip reload and they have to either run away to do it or try to fool you by reloading while still having shells left.

I keep up the aggressive stance while doing this as if I pull back a bit and don't threaten the enemy tank they know I am reloading and rush me.

Autoreloaders changed that and its hard to know when to go for them.

Projettos will try to fire one shot and let it reload wearing the enemies down while maintaining a fairly high rof the more of the clip they use the slower each shell reloads.

The Russian Autoreloader is the reverse it can fire off all the shells and load its first one quite fast.

 

If you can get on a test server and try them out work out how they can be beaten.



BlackBloodBandit #8 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:23 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 06 July 2020 - 12:47 PM, said:

The real question is: why did you allow them to unload the whole clip on you?

Likely you where out of position, in a place where you could not use your armour correctly or could not retreat behind an hard cover. 

Force them into single shot fight by using covers and armour and they lose all their potential.

There's also a big chance that allies around him got destroyed or distracted, so they could unload their clip on him, without punishment.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:32 PM

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Don't fight them on equal terms. Autoloaders want to dump their mag and retreat so take your shot and pull back and force them to trade one for one. Do that and they'll soon run out of shells then you can murder them.

Ricox #10 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:42 PM

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View Postlbot, on 06 July 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

Even in the hands of a complete noob yolowing brainlessly ahead of others, these tanks allow to ruin the game for the one whom this noob manages to discharge his only clip at.

 

You're not much better than them if you frequently put yourself in a position where someone can YOLO you that way. Plus, the important thing is to win the game. If it comes at the cost of letting someone unload on you once and then remove a dangerous gun from the enemy while keeping one for your team, then that's a good trade. Auto(re)loaders are very easy to counter in most situations, unless you get outplayed or face an impossible-to-avoid duel, in which case you always need to keep at least medium distance and cover availability to give you time and room.

 

As someone recommended - try playing them on the test server when it's back up. Progetto 46 seemed scary until I started playing it and realized how many counters there are to it (although I absolutely love it).



Dava_117 #11 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:56 PM

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View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 06 July 2020 - 01:23 PM, said:

There's also a big chance that allies around him got destroyed or distracted, so they could unload their clip on him, without punishment.

 

Well, this case is more a team issue than an AL one. 

Tho, eith the right situational awareness, you can try to back up on a defence position (or any position that allows to use armour) to make harder for them to unload the whole clip effectively.


Edited by Dava_117, 06 July 2020 - 01:56 PM.


norbar #12 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:59 PM

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View PostDr_Strangefruit, on 06 July 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:

Is it just me that hates facing these damned paper tanks with fast autoloaders guns? TVP 50/51, Bat Chat 25, Progetto 65, AMX tanks and a few others that i cant recall off the top of my head.

 

Yes i know they have paper thin armour and rely on speed and high rates of fire but when your in a medium or heavy that can fire 1 shot doing 400+ damage in the time they can rattle off 4 shots and do 1200 damage doe this not seem that the paper thin armour is not enough to balance the beating these tanks can give out?

 

The issue is compounded even more when they are firing 'Special Ammo' at you as well so your penetrated in places you would rather not be penetrated.

 

I understand they are hard to play which is why i probably wont own one as i am average at best as a player, but i just feel the balance for these vehicles is way off. 

 

The balance is not off on them. The stats on most autoloaders both for average and top players are balanced. Only Progetto 46 and 65 are overperforming. 



no_skill_bob #13 Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:05 PM

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Damn someone still complaining about autoloaders in 2020? lol

GodTank2 #14 Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:33 PM

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You can only get punished by them if you are out of position. If you stay in position they will never be able to outtrade you

tajj7 #15 Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:44 PM

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In the current meta of corridor/city maps who have to muck up pretty badly to get punished by an autoloader, they don't get many opportunities to fully clip out until late game when they get to isolate people and they have the health to do that, which is rare. 

24doom24 #16 Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:56 PM

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Just try not to get double tracked. And when they have to reload they are sitting ducks. 

OniichanSenpai #17 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:54 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 06 July 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

batch is out of meta 

 

TVP are very weak tanks

 

only proegetto is OP but thankfully its getting nerfed soon

 

T77 will come with the same patch and outclass all other tanks. 

 

Expect to be clipped



Rati_Festa #18 Posted 06 July 2020 - 04:20 PM

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I'm not a fan of autoloaders and recently they appear to more popular than ever, they like any tank are ok in small doses but when entering matchups and there are 5+ on either team it's hard not to get "clipped". The games ramping up of the dpm and burst damage is speeding up the matches and one mistake by one player they are instantly wiped out leads to the landslide games that aren't much fun but feel far more frequent lately.

 

I'm not a massive tank historian but did autoloaders become the pinnacle of tank gun design in the real world or did single shots prevail? I can't help but think the T69 with its anemic gun was a more realistic portrayal of an autoloader than the newer introductions. Single-shot tanks need some kind of revamp to make them more relevant, perhaps an additional equipment slot or the autoloaders get one removed perhaps?

 

Being "paper" is hardly a trade off when a lot of the ammo fired is gold anyway, I'm sure most t8 meds shooting gold would pen my t44-100 as they would a Progetto... the lack of armour isn't really balancing out the tanks imo.

 

 



Gruff_ #19 Posted 06 July 2020 - 04:25 PM

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Leopard says "ratatatatatatatatah!"

Dr_Strangefruit #20 Posted 06 July 2020 - 04:40 PM

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The example i can give of the autoloaders being vastly OPed is being hull down and angled in a Jagdtiger (yes i was ona flank but fairly far away from front lines) when i get penned four times in a row at range by a ELC Even 90 Light Tank autoloader using 'APCR Special Ammo', he wasn't hitting my lower glacis as i know that's fairly weak (and it was protected  by a substantial rock outcrop) and he wasn't hitting the MG port either and to top it all off he wasn't spotted by me or the team until about his 3rd shot had been fired.  My Jagdtiger has a fairly good view range so surely after his first shot he should be spotted due to the gun bloom?

Edited by Dr_Strangefruit, 06 July 2020 - 04:43 PM.





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