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112 and IS-6/B


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Leprix #1 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:25 PM

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First time these were out to players they had 175pen (just like a tier 7 IS-2) and some time ago they upped the pen to 186 which is like tier 7.2-7.3 (so that means a better tier 7 IS-2 gun) but i feel that they need 200 or ~210 penetration to be good on standard rounds against tier 9 (186pen good against the paper tier 9s)  and some of the tier 8's.

All the games i had in my 112 were tier 8 against Defenders and tier 9; i barely had any tier 6 in which 186 would be more than enough and if i want to pen were the 186 can't pen, i just need to switch to 2nd slot and just be prepared for that sweet -24.523 credits or -45.210 on normal account without premium time.

Edited by Leprix, 06 July 2020 - 03:27 PM.


saxsan4 #2 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:26 PM

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no, they are fine as they get pref mm

 

 

if you give them very high pen then they would loose their pref mm status which makes them a massive nerf

The M4 rev sees tier 10 and only gets 200 pen

 

max they should be buffed to (along with kv5 is 190) no more than that


Edited by saxsan4, 06 July 2020 - 03:30 PM.


bnmm113 #3 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:28 PM

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View PostLeprix, on 06 July 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

First time these were out to players they had 175pen (just like a tier 7 IS-2) and some time ago they upped the pen to 186 which is like tier 7.2-7.3 (so that means a better tier 7 IS-2 gun) but i feel that they need 200 or ~210 penetration to be good on standard rounds against tier 9 (186pen good against the paper tier 9s)  and some of the tier 8's.

All the games i had in my 112 were tier 8 against Defenders and tier 9; i barely had any tier 6 in which 186 would be more than enough and if i want to pen were the 186 can't pen, i just need to switch to 2nd slot and just be prepared for that sweet -24.523 credits or -45.210 on normal account without premium time.

yup

 

heavy tanks suffer from premium shell price...

it is often impossible to flank in hts, so spamming gold or he is the only option



Bulldog_Drummond #4 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:32 PM

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I rather like my 112 but see it mainly as a soaker-up of damage

It will struggle to pen many enemies, even using 250 pen HEAT, but when top tier, which it often is due to the PMM, it can be a beast



Kdingo #5 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:40 PM

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~200 pen with standard for both and ~235 pen for prem on the is6 would do the trick imo. 

I mean after all 186 is what you get on pref mm mediums like the t-34-3 which are more mobile, having the same + shotgun accuracy on a heavy is a bit ridiculous after they wrecked accuracy/dispersion years ago, let alone the powercreep.

 



Rati_Festa #6 Posted 06 July 2020 - 04:30 PM

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View PostLeprix, on 06 July 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

First time these were out to players they had 175pen (just like a tier 7 IS-2) and some time ago they upped the pen to 186 which is like tier 7.2-7.3 (so that means a better tier 7 IS-2 gun) but i feel that they need 200 or ~210 penetration to be good on standard rounds against tier 9 (186pen good against the paper tier 9s)  and some of the tier 8's.

All the games i had in my 112 were tier 8 against Defenders and tier 9; i barely had any tier 6 in which 186 would be more than enough and if i want to pen were the 186 can't pen, i just need to switch to 2nd slot and just be prepared for that sweet -24.523 credits or -45.210 on normal account without premium time.

 

What the pref MM tanks need is to be matched against other pref MM tanks not top tier vs Defender and Vk's. WG needs to look at the MM and give them more balanced matches.



StronkiTonki #7 Posted 06 July 2020 - 10:14 PM

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Considering the T-34-3 and Type 59 get 186 and 185 pen respectively, I don't think it makes sense to have pretty much the same pen on heavies.

Meds at least have some form of mobility to work around the lower pen, but with heavies you pretty much need to go face to face with Defender and other stuff. And that's not even taking into account their derpiness.

I don't relaly blame people for spamming gold in these tanks.



qpranger #8 Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:15 PM

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Give them wheels instead of tracks.

Bulldog_Drummond #9 Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:32 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 06 July 2020 - 10:15 PM, said:

Give them wheels instead of tracks.

 

Historically the great German Afrika Korps offensive in the Western Desert in early 1941 was spearheaded by the elite amoured car car brigade 34/112 under the command of Oberst Mülleimer

Although only armed with 7.68 machine guns, Mülleimer's men made short work of the Matildas and Cruisers in their way.

It was only Fuhrer Directive #13 that forced them to halt before Tobruk, otherwise they would surely have captured Alexandria by March or April.

Mülleimer's cadre was later sent to reform in Italy and with new drafts was redesignated Müll Kampfgruppen.  Armed with the newly issued sdfkpz 190 armoured cars, with 20 mm guns capable of penetrating any Soviet tank, it was committed by Manstein to the southern flank at Stalingrad

The units success was complete and it continued on east, eventually regrouping on Tahiti, where it had remarkable success against the 2nd Marine Division

(cont p 94)



Kdingo #10 Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:41 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 06 July 2020 - 11:32 PM, said:

 

Historically the great German Afrika Korps offensive in the Western Desert in early 1941 was spearheaded by the elite amoured car car brigade 34/112 under the command of Oberst Mülleimer

Although only armed with 7.68 machine guns, Mülleimer's men made short work of the Matildas and Cruisers in their way.

It was only Fuhrer Directive #13 that forced them to halt before Tobruk, otherwise they would surely have captured Alexandria by March or April.

Mülleimer's cadre was later sent to reform in Italy and with new drafts was redesignated Müll Kampfgruppen.  Armed with the newly issued sdfkpz 190 armoured cars, with 20 mm guns capable of penetrating any Soviet tank, it was committed by Manstein to the southern flank at Stalingrad

The units success was complete and it continued on east, eventually regrouping on Tahiti, where it had remarkable success against the 2nd Marine Division

(cont p 94)

 

Didn't they also discover, conquer and sink atlantis during some idle days after directive 13?



Balc0ra #11 Posted 07 July 2020 - 01:07 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 06 July 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

no, they are fine as they get pref mm

 

 

if you give them very high pen then they would loose their pref mm status which makes them a massive nerf

The M4 rev sees tier 10 and only gets 200 pen

 

max they should be buffed to (along with kv5 is 190) no more than that

 

Pref MM was why I did not play the IS-6 when 3-5-7 was a thing. As he did see +0 games 80% of the time. Why was that bad? Because most targets on the HT lane back then were full of VK 100.01, Defenders or Chrysler K's. Basically anything you needed 220 pen to deal with. It's why the T32 did struggle for a bit even with 198 pen. And why he is getting a pen buff now. 112 and 111 are not terrible still. Why? They have 250 HEAT pen. 225 gold pen only gets you that far vs a VK 100.01 lower plate that is 250 effective more so than not. And gold is about 30% on the cupola. Not amazing is it? If he got +1 I had T-10's and M103 I could pen the lower plate of easy with AP. As top tier vs a VK I had an 18% chance. 

 

200 pen is good for a tier 8 medium. Because his job is not to go brawl the VK 100.01 head-on is it? He moves around and flank fires it at long range. T26E4 has pref MM too. It's a medium, and has been buffed twice due to the role he does on the HT lane. He now has 202 pen. That's 10 more vs the other US tier 8 mediums with +2 MM. And 258 gold pen on top of it. That's 33 more gold pen vs the IS-6, and 16 more AP pen vs the IS-6... as a pref MM medium. 

 

212 pen would still not break it tbh. As that's workable on a tier 8 HT these days. 



rush0620 #12 Posted 07 July 2020 - 05:49 AM

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IS6 useless outdated tank!

 

Real IS6 have Defender gun 122 mm BL 13 not the 122 mm D30! Maximum speed real IS6 44km/h not 35km/h!

122-мм пушка БЛ-13, разработанная ОКБ-172 для ИС-6. Именно её часто путают с Д-30

122-mm BL-13 gun developed by OKB-172 for the IS-6. It is often confused with D-30

 

 

WOT console IS6 balanced than WOT! WOT console IS6 have 122mm BL 13! :(


Edited by rush0620, 07 July 2020 - 05:53 AM.


saxsan4 #13 Posted 07 July 2020 - 07:16 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 07 July 2020 - 12:07 AM, said:

 

Pref MM was why I did not play the IS-6 when 3-5-7 was a thing. As he did see +0 games 80% of the time. Why was that bad? Because most targets on the HT lane back then were full of VK 100.01, Defenders or Chrysler K's. Basically anything you needed 220 pen to deal with. It's why the T32 did struggle for a bit even with 198 pen. And why he is getting a pen buff now. 112 and 111 are not terrible still. Why? They have 250 HEAT pen. 225 gold pen only gets you that far vs a VK 100.01 lower plate that is 250 effective more so than not. And gold is about 30% on the cupola. Not amazing is it? If he got +1 I had T-10's and M103 I could pen the lower plate of easy with AP. As top tier vs a VK I had an 18% chance. 

 

200 pen is good for a tier 8 medium. Because his job is not to go brawl the VK 100.01 head-on is it? He moves around and flank fires it at long range. T26E4 has pref MM too. It's a medium, and has been buffed twice due to the role he does on the HT lane. He now has 202 pen. That's 10 more vs the other US tier 8 mediums with +2 MM. And 258 gold pen on top of it. That's 33 more gold pen vs the IS-6, and 16 more AP pen vs the IS-6... as a pref MM medium. 

 

212 pen would still not break it tbh. As that's workable on a tier 8 HT these days. 


I use my 112 and have no issues with using standard rounds, I hardly ever use my HEAT and dont struggle even against VKs, I did 5.4k dmg using nothing but standard ammo in a tier 8 only game and I am far from a good player 

 

kv5 also I have no issue using standard rounds, in fact I only take 7 apr on that tank

 

id rather they not start buffing pen on all tanks contributing to the power creep 

 

 

06:17 Added after 1 minute

View Postrush0620, on 07 July 2020 - 04:49 AM, said:

IS6 useless outdated tank!

 

Real IS6 have Defender gun 122 mm BL 13 not the 122 mm D30! Maximum speed real IS6 44km/h not 35km/h!

122-мм пушка БЛ-13, разработанная ОКБ-172 для ИС-6. Именно её часто путают с Д-30

122-mm BL-13 gun developed by OKB-172 for the IS-6. It is often confused with D-30

 

 

WOT console IS6 balanced than WOT! WOT console IS6 have 122mm BL 13! :(


wow! they should definitely change that then

 

give it speed buff and change the gun so it looks like that gun but keep stats the same on gun


Edited by saxsan4, 07 July 2020 - 07:17 AM.


rush0620 #14 Posted 07 July 2020 - 08:49 AM

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Interesting new IS6 historical note!

 

https://yuripasholok...m/12826417.html



qpranger #15 Posted 07 July 2020 - 09:04 AM

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View Postrush0620, on 07 July 2020 - 10:49 AM, said:

Interesting new IS6 historical note!

 

https://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/12826417.html

 

Wargaming emphasizing historical accuracy.

Whatever next, bees deciding to boycott honey?



rush0620 #16 Posted 07 July 2020 - 09:18 AM

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View Postqpranger, on 07 July 2020 - 08:04 AM, said:

 

Wargaming emphasizing historical accuracy.

Whatever next, bees deciding to boycott honey?


Main problem the old and new 122mm D30 tier 6 gun not tier 8. Old KV 1S have 175 pen, old time good and enough pen at tier 6 and tier 7 and not tier 8 and not tier 9. Murazor the old balance designer total kill the balance. Murazor has since been kicked out of the WG and no one has repaired the damage he has caused.

 

Sorry bad english!


Edited by rush0620, 07 July 2020 - 09:20 AM.


rush0620 #17 Posted 07 July 2020 - 09:36 AM

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And the historical accuracy 122mm D25T same as the 122mm D30!

 

Watch the 122mm armor piercing BR 471 the D25T at 1000m! historical accuracy...

08:52 Added after 15 minute

122mm D25T at 100m 196 mm pen, and 100mm D10T 208mm at 100m historical accuracy

 


Edited by rush0620, 07 July 2020 - 12:03 PM.


Robbie_T #18 Posted 09 July 2020 - 05:08 AM

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What people dont understand for that preff MM you lose health pen armor ect. vs normal premiums

So it wont be as good as a normal premium..what is logical.....

+they are tank concepts when people most people in this game had a iq above double digits.

(that you wont be the spear point in a Is6 but the second heavy.....so let the prem tier 8 or normal 9 use there armor (and bounce enmy shot...and than you come out and fire(and if you cant pen you can track the enemy)

IF you are Is6 in a tier 8 or worse  tier 9matchup and playing it like spearpoint you gonna be outmatched.

Excpet if its a 1 vs 1 against a tier 7 than everything above can go out of the window and slay him!

 

 


Edited by Robbie_T, 09 July 2020 - 05:09 AM.


rush0620 #19 Posted 09 July 2020 - 06:04 AM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 09 July 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

What people dont understand for that preff MM you lose health pen armor ect. vs normal premiums

So it wont be as good as a normal premium..what is logical.....

+they are tank concepts when people most people in this game had a iq above double digits.

(that you wont be the spear point in a Is6 but the second heavy.....so let the prem tier 8 or normal 9 use there armor (and bounce enmy shot...and than you come out and fire(and if you cant pen you can track the enemy)

IF you are Is6 in a tier 8 or worse  tier 9matchup and playing it like spearpoint you gonna be outmatched.

Excpet if its a 1 vs 1 against a tier 7 than everything above can go out of the window and slay him!

 

 

 

Look at this and you will understand what we are talking about: http://wotreplays.eu/site/download/5428948






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