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Italian medium changes...


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Dr_Badthur #1 Posted 11 July 2020 - 03:59 PM

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... just why? Who asked for this? Aside from maybe your average potato who races to the forum as soon as he gets killed by a new tank with an autoloader, claiming it's OP, game-breaking etc.

Personally I'm not a fan of the T10 (mainly due to me disliking T10 in general), but I like the T9 and love the [standard] T8. I'm not going to bother comparing the tanks to same-tier autoloaders, as anyone with a brain knows that a flat 10% increase to reload time is a huge nerf, and that isn't the only nerf, it's just the biggest one.

 

Regardless of liking or disliking them, I never felt they were too powerful, their DPM have always been their main balancing factor (aside from obviously armour) since their introduction. Now they go and nerf them? The tanks aren't even overperforming statistically. Playing against Italian meds, I never really felt too threatened, it's generally quite easy to bully them simply because their DPM is already bad. 

The still relatively new auto-reloading mechanic offers something new to keep players interested in the game, now they're just giving reasons to not bother grinding the tanks. 

 

I haven't even touched on the fact that they are also directly nerfing the Progetto 46 with this. Personally I don't have a huge issue with this, as I do think it's too strong, but it's still going to create a sh#tstorm regardless. Remember the last time WG wanted to nerf premium tanks? Yeah, didn't go down so well. 

Solution to this is of course obvious, increase the reload of the tanks by 10% while still allowing them to use rammers.

 

The Progetto 46's closest competitor for the spot of best T8 med is, IMO, the T-44-100. If these changes go live, it will have 23% better DPM than the Progetto 46 (1877 vs 2317, only added rammer). Don't know about any of you but for me there would no longer be any competition.

 

All in all, more dumb, un-needed changes. 


Edited by Dr_Badthur, 11 July 2020 - 04:02 PM.


DaniulSims #2 Posted 11 July 2020 - 04:02 PM

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Everyone complaining about a relatively minor DPM nerf while conveniently forgetting the convenience of having backup shots after firing a magazine.

iraqxlol #3 Posted 11 July 2020 - 04:04 PM

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These topics are getting out hand! This is the 4th topic today!

Edited by iraqxlol, 11 July 2020 - 04:04 PM.


OniichanSenpai #4 Posted 11 July 2020 - 04:06 PM

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View PostDaniulSims, on 11 July 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

Everyone complaining about a relatively minor DPM nerf while conveniently forgetting the convenience of having backup shots after firing a magazine.

 

Backup shots with 1200 DPM you mean? Did you even play them, like ever?



Dr_Badthur #5 Posted 11 July 2020 - 04:08 PM

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View PostDaniulSims, on 11 July 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

Everyone complaining about a relatively minor DPM nerf while conveniently forgetting the convenience of having backup shots after firing a magazine.

 

Yes, clearly I forgot about it, silly me.

If 10% is so minor, why does everyone run rammer on all of their tanks? 

 

From checking your profile, you have no games played in tanks with auto-reloaders. If you have, you would know that burning more than your first shot severely hampers your already poor DPM. Again, with this nerf, that will become even more noticeable. Which is something you would know, if you had played the tanks, instead of just assuming.


Edited by Dr_Badthur, 11 July 2020 - 04:10 PM.


DaniulSims #6 Posted 11 July 2020 - 04:17 PM

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View PostDr_Badthur, on 11 July 2020 - 05:08 PM, said:

 

Yes, clearly I forgot about it, silly me.

If 10% is so minor, why does everyone run rammer on all of their tanks? 

 

From checking your profile, you have no games played in tanks with auto-reloaders. If you have, you would know that burning more than your first shot severely hampers your already poor DPM. Again, with this nerf, that will become even more noticeable. Which is something you would know, if you had played the tanks, instead of just assuming.

Since you've taken the time to check my profile, you'd know I've played a fair few autoloaders too.

 

With that said, Italian tanks were never conceptually meant to compete for DPM - their whole idea was and should be to have a rather subpar DPM with all of their shots left unfired, while being able to have a mini autoloader burst, without the 30+ seconds reload for the chance and another shot or having to reload the whole magazine for having fired 1/3 of it.

 

The gun rammer should've never been a thing in the first place - and from now on, instead of being normal mediums that can burst you down if you're low enough, they will actually need planning ahead of time, like it should've always been.



shikaka9 #7 Posted 11 July 2020 - 05:09 PM

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they had their time, like italo disco... back to rock'n'rasha

LethalWalou #8 Posted 11 July 2020 - 05:10 PM

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View PostDr_Badthur, on 11 July 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

If 10% is so minor, why does everyone run rammer on all of their tanks? 

 

That's easy to answer, because there is only 4 realistic choices of equipments to have on tanks. (rammer, vents, optics and vertstabs) Rammer obviously is one of the top 3 choices almost always and is thus used.

 

The tanks are supposed to be the middle ground between single shots and autoloaders. They aren't meant to compete in DPM with single shot tanks because they have that back up clip to be the autoloader if needed. DPM also isn't even that important anyways and since the intra clip reload wasn't changed, effectively nothing gets changed much. 10% DPM nerf isn't going to bring down the average damage of the tank by 10% which could easily be what you people think will happen based on the amount of complaining about the changes...



FatigueGalaxy #9 Posted 11 July 2020 - 07:35 PM

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View PostDr_Badthur, on 11 July 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Solution to this is of course obvious, increase the reload of the tanks by 10% while still allowing them to use rammers.

 

Solution to get sued maybe...

They way they are doing it, they aren't changing the characteristics of the tank - they are still the same. When you are buying a tank there is nowhere stated what equipment you can fit in it. It's something directly related to gameplay and has nothing to do with using your credit card (in other words: rammer or the ability to mount is not a part of the bundle with the tank).

In some way, this a loophole to nerf a premium tank. Progetto remains unchanged, but they altered gameplay mechanic to make it weaker. Asking for a refund is rather silly and baseless. I mean, there were other gameplay mechanic changes that affected premium tanks even more but nobody was asking for refunds... For an example, the ability to flip a tank impacted premiums light heavily, yet nobody sued WG for it...



gunslingerXXX #10 Posted 11 July 2020 - 07:41 PM

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Can wi pin the spagetto song mods? 

 

Also, since I'm here now I might as well add to the thread that I don't like the nerf, especially since I've almost researched the Standard B.



moe77 #11 Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:53 PM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 11 July 2020 - 07:35 PM, said:

When you are buying a tank there is nowhere stated what equipment you can fit in it. It's something directly related to gameplay and has nothing to do with using your credit card (in other words: rammer or the ability to mount is not a part of the bundle with the tank).

In some way, this a loophole to nerf a premium tank. Progetto remains unchanged, but they altered gameplay mechanic to make it weaker. Asking for a refund is rather silly and baseless. I mean, there were other gameplay mechanic changes that affected premium tanks even more but nobody was asking for refunds... For an example, the ability to flip a tank impacted premiums light heavily, yet nobody sued WG for it...

 

Physics impacted every tank, this only impacts a select few tanks so that's not a good comparison to draw imo.

And talking of the 'nowhere stated what equipment' etc., maybe have a look at this video that was released to explain the Progetto 46.

 



LethalWalou #12 Posted 13 July 2020 - 05:00 PM

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View Postmoe77, on 13 July 2020 - 03:53 PM, said:

 

Physics impacted every tank, this only impacts a select few tanks so that's not a good comparison to draw imo.

And talking of the 'nowhere stated what equipment' etc., maybe have a look at this video that was released to explain the Progetto 46.

 

 

Does it state anything about the rammer when you purchase the vehicle? Nope.



Spurtung #13 Posted 13 July 2020 - 05:02 PM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 11 July 2020 - 07:35 PM, said:

Solution to get sued maybe...

They way they are doing it, they aren't changing the characteristics of the tank - they are still the same. When you are buying a tank there is nowhere stated what equipment you can fit in it. It's something directly related to gameplay and has nothing to do with using your credit card (in other words: rammer or the ability to mount is not a part of the bundle with the tank).

In some way, this a loophole to nerf a premium tank. Progetto remains unchanged, but they altered gameplay mechanic to make it weaker. Asking for a refund is rather silly and baseless. I mean, there were other gameplay mechanic changes that affected premium tanks even more but nobody was asking for refunds... For an example, the ability to flip a tank impacted premiums light heavily, yet nobody sued WG for it...

 

Except...when you directly promote it.

 

Just press play and watch for about 25s:

 

 

Incidentally, there's also this:

 


Edited by Spurtung, 13 July 2020 - 05:08 PM.


Kdingo #14 Posted 13 July 2020 - 05:10 PM

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View PostDr_Badthur, on 11 July 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

All in all, more dumb, un-needed changes. 

 

Actually no, more of those kinda changes are necessary. All premium/reward tanks that are better then tech tree tanks need to be brought in line, balanced etc. and those worse need to be buffed to become use able.

The only dumb, un-needed change would be if this is a one trick pony just hitting spaghetties.

Just pumping out tank after tank with the "better then tech tree tank" mindset is just bad game development.


Edited by Kdingo, 13 July 2020 - 05:10 PM.


ZlatanArKung #15 Posted 13 July 2020 - 06:07 PM

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The tanks are just plain to strong, which can be seen by their popularity.

no_skill_bob #16 Posted 14 July 2020 - 06:17 AM

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They made a mistake, when introducing italian meds, they should never had a gun rammer in the first place, is3a has autoreloder, but it never had rammer, as it should be with any autoloading tank. Until they get nerfed, tell me why should anyone bother playing tvp, bc 25t over spaghetti 65? Its just better in every way than both of them, it really has no downsides, only blind people would not notice, that spaghetti 65 is just plain better than pretty much any other tier 10 med, even total bots deal a decent amount of dmg in them. Avg players having 5k+ games in spaghetti is nothing out of ordinary, because its way too easy to get good results in it.

Noivilbo #17 Posted 14 July 2020 - 08:14 AM

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Progetto changes are unnecessary! There are so many tanks that are just pure OP but they don't get changed because they are russian tanks. This is a russian game mate, look elsewhere for proper balance 

 

 

 


Marlekin #18 Posted 14 July 2020 - 08:59 AM

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In this guys humble opinion, alot of premium are doing better than the free techtree tanks. This game stinks of pay2win. I hope the progett nerf is just a first step. WG shouldnt be scared of refund tickets. 

Edited by Marlekin, 14 July 2020 - 09:00 AM.


ignaskarate #19 Posted 14 July 2020 - 11:53 AM

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View Postno_skill_bob, on 14 July 2020 - 05:17 AM, said:

They made a mistake, when introducing italian meds, they should never had a gun rammer in the first place, is3a has autoreloder, but it never had rammer, as it should be with any autoloading tank. Until they get nerfed, tell me why should anyone bother playing tvp, bc 25t over spaghetti 65? Its just better in every way than both of them, it really has no downsides, only blind people would not notice, that spaghetti 65 is just plain better than pretty much any other tier 10 med, even total bots deal a decent amount of dmg in them. Avg players having 5k+ games in spaghetti is nothing out of ordinary, because its way too easy to get good results in it.


why progeto needs to nerf and stb dont needs nerf, if your stats is much better in stb?



Persekettu #20 Posted 14 July 2020 - 11:55 AM

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View PostDr_Badthur, on 11 July 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

The Progetto 46's closest competitor for the spot of best T8 med is, IMO, the T-44-100. If these changes go live, it will have 23% better DPM than the Progetto 46 (1877 vs 2317, only added rammer). Don't know about any of you but for me there would no longer be any competition.

 

Surely you are not suggesting WG is using this opportunity to make Russian medium the best tier 8 premium medium? Because that suuuurrrrely would be a like a total coincidence :hiding:

 

BTW Polish tech tree will get a T-44-100 clone as tier 8 medium premium... well, that also must be a coincidence!

 

I mean WG just nerfing the best tier 8 medium to sell upcoming premium tanks? Nah not possible :bajan:


Edited by TankkiPoju, 14 July 2020 - 11:59 AM.





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